Trans Actors and Hollywood Insiders Discuss the Complicated Reality of Trans Casting
When Jeffrey Tambor, star of Amazon's Transparent, accepted an Emmy for his role as Maura in the critically acclaimed series, he thanked Rhys Ernst and Zackary Drucker, the show's transgender script consultants and co-producers. Although Transparent had received some flack early on for Tambor's casting (He's a cisgender man - why not give the role to a trans woman?), it has since been praised as a shining example of how a series featuring trans characters should operate - namely, with trans people working at all levels of the show to ensure that it's realistic rather than stereotypical.
But Hollywood has some catching up to do. GLAAD's most recent Trans Images on TV report, which surveyed scripted shows airing in 2013, found that 46 percent of television episodes containing trans characters were considered defamatory, often presenting trans characters as punch lines. And that was an 8 percent improvement over 2012. In film, debate rages anew over the casting of cisgender actors in high-profile trans roles, like Eddie Redmayne playing trans pioneer Lili Elbe in The Danish Girl and Elle Fanning as a trans boy coming of age in About Ray.
In an effort to better understand and illuminate the challenges (and triumphs) of how transgender actors, roles, and behind-the-scenes talent are cast - and why it matters for influencing society's attitudes and policy off-screen - Cosmopolitan.com convened a panel of industry experts, including:
Alexandra Billings, trans actress on Amazon's Transparent
Billy Miller, Alexandra Billings's manager
Trace Lysette, trans actress on Starz's Blunt Talk and Transparent
Alex Newell, actor who played a trans female student, Unique, on Glee
Paul Hilepo, Laverne Cox's longtime agent
Rhys Ernst and Zackary Drucker, trans consultants and co-producers involved in casting, script consulting, and special projects on Transparent
Risa Bramon Garcia, veteran casting director whose credits include Masters of Sex and CSI: NY
The transgender community is "having a moment" in Hollywood, with Laverne Cox and Caitlyn Jenner and Jazz Jennings all starring on TV. Is that buzz translating to progress in casting trans talent?
Paul Hilepo (agent for Laverne Cox): I feel that it is. When Slumdog Millionaire came out, all of a sudden everyone wanted to cast an Indian actor in their projects. It's wonderful to see that phenomenon happen. You are more comfortable with that which you know.
Trace Lysette (trans actress on Blunt Talk and Transparent): It's two extremes: Either it will be a well thought-out leading role with a well-known cis actor - I don't want to name names, but you know the projects. Or it might be the other extreme: "Let's create a trans role because it's the trend." Lately I've noticed that castings have been blown wide open to everyone - "Let's just have every trans person across the land try out for this," whether you're an actor or not. On one hand, it's great because maybe people who weren't actors can discover a career that they didn't think was possible. On the other hand, it can be a little daunting for those of us who have studied our craft for years and are still trying to make a name for ourselves in Hollywood.
Alexandra Billings (trans actress on Transparent): We still live in a world that thinks Caitlyn Jenner is "it." They look at Caitlyn Jenner and go, "Oh, that's what a transgender person looks like." It's no one's fault. She's not a good or bad example of anything. It's just that she's one example. This heteronormative, white male privilege certainly follows Caitlyn around because that was most of her life, very publicly, for decades. I mean, my gosh, she was on the cover of a Wheaties box!
Alex Newell (actor who played a trans woman on Glee): This is going to sound shady but, right now, it's the hot ticket. It's "trending." It comes at a cost sometimes. It happened with blackface on television. We finally put black people on TV, they were the slaves or the help. Then it turned into, "Oh, well, this person can be a junkyard owner."
Rhys Ernst (trans consultant on Transparent): The thing I am fearful of is a trans fatigue happening before there's an opportunity for trans actors, trans writers, trans directors, trans producers, to actually get a foothold, and for the moment to pass before significant change is made in the industry. We need to give trans people exposure and experience, and let them work their way up the ladder in a more significant way.
Zackary Drucker (trans consultant on Transparent): I have concerns about trans actors being cast in roles that are being written by cis people entirely. I read a lot of pilots last season and they had trans characters just popping up and saying, "I'm trans. I'm trans. I'm trans. Genitals!" and then disappearing. Writers that are trans, consultants who are informing cis writers to help create more complex renderings of our lives, it all has to happen.
Risa Bramon Garcia (casting director): The good thing about buzz is that it will hopefully translate into roles that are created for trans actors or that are open to trans actors. I personally don't know a ton of trans actors, so I need to educate myself. Also, it's the responsibility of the trans community and any trans actor to make him or herself, or themselves, known. It's an interesting struggle that we're all going through. The good news is that there's a hunger to solve this.
Has the casting process for trans actors changed at all in recent years?
Billings (trans actress on Transparent): Absolutely. I can't tell you how many times I go into an audition, and the casting director is open and kind and treats me just like every other actress in the room. Twenty years ago, that was simply not true. There were times when I would go to auditions and have to come in a different entrance. They would say, "Come in the back and go up the stairs because we're painting." As I was leaving, I saw literally truckloads of actresses coming in and out of the front door.
Hilepo (agent for Laverne Cox): More projects are calling out for trans actors. There's a lot of worthy people out there and it's giving them inspiration that they can actually do this. Laverne cites Candis Cayne's appearance on Dirty Sexy Money as being the reason why she decided to come forward and stand in her power and say, "I'm an actress, I'm trans, and I want to achieve my dream of performing."
Trans roles, historically, have been punch lines, victims, or villains. Are trans roles changing and, if so, how?
Hilepo (agent for Laverne Cox): When Laverne and I were working together at the beginning, she wound up doing a Law & Order episode where she played a prostitute and then she did an episode of Bored to Death for HBO where she played a prostitute. Prostitutes are human beings. They have meaning behind their lives. Laverne has often said that, "I have to bring life and meaning to those stories whether they're a prostitute or a lawyer." Now the roles that are being filled are teachers or attorneys. Laverne was cast in this pilot for CBS as an attorney. It's wonderful to see.
Billy Miller (Billings's manager): The visibility [of the trans community] has opened the door. They're writing a transgender role and it's the person working next to you in the office who happens to be transgender as opposed to the hooker on the corner.
Lysette (trans actress on Blunt Talk and Transparent): Well, I play a sex worker on Blunt Talk. Thankfully, Jonathan Ames, the writer and executive producer, allowed Gisele, my character, to have some very human qualities and to have an emotional moment with Walter Blunt, the lead character (played by Patrick Stewart). We were the punch line, the prostitute, the victim, the crazy person for so long, and so we're just starting to finally see more complete, nuanced characters. We're taking baby steps.
Billings (trans actress on Transparent): I've known [Transparent creator] Jill [Soloway] for so long and made it very clear that I'm not going to do the fingersnappy girlfriendness thing. I mean, I love all that stuff. That's part of my history and part of my community. It's not something that interests me at this time in my life. I said, "This is how I dress. This is what I look like. I don't try to change my voice to sound like anything. This is how I walk. This is what I want people to see." And that's what they did.
There is ongoing debate over trans roles going to cis actors, as with Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl and Elle Fanning in About Ray. Where do you stand on the issue of casting cis actors in trans roles?
Lysette (trans actress on Blunt Talk and Transparent): I'm loving the fact that Hollywood is telling trans stories. I wish that they could be concerned with employing trans folk in those high-profile projects, because if you are telling our stories and you're making money off our narrative and you're winning awards off our journey, I feel it's only fair that you're incorporating us not only in front of the camera, but also behind. You need to at least be seeing trans actors in the casting process. If you're not, you're missing out on authenticity.
Hilepo (agent for Laverne Cox): I'll always skew on the side of "Give the trans roles to the trans actors." It's like casting an Indian actress to play a Middle Eastern role or a Hispanic actor to play an Italian role. You'll always get controversy on that.
Newell (actor who played a trans woman on Glee): I honestly never took the time to think of [my role on Glee] as anything other than a story that needed to be told. I earned that role. I came off the reality TV show [The Glee Project], where I fought tooth and nail to get on the show. I don't think of it as taking it from a trans person because that role was specifically written for me. I see both sides. Yes, there's someone in the world that says, "Alex, this role should have gone to someone else." When it was straight characters playing gay roles - and still to this day - it's like, "Why don't we just have a gay male or a gay female do it?" The argument could be, "Well, it's not always about that person's personal life, but who can convey that role the best?" It's all in how tastefully you do it. I don't think I got much of a backlash because people were so confused by who I am and whether I'm trans or not always comes up because I've created a gender fluidness, and androgyny, as my persona.
Billings (trans actress on Transparent): Everyone in the community is already angry about [The Danish Girl] and no one's even seen it yet. Our [transgender] community needs to take responsibility. We can't just point fingers. We need to improve ourselves artistically, and show casting directors and writers and creators of TV, film, and plays that we exist. On the other side of the table, the casting directors and writers and producers need to get braver. They need to make some more calls, go out and see more people. I'm certainly not saying everything's OK. It doesn't make me happy. Would I prefer that Fanning not had been cast [in About Ray]? Of course. Do I know a couple of trans male actors that can do that role? Yes. I do, actually. Do I know a couple of trans actors that are that famous to be able to bankroll a major film? No, and neither do you.
Garcia (casting director): The attempt has to be made in a big, big way. In our office, there's a role of a guy who's in a wheelchair and we were absolutely insistent that it had to be somebody who was in a wheelchair. In Glee, I think they got away with it by saying, "Well, [Glee actor Kevin McHale] has to get up and dance." It should be the best actor for the role, but you want to do everything humanly possible to have somebody whose experience is that, playing that role. If you hit the wall, then it has to be because it's not possible, not because you didn't really do everything you could to find it.
Ernst (trans consultant on Transparent): To me, the trans movement won't have achieved its goals if all trans roles are played by trans actors. It can be limiting. A lot of trans roles are written as transitions from one gender or another. Those roles are actually quite hard to cast with trans actors. If it's a transitioning male-to-female character that's presenting male for quite a long period of screen time, it would feel a little awkward to me to put a transitioned trans woman in man-drag for the sake of that role. That doesn't mean that every cisgender-led production should just automatically cast a cisgender actor without thinking about it. But trans access behind the camera is just as important, if not more so. If Jared Leto's role in Dallas Buyers Club was played by a trans woman, I would still not have liked that role, because that production didn't invest in trans issues and do the work behind the scenes to understand and appreciate a trans story.
How important is it to trans actors, and for the industry, that trans actors get cisgender roles? Is that a sign of true inclusion?
Miller (Billings's manager): My goal and my challenge in representing Alex is that I want her to do a role that has nothing to do with being transgender. She doesn't particularly care one way or another. But when I first met Alex, 12 or 13 years ago, how often did a specific transgender role happen? Once a season on ER, once a season on a Grey's Anatomy. How does Alex as a transgender woman make a living as an actor? You go out and you compete against cis women. I haven't been able to make it happen yet. I go to casting directors and I say, "Help me break down the door," and I get lots of support, but I don't get anybody opening the door. I think it's fear.
Billings (trans actress on Transparent): Well, he's right. In the late '80s, I auditioned for this very, very fancy theater in Chicago, which I won't name. I was a young actress and I was auditioning constantly. The third or fourth time auditioning there, the artistic director, who was a big deal in Chicago, said - and he was wasn't trying to be cruel - "There's no point in you coming back." He said, "Alex, if I cast you in a show, no one's going to pay attention to the story because they're going to be so wrapped up in your history." At the time it was incredibly hurtful and still is, in a way. But it was the clearest explanation I have ever received from a professional on the other side of the table. I believe that is the foundation of why people that cast movies and television don't hire trans people. Certainly, Billy's right. [The artistic director] was working out of fear. Only a coward doesn't try.
Lysette (trans actress on Blunt Talk and Transparent): I was auditioning for years for cis roles before I came out, and I only booked a couple jobs, one of which was a Law & Order guest star [as a sex worker] in 2013*. I was still closeted and I didn't disclose to anyone in the casting processes about my trans identity. There wasn't very much work for trans actors then. I think I had something to prove to myself, that I could book a cis role and then if I did come out one day and start auditioning for trans roles, I could say, "Look, I've already worked in a cis role." Thankfully I've been blessed to have an agent who gets that and still sends me out on non-trans-specific stuff. That is the next step for out trans actors - to just be treated as actors and not "trans actors."
Hilepo (agent for Laverne Cox): Every actor wants to play everything. You look at Meryl Streep and Daniel Day Lewis and you go, "Oh my god, they can play anything." They can play Martians. They can play historical figures. That should always be the goal.
The commercial aspect of Hollywood casting comes up as an explanation for why cis actors are cast in trans roles: A movie star like Eddie Redmayne can get a film like The Danish Girl greenlit, and a lesser-known or unknown trans actor cannot. But until trans actors are cast more often, how do they break through that system and become Eddie Redmayne-level themselves?
Lysette (trans actress on Blunt Talk and Transparent): That is a bigger problem that Hollywood needs to tackle across the board. How will I become Meryl Streep if I can't even get in the door with Jennifer Lawrence for the same role? I think that it starts with casting directors and executives and studio heads opening up their minds, and really putting an effort into being trans inclusive in their projects, whether they're trans-specific or not.
Newell (actor who played a trans woman on Glee): We need to stop worrying about what's more marketable and start thinking about what's going to change the world. What's going to make a statement? We need to take the risk and just do it. I sound like a Nike commercial.
Billings (trans actress on Transparent): About 10 or 15 years ago, I don't know if you remember a film called TransAmerica? It was with Felicity Huffman. She played a trans woman. I auditioned for that role and I had it for about 24 hours and the writer Duncan [Tucker] called me the next day and said, "Alex ... I can't cast you in this role," and I said, "What? Why?" It was a little independent film. He said, "I can't get the film made. Nobody knows who you are. Now, William H. Macy's wife is on Desperate Housewives. She's done movies, she's won awards. If I put her in it, I can get my movie made." I remember saying to him, "This is really unfair." He said, "You're damn right it's unfair." He goes, "But here's the deal. At least someone will see the story." Was it cruel? Yeah. Was he right? Yes. But this blame that's going on from both sides, the trans community and the non-trans community, is not urging anybody. I'm an acting teacher myself, and I'm tired of trans actors coming up to me and asking me how they can get in a reality show. I turn to them and say, "Look, let's study. Let's work on your skills before you become famous, shall we?" Let's take ourselves a little bit more seriously.
Garcia (casting director): I say this to any actor: Don't wait for the world to come to you. Get out there and get in front of people and train. Every casting director and every producer, for them to have you play the lead in the movie - unless it's an indie or a web series or something that there's not a lot of money on the line - they're going to need somebody brilliant, right? Eddie Redmayne is pretty freaking brilliant. By the way, Eddie Redmayne has been around for a really long time. I was looking at a list I made 10 years ago of actors to cast and nobody would cast Eddie Redmayne then. Now he's Eddie Redmayne.
Drucker (trans consultant on Transparent): Trans people have been left out of story telling for the entire duration of film and TV history. How would we know who to reach out to or where to start? All of the typical inroads have been closed. Trans folks have been in the shadows for so long because it is an openly hostile and violent world for anybody who doesn't conform to the gender binary. Hollywood is ground zero for cultural representation, and casting directors are the gate keepers.
Is there validity to actors like Jeffrey Tambor and Eddie Redmayne, and our panelist Alex Newell, playing trans characters?
Billings (trans actress on Transparent): Without question, yes. Jeffrey Tambor - I know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding him - Jeffrey will do a scene and he will turn to me and go, "Does this feel authentic?" He is the adopted child of our community.
Ernst (trans consultant on Transparent): Jeffrey Tambor's character is a good example. It would have been impossible to find a trans-identified 70-year-old with acting experience who could play a little bit on both sides of the gender spectrum, because we do start with a little pre-transition in his story. There just weren't trans candidates for that role. I think it's a little naïve to say that we have this army of trained trans actors that's ready to go. We need to be able to start building a pool.
Newell (actor who played a trans woman on Glee): For me, the reaction [to me playing a trans woman even though I am not a trans woman myself] was very positive. People walked up to me on the street and said, "You don't understand how much you changed my thoughts on this or you've opened my eyes…" There's so many layers about casting, trans or not. I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a room and gotten notes back saying, "You're not black enough." What do you mean I'm not black enough? What is your definition of black?
Looking to the future of trans roles and trans talent in Hollywood: What do you think needs to happen going forward?
Lysette (trans actress on Blunt Talk and Transparent): There is one thing that's been itching at me. I feel like we're due to see a cis, hetero leading man in a loving, long-term relationship with a trans woman on screen. Don't know why that's so elusive. I don't know if America has just been dancing around that, but I feel like they're ready for it and I feel like that is something really compelling that people would love to watch.
Miller (Billings's manager): I just want somebody to open the door for Alex to play a role that has nothing to do with transgender and make it not just a guest star, but a series regular, where everybody can see a trans actor playing a role that is just the girl next door.
Billings (trans actress on Transparent): It's slow but we're moving toward that. What's important is that we include everyone in this journey. The arguments and the anger, they all make sense. There is room for Jeffrey Tambor. There is room for Elle Fanning. There is room for me. There is room for Candis and Laverne and Ian Harvie. There is room for all of us. Let's continue to make more room.
Garcia (casting director): There has to be more pressure. This is not something that everybody wants to talk about, but it has been a mandate by studios and networks to be much more diverse in casting. It has to come down from the top. Because it's been required [in other areas]: You want to sell your script? You need to write in diverse roles. People have been thinking differently because they've had to.
Drucker (trans consultant on Transparent): Trans people have been in survival mode for so long. We need legislation across the board in every state so trans people are protected in housing, in employment. We need the Affordable Care Act to cover, universally, trans health care. We're talking about the minutiae of Hollywood and entertainment, but underneath that, without those supports for trans people, many trans folks are not able to think about professional development, because they're afraid to walk out of their house. Art influences legislation. Entertainment influences legislation.
Interviews, which were conducted separately, have been edited and condensed.
*A previous version of this post said Lysette got the role in 2008, which was incorrect.
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