Pappy Van Winkle Would Be 150 Years Old Now. What Would He Think About His Legacy?
If you found yourself in Louisville, KY, on March 20, 2024, you might've sipped a free pour of Pappy Van Winkle. The day marked 150 years since Julian Van Winkle, known later in life as Pappy, was born. His descendants invited the public to mark the occasion with a birthday toast at Pappy & Company, the boutique goods shop founded by his great-granddaughters Carrie, Chenault, and Louise.
Julian Van Winkle III, Pappy’s grandson, is the patriarch of the family today. Taking the reins from his father, who revived the Old Rip Van Winkle brand in the 1970s, he later added to it and created Pappy Van Winkle’s Family Reserve, a lineup that includes 15-, 20-, and 23-year-old expressions—and which have solidified Pappy Van Winkle's iconic status. (There was also a 25-year-old bottling of Old Rip Van Winkle released in 2017.) Early Van Winkle bourbons originated at Stitzel-Weller, a distillery that closed in 1972, while modern bottlings come from Buffalo Trace.
Regardless of its source, it’s the most coveted—and most expensive—bourbon in the world. People pay thousands of dollars for the chance to own a bottle of Van Winkle bourbon, often on the secondary market, even though the suggested retail price for the 23-year-old is a relatively modest $300. We talked to Julian Van Winkle III about his grandfather’s legacy, what he would have thought about the fierce demand for his bourbon, and the next generation of Van Winkles, who may hold the key to the brand's future.
This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
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Men’s Journal: What do you remember about your granddad?
Julian Van Winkle III: Well, he passed away when I was about 15, so I didn't know him real well. But I remember him being a very sharp character. He always had his hat on, his cane, his coat and tie, unless he was on a golf course. We'd go dove hunting together occasionally. He was a very gentle man and just a typical grandfather you looked up to. He'd have his cigar and his certain chair in the evening when you'd go over there to his house, which was always a great place to visit.
Do you have memories of him drinking bourbon?
I didn't really notice a whole lot, but there probably was a glass sitting on the table next to his chair, with his cigar table on one side and maybe a cocktail on the other side in the evening, something like that. They had eggnog around Christmas, which I'm sure was spiked with some pretty good Old Fitzgerald from his distillery.
What would he think about the demand and wild prices for Stitzel-Weller Old Fitzgerald these days?
We still can't believe it today, the way these prices are. He and my father would be just amazed. They knew they had lightning in a bottle back then, but they showed up way too early in life, I think, to produce what they were producing, which was a really great whiskey that nobody appreciated. Some did. That's why a lot of them are never opened. But it's pretty amazing to see what they're worth these days and what people think of the whiskey being some of the best on the planet. They'd be proud, but I don't think they would believe it.
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My understanding of your grandfather is that he was a pretty no-nonsense guy. What would he say about people spending silly sums of money for bourbon—great bourbon, but still just bourbon?
He wanted to sell whiskey at a decent price, and that's what they did. What's going on now is unbelievable. It's supply and demand and the wealth that people have these days—it's nothing to them. It's a rounding error when they spend $10,000 or $20,000 or $50,000 on a bottle of whiskey just because there's very little of it left on earth. We're very lucky that we get to be part of it, even though we don't benefit financially as much as people think we do.
Your grandfather's name and face are also part of the Pappy & Company products founded by your daughters, from cigars to maple syrup. He never got to know his great-grandchildren, but do you think he'd be proud?
Oh, yeah, he would be blown away. He was not one to promote himself. But his great-granddaughters have taken the idea and used our brand partially and they have their own branding also. It's fantastic what they've done with it and it's a credit to the family. We're lucky that people latched onto the whole idea.
What did you toast with on his birthday?
I had a bottle of 20-year actually, which was the first one that I came up with as far as the Pappy Van Winkle’s Family Reserve label. I came up with that Pappy idea back in the mid-'90s. What we toasted with wasn't the old whiskey, but it was modern-day Buffalo Trace distillation, which was quite good.
And it’s been just over 20 years since you started production at Buffalo Trace. How did you handle that shift?
It’s the same pedigree, same mashbill, but obviously different yeast, different equipment, different water supply, and so forth, but it's still a magnificent product. It was rather seamless. I was surprised. I can count on both my hands as far as people noticing the flavor profile change because it's very close to what we had. If you taste them side by side today, a Stitzel-Weller versus Buffalo Trace, you're going to notice a difference. But the whiskey we've got now, we're very happy with it. Buffalo Trace is making it, so it's all good.
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Will we see more Pappy coming down the pipeline?
We've made more since 2002, every year since we hooked up at Buffalo Trace. As you know, the demand keeps rising and the supply keeps rising, but the demand is a little bit higher than the supply. I didn't create this brand to be sold on a limited basis and not have enough of it. It's just hard to keep up. And obviously having a 23-year business plan, the decision-making goes that far back, where you have to predict the future, and it isn't possible. Nobody can really do it, but we just do the best we can. We're making more each year, but still the demand is crazy.
Looking to the future, is there a next Van Winkle generation coming up that might follow in your footsteps?
I'm sure there is, because we've been working on our Van Winkle family succession planning for the last six, seven years and trying to figure out the future. We've been very lucky and blessed that the product sells itself and whatever we put out there just is sold immediately. I'm sure it won't always be like that, and that's where the younger generation can hopefully step in and help out.
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