MJ Lenderman Does Not Have Mamba Mentality

Yailene Leyva

MJ Lenderman Zooms in from the spot in Asheville where everything started and it all still happens. It’s a house—or pair of houses, actually—where the musician and his bandmates have been living, writing, and recording since 2017, when he moved in with his drummer to make an album. Now he lives in a bungalow next to the main house with his girlfriend Karly Hartzman, leader of the rock band Wednesday. “Do you want to see it?” he asks, and pans his camera around.

The room is cluttered with microphones and instruments—it’s a place where things get done. Lenderman likes to work on new material at home (“It’s hard to write in the van, it’s bumpy”), and these days his window of opportunity is small. He’s back in town for a blink after a long touring season and a whirlwind year pulling double duty as both a solo artist and the guitarist in Hartzman’s band. In 2022 he released an acclaimed record of scuzzy, alt-country still lifes called Boat Songs, and this year he’s been focusing on Wednesday’s equally acclaimed album Rat Saw God. Along the way, he’s played with Waxahatchee and Indigo de Souza and become a ubiquitous it-kid of the indie rock scene.

Lenderman’s music is steeped in the sound of the 90s—Guided By Voices and Dinosaur, Jr. are clear influences, as are the southern vibes and storytelling of Drive-By Truckers. But his appeal lies in the easygoing charm of his songs. They sound like a buddy spinning a yarn on his porch, feel like someone handing you a beer at a barbecue. And they’re funny! He has a penchant for writing about athletes. “Hangover Game” argues that Michael Jordan didn’t have the flu in Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals with a cheeky bit of empathy: “I love drinking, too.” “Dan Marino” wishes the Dolphins quarterback well, suggesting he shouldn’t be bummed about seeing Tom Brady on a Wheaties box.

The playfulness in Lendmerman’s music makes for a damn fun live show, which is why he’s releasing Live and Loose! this week. Lenderman plays most instruments himself when he records, but in concert he freewheels with his band, rocking through with no setlist. He likes the road and he’ll be back on it soon, but he called GQ while he was home in Asheville to talk about his writing style, his childhood dreams of the priesthood, and his love of Allen Iverson.

There’s a great sense of humor to your songs. Were you always funny?

[Pause] No! I don't know what happened. Like, I have a self-titled record that was stuff that I wrote when I was like 18, and it's really serious. Yeah. After that, at some point, I just realized you can do anything. And that was freeing. I think the first song I wrote, maybe a song called “No Mercy,” or like “SUV,” was one of the first ones I was like, “You can make up stories to share, and it doesn't all have to come from your experience.”

I’m interested to hear you say that, because you sing about being a Catholic priest in a couple of your songs: did you actually want to be a priest?

Yeah. I mean, that was a real thought I had as a kid.

Were you raised Catholic?

Yeah, we were. I have three sisters. So it's pretty kind of a big family. And we, we were raised Catholic, went to Catholic school through middle school, and I was an altar boy.

What was the original appeal of the priesthood for you?

I guess I learned that the Church provided a house for the priest. That was enough to sell me. And I felt like I had made it all the way in the altar boy world. I had gone from starting out as an acolyte and then I made my way up to being the cross bearer, and I felt like maybe one day I could be a priest. I guess I wasn't thinking about girls at the time. You can’t get married as a priest.

It’s a real bummer, I hear.

It’s not healthy!

Was your family religious?

Definitely. We would go to church every weekend.

Were they musical?

My dad's granddad was a saxophone player named Charlie Ventura, and he played with Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich. He was pretty big in the bebop world. My dad's uncles were good musicians too, and he likes to play a little bit of guitar, like Neil Young covers and stuff. And he always had music on in that house. He told me about Pavement and Sonic Youth, but it wasn't, like, what he listened to. But once I found that, I really got deep into it. And later on at some point in high school, I learned about Songs: Ohia and Palace Brothers and Silver Jews.

How do you delineate between your solo work and Wednesday’s music?

My band's obviously, like, my name, so it's a pretty clear solo thing. Wednesday is definitely Karly's songs, she writes them all. But I guess we still describe ourselves as a band because we work out all the songs together, whereas I for the most part go into the studio by myself and play as many instruments as I can.

How did MJ Lenderman start?

My junior and senior year of high school, I started releasing stuff on Bandcamp as MJ Lenderman. I've wiped all that. But me and Colin Miller—he plays drums in my band—when I was a senior in high school, he was in college getting an audio tech degree. And he recorded my very first album for me at this house that I eventually moved into. We finished that and put it out in 2017.

Is that this house?

Next door. I live next door now with Karly in a smaller house. But Colin still lives at the other one, and I used to live there. It’s funny. Colin moved in there with his family. When he was maybe 13 or something and this guy, Gary, the landlord, became kind of a grandfather figure. Eventually, when he was in college, his parents moved out and he and his brother stayed there, and once his brother graduated from college, he moved out, and slowly all of us started moving into this property. A lot of different people have lived here. This room is our bedroom now, but it used to be the practice room and this was a studio room. Unfortunately, we have to move soon, because Gary passed away over a year ago now. He was crucial to whatever was going on with us. Rest in Peace.

Are you all going to try to move to two places next to each other, or will everyone split up?

Well, that would be nice, but probably not. I don't know. Me and Karly have been talking about going outside of town, maybe somewhere else in the state. But who knows?

Does she ever comment on solo work while you're working on it? Or does she give you some distance?

She’s respectful. If I'm recording vocals in here, she'll put headphones on so I don't get self-conscious. But she'll give me some good advice sometimes.

What's an example of some good advice she's given you?

The song “Catholic Priest,” that very last line, she told me to add to it there. The third repetition of “I tried to make you laugh,” that was her doing. That really made this song really tie together.

I know you’re a big basketball guy. How often do you get a chance to play?

I would shoot around a lot during COVID, but not really play competitively. I have some friends who do a pickup game. I’m a little nervous to get back into shape, but I just love shooting so much. That's my favorite thing to do.

How's your 3 pointer?

That was kind of my thing, I was killer at that in middle school and high school. I hit a couple of game winners. The best game I had, I think it was nine or ten threes in one game. I was good at shooting but I couldn't play defense. I was too scared out there. I don't have the Mamba Mentality.

Do you have a favorite team?

Not really. I just like shooters, mostly. In the NBA they have teams that I like, but we grew up watching college ball. My parents went to UVA, so we're mostly fans of them. And that's been exciting because they were like, they were really bad for a long time. And when Tony Bennet started coaching there, they finally became a good team and won a natty championship.

Do you think you'll write more basketball songs?

I don't know! If it happens. It wasn't really something that I set out to do. It was, I guess, on my mind at the time when I was writing the ones that are basketball tunes.

Were you watching the ESPN Jordan doc when you wrote “Hangover Game”?

Pretty much. I had seen that. And then I was talking to a friend about it, and he told me about the hangover theory. I ran with that, and the song is kind of funny because there's no evidence, no facts, not really well researched. But it sounds cool.

A hunch is better than research sometimes. Who are some other players might make good subjects for songs?

Maybe Dennis Rodman?

You're an Iverson guy, right?

[Ed note: Here Lenderman swells with enthusiasm. He is clearly a BIG Iverson fan.] Oh my god. Yeah. Good story—Bruce Hornsby was pretty vital in getting Allen Iverson out of jail.

What?

Yeah. Just kind of a tangent, but [Hornsby’s] son played at UNC Asheville. The first season he played with them, [UNC Asheville] were opening up their new stadium at the time, and to do that they had UNC come in and just destroy them. But Bruce Hornsby played the national anthem. And me and my dad, we sat a couple feet behind Bruce. My dad was really freaking out about that. But yeah, Hornsby’s really tall. And he’s best friends with Phil Jackson.

Originally Appeared on GQ