Paul Holes and Kate Winkler Dawson Reveal How Online Sleuths Can Damage Investigations

The true crime experts and hosts of the 'Buried Bones' podcast reflect on the internet's obsession with true crime.

Warning: This interview contains details of true crime cases that may be upsetting for some readers. 

Paul Holes and Kate Winkler Dawson both have extensive experience in the true crime sphere, and they've teamed up to combine their perspectives on their podcast, Buried Bones, which is approaching its first anniversary this summer.

In each episode, Dawson Winkler, a veteran true crime journalist, walks Holes, a cold case investigator, through a historic case that he may be unfamiliar with so he can analyze it as though he were the investigator in charge.

This March, in honor of the 30th anniversary of The Fugitive movie and the 60th anniversary of The Fugitive TV series, they're breaking down the case that inspired the classic media: the murder trial of neurosurgeon Sam Sheppard, who was accused of killing his pregnant wife, Marilyn Reese Sheppard, in 1954.

"It was groundbreaking with forensics, and I think it's just a fascinating case," Winkler Dawson exclusively explains to Parade. "It's also what I would think would be most people's nightmare: You're in the safety of your house and someone comes in and you have a spouse who's now dead and you've been accused."

But with such a gruesome event, in which the well-respected doctor allegedly heard his pregnant wife crying out, ran upstairs to find her brutally beaten to death, and was convicted and then later exonerated over her murder, it can be a lot of pressure to treat the stories with care.

The pair strive to treat each crime they cover with sensitivity and authenticity, recognizing that many listeners may be family members of victims, or even survivors themselves.

According to the podcasting pair, they don't cover cases that don't offer enough information to cover. "I'm proud that Paul and I try to be victim-forward in this," Winkler Dawson adds, "and really talk about not glorifying the killers."

Related: 50 True Crime Podcasts Worthy of an Immediate Binge-Listen

TikTok, especially, has innumerable content creators breaking into the space, with plenty of people taking their own shot at breakdowns and analysis, but too many of them seem to skip their due diligence.

"I have decades of experience with the online sleuths," Holes notes. For example, while investigating the Zodiac Killer in the late '90s and, more recently, the Golden State Killer, "these online sleuths were constantly hitting [him] up."

But, as Holes points out, "95 percent of somebody’s life is not online," adding, "I don't care how frequently they're posting to social media; me knocking on the door and talking to family and friends or that person themselves, and digging into law enforcement-only material—I know so much more than any online sleuth can find out."

He warns anyone consuming true crime content online, that creators most likely won't have access to the complete picture. "They don't have the same amount of material about the case," he advises, "about the person that they may be focusing in on, as investigators that actually worked the case, and so you can be misled."

This also means that anyone playing the part of an online sleuth needs to be very careful about the information they rely on, as well as how they act on it, lest they interfere with law enforcement's investigation.

Winkler Dawson points to the University of Idaho murders, where four students were stabbed to death in their off-campus apartment, as a recent example "where they were accusing everyone under the sun." She continues, "I do think it can be really dangerous to take information and then accuse people with no basis whatsoever."

Another recent example is the case of Gabby Petito, who was murdered by her fiancé on a cross-country road trip, where rumors flew about her being pregnant. "I just kind of go, ‘Oh, man, how do you think her parents feel about this?’" she comments. "There are repercussions here."

Holes is quick to assure that some of these sleuths "have tremendous talents and skills, [especially if they're] experts in a particular field that is applicable to the case that law enforcement [investigators are not]." In fact, sometimes, they're "invaluable."

Nonetheless, the rumors and assumptions have led to floods of false tips across cases. "I report on historical cases and forever there have been people who have sent in meaningless tips that have derailed the police," Winkler Dawson says. From sending in snail mail to showing up at the police department to online tips, "they can really bog things down."

Holes experienced this firsthand during the Golden State Killer investigation, noting, "I had about 30 sleuths that were communicating with me on a daily basis, and they all had their own persons of interest. If I were to do everything that all these sleuths are calling in as tips, I don't make any progress on the case."

Ultimately, he stopped communicating with them, focusing on what he believed would solve the case, and he was right. "I kept the thrust of my investigation completely out of the public eye," he recalls, "out of fear that these sleuths would contaminate my witness pool."

Related: Is There a Danger To Watching Too Many True Crime Docs?

And while advancements—some more helpful than others—are made in forensics and other investigative techniques year after year, the two agree that, no matter whether they're exploring a historic crime or an active case, there's one thing that never changes: "Human behavior and motive."

"Good investigators have a good understanding of human behavior, first and foremost," Holes states. "And then you build up your expertise in terms of better investigative tactics, understanding forensics, crime scene reconstruction, and then utilizing the most modern forensic tools that we have today, such as the genealogy tool."

As Holes puts it best, it comes down to being a good ol' "gumshoe investigator."

(This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.)