What is at the root of the state budget impasse between the Oklahoma House and Senate?

The leader of the Oklahoma Senate says he had a "productive meeting" with his counterpart in the House of Representatives, but added the Senate would continue to hold off on hearing budget bills from the House until House leaders provided the full details of their budget plan.

Speaking to the press Thursday, Senate President Pro Tempore Greg Treat repeated his call for budget transparency in the Legislature and said the Senate wouldn't hear budget bills until the House provided its budget information. But Treat added he met that morning with House Speaker Charles McCall and said the pair "had a very good, very direct conversation."

"I appreciate him coming over here to the Senate and sharing the perspective of the House with me today," said Treat, R-Oklahoma City. "We still have the same position and I articulated it to him very clearly that until we get their numbers we can't move forward on any of the House appropriations bills, because it would undercut our transparency initiative that we're absolutely committed to."

Since Wednesday, both houses of the Legislature have been at an impasse over the budget. Treat emphasized on Wednesday his intentions, saying, "We're not going to blink."

Treat said House leaders promised to supply budget numbers to the Senate by Wednesday. When the information didn't arrive by the deadline, Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Roger Thompson, R-Okemah, adjourned the Senate's second budget hearing of the day after speaking for about four minutes about the issue. He said the Senate would not hear any House appropriations bills until the full numbers were provided.

“The people of Oklahoma want transparency,” Thompson said. “The Senate will continue to lead with transparency, and we will not have discussions behind closed doors. We will continue to shine light on the entire process.

"We deal with real money here, not Monopoly money."

McCall, who met with reporters about an hour after Treat did so Thursday, said it was a "nice" meeting but noted he did not hear from Treat before the Senate leader held an impromptu news conference shortly after Thompson adjourned the Senate budget meeting.

"What I've mainly tried to convey to the Pro Tem is that if they think there is a problem with negotiations, or communication, just reach out," McCall said. "Shoot me a text or a phone call. I'm always available. ... I think communication could be better, and I suggested that to him. I think that some of the issues that he expressed yesterday could have easily been resolved with a phone call."

The Senate passed its budget resolution on March 18, part of a new budget transparency initiative led by Treat. A key feature of the Senate budget process is so-called "live" spreadsheets, which are updated as new spending bills are passed, Thompson said.

From the start of the process, Treat insisted the Senate budget be hammered out in open committee meetings. He promised that once the Senate received the House proposals and began discussing them, the Senate would also display the House budget numbers during open meetings.

The House's lack of information, Thompson said, makes the budget process dark. On Wednesday, Treat suggested the House not wanting to make its budget plan public at this time as a possible reason for the delay.

'The House is going to continue to be the House'

House Appropriations and Budget Committee Chairman Kevin Wallace, R-Wellston, said the problem stems from what he said is a $20 million error in the FY 2024 budget involving funding for the Oklahoma State Department of Education. When the Legislature passed the 2024 budget, pay raises for teachers in Oklahoma's public schools were included. For the handful of school districts that don't receive funding for teacher pay from the state ― "off the formula," in Capitol parlance ― the Legislature planned to reimburse them with funding for the mandate and instructed the agency to do so from the same pot of money used to pay on-the-formula schools.

Wallace and other House members have questioned the legality of that, saying there needed to be a special provision made ― likely a supplemental funding bill. Treat said the Senate sent over another bill to try and rectify the issue, but the House rejected that idea. McCall said he suggested to Treat they work on a bill to be considered in a "JCAB," or joint committee on appropriations and budget, to rectify the situation. McCall said he'd send Treat suggested language for the bill early next week.

"I asked them for a solution for the FY 2024 budget before we do FY 2025," Wallace said. "We need a $20 million supplement."

McCall echoed that refrain Thursday and disputed Thompson's assertion that Wallace had refused to send him the House budget spreadsheets.

"The House is going to continue to be the House," McCall said. "It's going to run its processes. We are going to respect the Senate and what they do internally ... but the House will do its own processes."

More: Tax cuts and flat budgets: What's next for lawmakers in Oklahoma's big budget debate

Wallace also said he had no issue with the House budget numbers, once they're given to the Senate, being displayed during a Senate meeting.

"I think most issues that one chamber believes are going on ... in the other chamber, they're usually not real issues," McCall said. "They're usually very easily handled with a phone call."

McCall also said the House still is seeking information from the Senate regarding the Senate's budget proposal.

"The Senate passed a (budget) resolution but it doesn't balance with the bills that they sent to the House," McCall said. "In terms of sheets, we don't even have a sheet from the Senate that balances yet. There's a lot to discuss and we're happy to have those discussions."

Late Wednesday afternoon, Senate Minority Leader Kay Floyd, D-Oklahoma City, issued a statement in support of Thompson and Treat.

“The Senate has employed a new, transparent budget process this session to ensure members and the public have access to all the information, facts and figures in preparing a balanced budget," Floyd said. "Senate Democrats remain committed to promoting transparency and greater accountability on behalf of the citizens of Oklahoma and to finding bipartisan solutions to the real challenges facing our state."

This article originally appeared on Oklahoman: Senate budget transparency initiative runs into House roadblock