Tory Burch Interviews Joe Zee About His New Book, Styling Mariah Carey’s ‘Honey’ Video & Pigs in a Blanket

On Tuesday, Yahoo’s Style’s editor in chief Joe Zee celebrated the release of his first book, That’s What Fashion Is, at the new Tory Burch Sport shop in Manhattan’s Nolita neighborhood. Surrounded by tennis whites and champagne, set to the tune of Taryn Manning’s DJ skills, guests like Linda Wells, June Ambrose, Arthur Elgort, and Brandon Maxwell congratulated Zee on the delightful read full of anecdotes, industry tips, and general life advice. Below, Burch asks Zee about his latest accomplishment.

Tory Burch: Joe, Congratulations!

Joe Zee: Oh my gosh, thank you for doing this! I am so excited – all week, this is all I’ve been looking forward to.

I’ve been reading it all day, I’m super impressed; there are amazing tips. How did it come about?

When the publisher asked me about doing a book, the last thing I wanted to do was a picture book. there are so many picture books for fashion out there, which isn’t a bad thing, it’s just not what I wanted to do. My biggest inspiration for this was actually Bossy Pants by Tina Fey. I love that book, and I love how she tells normal stories of everyday life in her world, but through the lens and filter of something that’s kind of funny. And she can see it from a perspective that was removed and looking down at it and be like, “Oh, entertainment is kind of silly, quirky and ridiculous, but kind of fun!” Well, so is fashion! I wanted to tell stories like that.

There are so many great anecdotes. I mean, anecdote after anecdote. I think people just take notes and write them down. What were some of your favorite shoots?

Oh my god, there are so many! I mean, I’ve been posting them all week as a countdown to the book and people are like, “You styled the Mariah Carey ‘Honey’ video? You styled the Tom Ford Hollywood issue for Vanity Fair? You styled the Madonna and Missy Elliott Gap commercial?” There are just so many different things that I’ve done that have been really fun. All photo shoots come with a story. People just see the picture, but I see everything that happens.

You see the full picture.

Yeah, I see everything that happened leading up to that picture.

So, what was the worst shoot, the one that went horribly wrong? Everyone knows you’re an incredibly talented stylist, but what is the one that you think was the worst shoot of your life?

Well, I put it in there. I did not even identify the Oscar winner, but I was at Allure, so I was really just still an assistant and Linda [Wells] had given me a chance to do my own shoot. It was one picture, and the actress had just won an Oscar. It was with Michael Thompson at the time, and when we got there she hated every piece of clothing—every shoe, every piece of jewelry. She hated the lighting; she was so difficult. I was like, “I don’t think I’m supposed to be a stylist, I don’t think I’m ever gonna get through this! This is the most nauseating experience.” There was a pit in my stomach, but I never saw her again. I don’t know if she liked it or didn’t like it in the end, but you know what? The day was done and I learned a lot.

One thing I read in your book, that I’ve had to take time learning, is the art of saying no. I would love to hear your take on that, because I think it helps a lot of people once they can master that.

I know, and I never said no for a long, long time and I realize it isn’t selfish to say no. Sometimes, it’s better for the person who’s asking for you to say no than to say yes.

It’s hard!

It is hard! But I think it’s also like eating a bag of potato chips. The first time you do it is hard, and then it gets easier and easier and then you just do it in droves. I think when you start to realize that—that saying no is not a selfish thing—it’s actually better for the person asking in the long run.

For sure.

You realize, “OK! That person will thank me for it later.”

One thing I was thinking about you on the way down here was entrepreneurship, and you’re the ultimate entrepreneur, constantly reinventing yourself. What is some of the advice you can give other entrepreneurs?

Oh, gosh! I was thinking about that the other day because someone asked how I started. When I was six, I dragged a desk from my bedroom to my living room and I would give style advice to my brother and sister and I would charge them a dime. I thought, ‘Wow! I already turned this into a business!’ I was trying to make money, and yes I made 30 cents, but I was trying to make it a business and I think entrepreneurship really comes from an idea of necessity and passion. I always say, don’t do something because you want to make money from it, do it because you love it. This is something you would be doing today, if you absolutely never made money from it.

It’s about passion.

Once you start there, from a place where you love what you do, all of the other stuff will fall into place. But also, devise something out of necessity. I think I was talking to someone today and they were saying, ‘I invented that because I really needed it, I didn’t have anything that I could use for that.’ I realized that that’s what you do. You don’t sit down and say, ‘I’m going to invent that to make millions.’ It almost never really happens. You need to devise that thing. You make clothes because you want to wear them. I create this website because I want to read it. Not because I was like, ‘I just want to make money from it.’ It never happens.

What’s the best advice you’ve ever gotten?

Devise a path for yourself, and then throw it out the window. I never understood what that really meant, but I got it later on in life. To devise a path means you’re focused enough to know what you’re doing and to see an end goal, but then realize that along the way, that end goal may take a lot of detours to get to. Just follow those detours and be okay with it. I realized that that makes sense to me: Have a path, but discard it. You know where you’re going, but also take all the twists and turns along the way.

I love that. I mean, one thing I love about you is how innovative you are in the digital space and how that affects our industry and how it’s changing. I’d love to hear a little bit more about that.

The great thing about when we got to Yahoo is that we could launch a site completely in our vision. We put out the things that we love, that we’re proud of. We didn’t walk into Yahoo Style and have to continue the tradition of a site that existed for 30 years before us. It was nothing—it wasn’t even the same name. It was called Yahoo Fashion and I went to Marissa and changed it to Yahoo Style because I feel like fashion today is really about the way we live our life, more than just dresses and coats and belts. We changed the name just like that and we created it just like that.

I think it’s a great change. That’s entrepreneurship in a way – starting from scratch and being courageous enough to make change. What have you learned there?

I always say I’m an omni-media person. Everyone always says to me, ‘Oh, now you’re digital and not print.’ Well, I’m digital because I work on websites, I’m print because I have a book, and I’m broadcast because I’m on TV. I’m sort of just creating content in every possible channel. However you access that content, you’ll be able to find it in the way that you want to.

It really is about the content and I love that. Everyone is in this position right now and you’re probably ahead of the game, thinking, ‘Is print and advertising relevant, is digital taking over?’ But I think there’s room for both.

I think there’s room for both, too. If you can create a way to do something that reaches people, then do that. Today, people don’t care. No one sits around and says, ‘I must get my content digitally, I must only get my content on broadcast.’ If it’s really good content, it will find its way to you. One of our girls was watching the entire season of Orange Is the New Black on her phone. I was like, 'On your PHONE?’ To me, that you just watched 13 or 22 episodes of something on your phone, it means you just accessed content that way because that’s all you care about and that’s what you know. People don’t care that the show was on Netflix or for TV or anything. They just care that they can get it on their phone. They care that they can read a story from the New Yorker online. I love that it doesn’t matter where the content is; if it’s good, they’ll find it.

But you’re innovative because you were one of the early adopters of this. I’m so impressed with that because I feel like we were, to a certain extent, too. We launched e-commerce 11 years ago.

And you also launched at a contemporary price point that wasn’t the norm. Everyone wanted to be a designer price point.

We went the other way. I feel like you’re doing that and I want to know what you think is next.

In terms of media, I think it’s going to be a merge of it all. At one point, we’re going to see someone like Apple devise a dashboard and a television set that accesses everything in your life, so your phone becomes your remote control. So when you’re in your car, everything you need to access will be there and once you step out of your car, it goes to your phone, then it goes from your phone into your house. The song you were listening to in your car will start playing in your home as soon as you walk in, it will be accessed in a way where your life continues all the time nonstop and you’re always plugged in. We’re getting to a point where your life will be accessed 24/7 in that very sort of techie way and we need to be apart of that, instead of fighting it. I don’t know if they’re doing this, I’m just making it up. But I feel like something like Apple TV – It’s a television set, but it’s also a gateway to your home, where you’re going to be able to control lights and heating systems and security and all your programming and computers and your shopping all through this television set, and it will be on your dashboard once you get in the car, your phone will be a remote control, you’ll be able to connect in every way that you want. I think that’s not far off.

Speaking of TV, you have your new show and I’m super excited to see it because I keep hearing people walking by you saying, “I saw that today, you were amazing!” So, congratulations! How excited are you, what does that mean for you?

It’s so exciting! First of all, it’s a lot of work. We film a lot in dealing with these guys as well, but it’s fun. We’re reaching a whole new audience and I never realized the power of television, but every single day, you’re in somebody’s living room. Real time, my social media is on fire and I love having people having that conversation with me. I talk to people on social media and now it is all the time.

On the show, you’re really authentic and I think that’s the key. When you have a show, people want to see that authenticity, people want to see a window into your fabulous life.

I’ve never not shared that. I’ve always pulled the curtain aside. I like people seeing that. I think that’s the one thing about fashion – people are so intimidated by it, but once you pull it apart, people are like, “oh! It’s not that scary!”

It’s not that scary. It’s a lot of work!

So much work!

I have one last question. If you were not in the fashion industry, what would you be doing right now?

I always say that I would probably be a chef, but I would probably be a caterer! I just like cooking and entertaining lots and lots of people all the time. I’m always like, I would be a chef because I would rather have a lot of people around. Good food, good conversation and a good time.

That’s a good topic for your show! If you were a caterer, what would you prepare?

Right now? Lots of finger foods to make sure everyone was well fed and having the best time ever.

I was made fun of for serving pigs in a blanket the other day.

I love pigs in a blanket! I was just going to say pigs in a blanket, but I was scared because it wasn’t chic!

So I’m really un-chic! My mom always served pigs in a blanket growing up and everyone loved it!

I love it and I’m by nature a herder, so I have to herd everybody together and make sure they’re having fun, so I think that’s what a caterer does.

Well Joe, congratulations on a wonderful book. I’m sure it’s going to be a huge success.

Thank you for hosting this, I love you so much!