Vince Gilligan on the Classic TV Episodes That Inspired 'Breaking Bad' and 'Better Call Saul'
Is Jimmy McGill the grandson of Ralph Kramden? Are the tightly-plotted storylines of Breaking Bad a nod to the gut-punch twists of The Twilight Zone? Fans will get some serious insight into those questions when Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and Battle Creek creator Vince Gilligan shares four hours of his favorite classic TV episodes during Vince Gilligan’s Island of MeTV special on MeTV this Sunday, April 5.
Gilligan — who, along with Saul star Bob Odenkirk, will introduce and chat about the episodes throughout the special programming block — tells Yahoo TV the episodes he’s chosen represent a “partial peek” at what inspired his own storytelling.
“I was inspired by classic movies and wonderful novels, as well,” Gilligan says. “As far as television goes, I watched quite a bit of it growing up, probably too much. I watched a lot of classic TV shows. It’s a real treat to be able to revisit them on MeTV.”
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Too much TV? Considering the current (Breaking Bad) and future (Better Call Saul) classics he’s created…
“Well, I guess it helped me in good stance in my career,” Gilligan says with a laugh. “Every now and then, being the wistful personality that I am, I think, ‘Man, I should have gotten out in the backyard and gotten a little more sun back then, actually gone on dates in high school. I should have watched a little less TV and lived a little more life.’ It’s just one of those things I guess. Certainly you are correct; I can’t complain too much because the TV I watched apparently helped me prepare for my career.”
Here, Gilligan breaks down why he chose each episode of his MeTV special:
The Twilight Zone, “Nervous Man in a Four Dollar Room”
The Twilight Zone, “The Grave”
In “Nervous Man in a Four Dollar Room,” one of the first things that jumps out is Joe Mantell’s “You talkin’ to me?” line, which obviously predates DeNiro’s Taxi Driver line.
I think sometimes great minds think alike. I wouldn’t assume that Paul Schrader had seen that episode. Although maybe he did. Maybe it inspired him on some level, but I think sometimes great minds think alike. All I know for sure is that it’s a great example of Rod Serling’s writing, and great acting by Joe Mantell, who is a wonderful and underrated actor.
What about this particular episode resonates with you as a storyteller?
I am impressed with the economy of this episode. I’m not an expert on The Twilight Zone, but I would guess that this was one of the episodes that came from the studio and the network beating up on Rod Serling, saying “You’re spending too much money, and you’ve got to get back on budget.”
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This is very much a bottle episode, and bottle episodes are typically done when a TV show is over-budget and over-scheduled. It’s not easy to do a really good, effective, gripping bottle episode. It’s hard to make an episode that works when it feels a bit claustrophobic, but the claustrophobic feeling in this particular episode works well, and, in fact, helps make it better: the writing, the acting, and the directing. All contribute to make something of very seemingly modest means very effective and very cinematic.
Can we assume this was an inspiration for you with “Fly,” the classic bottle episode of Breaking Bad?
[Laughs.] Well, I can tell you for sure we were getting beat up on by our studio. We were way over budget that year, and we had to do something. Maybe somewhere in the back of my mind, when we were coming up with that idea, I was thinking about The Twilight Zone.
Having said that, that episode of Breaking Bad was very much written by a couple of my writers, Moira Walley-Beckett and Sam Catlin. Unfortunately, I know for a fact Sam is not a Twilight Zone fan. I tried to get him hooked… I lent him my DVD box set of every episode of The Twilight Zone, and he got through one and a half of them before he gave up. I was very disappointed. Other than that huge flaw in his personality, he’s a good guy and a great writer.
The other Twilight Zone episode you choose, “The Grave”: My favorite is “Time Enough at Last,” and I watch it a couple of times a year. Obviously, I know what’s going to happen, but it still has that gut punch at the end. We’ve seen contemporary shows with great writing and great acting, but these black-and-white episodes with simple stories still pack that punch. Why do you think they’re still so powerful?
I think it’s great classic storytelling. You are right: There is something special about The Twilight Zone, clearly, because if all that mattered about The Twilight Zone was the twist ending, we would only watch them once. But typically, fans of The Twilight Zone — and there were many of them like me who were born years after the show ended — love the show for the writing, and the acting, and the directing. In the very best episodes, there’s something about these stories and these characters and the humanity of the series that is risky. It really doesn’t matter to a fan like me, and to a great many fans, that you know what the ending is; you still enjoy it.
The one you just mentioned, the Burgess Meredith episode, [is] probably one of my favorites, too. I chose not to have any really well-known episodes in this batch on MeTV, for the simple reason that I figure everybody already knew them. I wanted to introduce folks to a couple of episodes that were deeper cut, so to speak. [“Time Enough at Last”] is just absolutely wonderful. I’ve seen it probably twenty times. I’ll probably see it, if I’m lucky, another twenty or thirty times.
The Honeymooners, “Better Living Through Television”
What do you love about this Honeymooners episode?
I just love The Honeymooners, period. I could have picked any episode of The Honeymooners. There’s something about the show; even though I know how each one of them plays out in the end, I can watch them over and over and over again. It’s because, I guess in the simplest terms, I love Ralph Kramden and I love Ed Norton, and their wives. They’re fun to revisit over and over again, and spend a half hour in that god-awful kitchen. It’s fun to visit Ralph Kramden and Alice Kramden… they’re just fun to hang around with.
That particular episode, with the “chef of the future” television commercial, just cracks me up every time. Ed Norton… these guys together were so fantastic. Jackie Gleason and Art Carney owe a debt to Laurel and Hardy, for sure. The Honeymooners, Kramden and Norton, they go together like peanut butter and chocolate.
Do you think there’s a bit of Ralph Kramden in Jimmy McGill? Jimmy’s persistence, even in the face of some humiliations and regular indignities, is one of the reasons we find him so charming, and that’s very true of Ralph as well.
I think you’re exactly right. I think there’s a bit of Ralph Kramden in Jimmy — his “never say die” attitude and his gift of gab. Certainly Sgt. Bilko as well. There’s a lot of Sgt. Bilko in Saul Goodman. And in Jimmy McGill as well. Jimmy McGill, soon to turn himself into Saul Goodman. He’s a character that reminds us in the writers’ room a little bit of Ralph Kramden, a little bit of Sgt. Bilko, The Phil Silvers Show. There’s a lot of rascal, lovable rascal, in Jimmy McGill.
Taxi, “Cooking for Two”
The thing that’s most striking in this episode is just how fascinating Christopher Lloyd’s performance is. It feels very contemporary.
Oh yeah. That whole cast, that whole ensemble… I’ve been catching up with Taxi on MeTV in the last year or so. As a show, it really really holds up. Unfortunately, I can’t say that about every old series that I’ve watched. Some series, which I won’t mention by name, do not hold up quite as well as that one. Taxi is even better than I remember it. It really is a classic.
Christopher Lloyd is great in that episode. There wasn’t a weak link. That episode, in particular, is one that I mention quite often in the writers’ room because of this amazing run of dialogue at the end of it, where Danny DeVito’s character, Louie De Palma, is trying to figure out the perfect amount of money with which to bilk Jim Ignatowski’s father. It’s just very, very impressive — such a great run, and so much fun. And that episode was co-written by Sam Simon, who just passed away. He was a wonderful writer on Taxi and later on The Simpsons… a brilliant writer.
Columbo, “Murder Under Glass”
Are you a big Columbo fan in general, or is this a special episode?
My girlfriend Holly and I love Columbo. I remember one time I was at the old Gardens of London restaurant that I love so much, which is now closed, but Holly and I look across the room, and there’s Peter Falk. This was 12, 15 years ago, something like that. I said, “Oh my God, it’s Columbo. It’s Peter Falk.” I wanted so badly to go say hi to him, and tell him how much I love his work. I didn’t quite have the courage to do it.
What a treasure he was, and what a great show Columbo was. Just outstandingly good. The character… that’s my definition of classic TV, TV that defines a time period of American television. There are a lot of classics in British TV as well, but classic American TV defines a time in the industry… it also includes shows that are so good and contain such wonderful characters and are filled with such excellent writing and directing and storytelling that you can watch them over and over again. Like with The Twilight Zone, knowing the ending of any particular Columbo, knowing how he’s going to solve the crime, I still love watching them over and over again.
How does it feel to know that your shows are going to be on MeTV someday?
As they say, from your mouth to God’s ear. I hope that will be the case. I’d love for my work to be part of that pantheon, for sure. It’s hard to say when you’re in the midst of anything, or even a couple years after, it’s hard to say what kind of shelf life anything will have. I sure hope you’re right. Best I can say to that: I hope you’re right. That would make me feel really proud.
Vince Gilligan’s Island of MeTV airs Sunday, April 5 at 6 p.m. on MeTV.
