Niamh Adkins speaks with Alexander Karan about data ownership and privacy

Alexander is a leader in the tech sector as a software engineer and app developer. He explains why it's so important to stop giving into data mining and how to care for your digital footprint.

Video Transcript

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NIAMH ADKINS: Hey, I'm Niamh. And this is "In the Know-- Behind the Screens." Today we're going to take a look at what it takes to reclaim our digital footprint. In the age of social media and tech dominance, can we really take control of our online presence? Let's dive into the intricacies of data ownership and privacy.

My guest today is Alexander Karan, a leader in the tech sector with over a decade of experience as a software engineer and app developer. Alexander delivered a powerful TED Talk titled "You are your data-- why you should stop cooperating," addressing critical issues related to data privacy and digital footprints. He is just the person to get into this topic with. Alexander, welcome to "Behind the Screens."

ALEXANDER KARAN: Hey, Niamh. Thanks for having me.

NIAMH ADKINS: Let's start with the basics. What is a digital footprint, especially as it pertains to social media?

ALEXANDER KARAN: It's basically the traces of yourself that you leave online. And when we talk about social media, that's all the data or interactions that you have with a social media app. So any images you upload, the time of day that you log on, all that sort of stuff the device, you log on from, there's any information that you unleash into the world.

NIAMH ADKINS: What type of data is generally collected about us when we're scrolling through our feeds?

ALEXANDER KARAN: So the first level is sort of basic data that we capture about your device for developers. The second layer is the information that you give, right? So that's like when you create an account, your email, or maybe you log in with another social provider to that social provider. And then there's all the information that you post. So like looking at Facebook or TikTok, it's the videos, the images, the messages you send, the messages between your friends, your interactions.

But then this is where it gets like a little shadier. Maybe it also picks up your browsing history or picks up the Bluetooth devices you connect to your phone. Or maybe it looks at what time of day you log on or how long you log on for, how long you interact with a video. Some apps also collect your biometric data so your face, facial recognition stuff, your eye movements.

NIAMH ADKINS: Why do these companies even bother collecting all this data? What's in it for them?

ALEXANDER KARAN: Their main thing is to sell ads, right? They sell. That's how they make money.

NIAMH ADKINS: I'm sure I'm not the only person who's ever said this. But you know when someone's like, oh, well, I don't mind. I like getting ads that are perfectly curated to me.

ALEXANDER KARAN: Yeah.

NIAMH ADKINS: Why should I think about it a little deeper than that?

ALEXANDER KARAN: There's initially not anything inherently wrong with saying, hey, here's an ad that's a bit more tailored to you. But I guess the simplest way to understand that is how these tools allow people to market things that could be considered harmful. Gambling is a really good example of this. Social media makes it really easy to sell and target their apps at people that might struggle with gambling addiction.

We can now create advertisement funnels or marketing funnels where we keep hooking these people back in and bringing them back in. And it's already so hard for them with the issues they might face in their life that they've now got, like, this funnel machine that's working against them using their own data to draw them back into-- to gambling. And the same could be said for trying to stick to a diet or clothing or anything like that, right?

NIAMH ADKINS: Alexander, a lot of people would say that this kind of data collection doesn't affect them on a personal level. So why should they care?

ALEXANDER KARAN: It affects a lot of people on an individual level. And just because we don't notice it doesn't mean that it doesn't either, right? A few good examples of how it can affect you on a personal level, when businesses or organizations use this information to target customers, it can mean that maybe based on stuff such as race, where you live, where you're from, you might not get the same mortgage. You might not get the same rental properties available to look at, right? Like it can bleed into so many things.

NIAMH ADKINS: And what about on a less personal level? How does this affect the real world when we step away from our phones?

ALEXANDER KARAN: There's also the election issue, right? Like it doesn't matter where you fall on the political spectrum because it allows us to sew discourse in a way that has just never been seen before. It allows us to sway opinions. You have, like, millions and millions of dollars being pummeled into marketing that's, like, analyzed by data scientists and engineers about how we can most hit this or hit that. And you get people stuck in these echo chambers. And it's really hard to pull them out.

NIAMH ADKINS: So now say someone hears you on this issue. And they want to reclaim their digital footprint. Is that even possible? Can we wipe our data after we have given it out so willy nilly?

ALEXANDER KARAN: There are things you can do. First is restrict what you post. You don't need a post everything about your life. The second thing you can do is, like, stop logging into everything with your social media identity, right? Like use an email and password. It makes it a little harder. Use browsers to access certain apps rather than using the app itself. Because when you download an app on your phone, it records a lot more data. And it has access to a lot more things.

Another thing you can do is there are services out there that will go and help try and scrub stuff from the internet like because your information can leak out of social media into the hands of data brokers. So there are services you can use to get rid of that.

But even then, like, just because you've erased it from Facebook doesn't mean that it hasn't bled into somewhere else, right? So it's almost impossible to, like-- for you to take personal responsibility. We need a bit more political action and laws to hold certain companies to account rather than just being like, hey, it's all on you as an individual.

NIAMH ADKINS: Many of us, especially Gen Zers, love our social media and probably won't be leaving it alone anytime soon. So what are some practical steps that we can take to protect our data and create a safer online space?

ALEXANDER KARAN: Look, it's hard to leave it. And I wouldn't either because I guess it's also led to empowering and connecting in ways that we haven't been able to do before. But I think we should use that empowerment as well to, like, push for better laws around privacy and data collection and holding companies accountable for their actions like using our voice, our vote. I see people in government who are mostly all way older than I am. And they just have no idea how any of this stuff works.

You can actually lend your hand, too. We all have different things to bring to the table. So you can actually get annoyed about some of this stuff and go start pushing for action on the ground.

NIAMH ADKINS: Gen Z, you heard the man. It's good to be aware. And there are things we can do. Alexander, it's been amazing speaking to you. Thank you so much for your time and all of your knowledge.

ALEXANDER KARAN: It's great. Thank you so much for having me.

NIAMH ADKINS: So owning and controlling our online presence is complex because our digital footprints once left can have lasting impacts. Join me next time on "In the Know-- Behind the Screens."