MAKERS@Home with Jennifer Rudolph Walsh

"That’s the thing that I find all the time, is that: ‘I can’t believe this is happening today’. That’s the universe giving you a giant god-wink and saying, ‘Yes sweetheart, yes! You’re on the right track, just keep going!’"Jennifer Rudolph Walsh joined MAKERS Founder Dyllan McGee as they discussed Walsh's newest book, "Hungry Hearts: Essays on Courage, Desire, and Belonging," along with how we all need to listen to our inner voices and tell our stories.

Video Transcript

DYLLAN MCGEE: Hi, everyone. I'm Dyllan McGee, founder and executive producer of MAKERS. And welcome to MAKERS@Home live. This is my last live MAKERS@Home conversation as the executive producer of MAKERS. Tomorrow's my last day.

And then I will become a very passionate advisor to MAKERS forever. And we are-- my last one is very special because she is a dear friend, Jennifer Rudolph Walsh She is-- I mean, a 30 year titan in Hollywood, and has now gone off and she's created this extraordinary live tour called Together Live, which I'm excited to talk about.

And she is a mom, and she is an amazing wife, and she's an extraordinarily passionate storyteller. And oh my god. Hi, Max. My son just came on for my last live. And she is a new San Francisco transplant.

But what we're here for is

[VOCALIZING]

I know it's backwards. But Hungry Hearts Essays on Courage Desire and Belonging. See? I can read that backwards. It's an amazing-- she edited this book-- amazing short stories. And we're going to talk to her about that today.

So Jennifer. Here I come. Get ready.

That's right we get to do a book dance lots of times so people can see this beautiful book. Hi.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Hi, honey. Oh my gosh. I'm so honored to be with you on your last full day at MAKERS.

And there's just nobody who I'd rather help celebrate. I know you're here to support me and we'll get to all of that. But I just-- when I heard this was your last full day and your last Instagram Live, it brought tears to my eyes, because honestly I don't know anybody who embodies the spirit of Together Live and Hungry Hearts, the idea that we can make enough room for everybody, and that there's more than enough to go around, and somebody who's been at that door holding it open for women 24/7, making sure that there's room for everybody. So it is my honor and privilege to be with you here today.

DYLLAN MCGEE: All right and that's a wrap. Thanks everybody.

[LAUGHING]

Jennifer.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Hi, honey.

DYLLAN MCGEE: You're like bringing tears to my eyes. But let's-- we're focusing, as you said, on you. And before we get into this book, which I'm going to hold up and many, many times, because it's very special. And it's one of those ones that you just sort of keep on your bedside and when you need it you turn to it.

But you-- you created-- I'll never forget, you and I had lunch together years ago. Because when was the first Together Live? What year?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: 2015 or '16?

DYLLAN MCGEE: '15 or '16. So before that.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Right.

DYLLAN MCGEE: We sat down, and you were like, so I have this idea. And you're like, am I crazy. And I was like, are you crazy. You're brilliant.

You're like, reinventing something that needs to happen. It's this yearning. You know, people go to concerts and they go to all these different things.

But we need to be together. And we need to talk about the sisterhood. And so where did the vision for that come together? And explain to our audience who that was. And I have a-- I'm supposed to have this post up of who you are at all times so.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Well, you know what? We don't need that. We can just be ourselves.

DYLLAN MCGEE: OK.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Pretty soon you're not going to be Dylers-- Dyllan MAKERS. So you'll know what it feels like to just be like, I'm just Jen. In fact, somebody in your office asked for my title and I said, I think it's storytelling evangelist. I just gave it to myself. It suits me don't you think?

So I had for many, many years overseeing the book division at William Morris Endeavor, the most incredible sort of job a person could possibly have, if you even want to call it a job. I was paid to learn and be close to storytellers and storytelling. And it was one of the great privileges of my life to find something to do day in and day out that never felt like work for one second.

And then about, I guess, six or seven years ago, I had the privilege of going on a national tour with my personal hero, Oprah Winfrey. And we co-created something called The Life You Want Tour. We took over arenas around America. We saw over a quarter of a million people.

Before Michelle Obama was becoming, we were taking over arenas. Thousands and thousands of hearts all beating as one. And we created the most intimate, incredible experience, even though there were 23,000 people in the room or 25,000 people.

And when it ended, I didn't want to go back to a world where I worked with writers who wrote in solitude and people who read in solitude. By the way, I love that. I love that.

But something had evolved for me in the idea of hearing stories together, witnessing people's humanity together. And as you pointed out, rock concerts or church, those are two good opportunities to have that collective experience. But if you're not a rock concert person, and if you're not a church person, there really isn't an opportunity to have that collective experience.

And I long to create that, and to create it in a way where the tickets were low priced enough that everybody could afford to come, and that people would leave-- maybe come alone but leave with a new family, and a family that looked nothing like them. You know, we put a real emphasis on intersectional stories, marginalized voices, and intergenerational people learning from one another.

But then COVID hit and it was time to pivot again. And so Hungry Hearts is the physical manifestation of the spirit of Together Live. It's stories from people that may look nothing like you, people who may be devoted to a different religious belief, who may be on a different place on the gender or sexual spectrum, who may be disabled, who may have a different skin color. But underneath their skin, their stories reveal our great secret, which is that we're more alike than we are different.

DYLLAN MCGEE: And-- and can we just-- I want to get into the book. Because I love it--

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Dyllan.

DYLLAN MCGEE: But I want to--

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: You are so cute.

DYLLAN MCGEE: [INAUDIBLE] one second, because you say you created this family, and a family you did. But what a family. You know, I was talking with our producer before, Kelly. And we were just thinking like, what does it feel like, you know, to have these people who, you know, maybe people knew of and maybe they didn't.

You introduce MAKERS to so many extraordinary people. I mean, you know. When I think about Milck I think about Glennon and Abby-- I think about Bozoma.

I mean, all of these people who are on your stage. What does it feel like to watch them all? They've tapped into their passions and so many have grown in so many different ways.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: It was a force multiplier. And it just brings me so much joy. It feels like love, you know?

I mean, reflected glory has always been one of these feelings that I think people overlook. And maybe because I became a mom when I was 26 years old, I really kind of-- before I was fully formed as an adult, reflected glory became a very big piece of sort of some of my favorite emotions.

And for me, there's nothing like seeing somebody step into their full beauty, into their full power. You know, seeing somebody in full bloom is actually-- it's actually even more exciting to me than the idea of myself in full bloom, which I also feel like I am. So it feels like love. It feels like maybe even a little maternal love.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Yeah. That's what I feel like. You-- it's like your babies.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: They're all my babies.

DYLLAN MCGEE: [INAUDIBLE]. Can we talk about one of the babies? Amanda Gorman.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Oh, I know. I know. I die. I die.

I mean, she and I were-- she and I were texting all the days leading up to that. Because, you know, now there is somebody that you sit with her, and you just know that all shall be well and all shall be well. All manner of things shall be well.

DYLLAN MCGEE: And she-- how did you meet her? And how did she become part of Together Live?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: It's just-- you know what? I'm a divining rod for a certain kind of relentless excellence, and purpose, and authenticity, really. I mean, I think the thing that I would say about everybody that ever stepped on our stage is that they are who they say they are. And that's very important to me.

You know there are a lot of amazing people when the cameras are on. But what made our traveling love rally so special is that we were the same when nobody was watching.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Traveling-- what did you call it? You are just a little sound byte machine. A traveling what?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Dell, I'm the queen of the cliche. You didn't know that?

DYLLAN MCGEE: Good lord.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Honey, that's a well known fact. Look in the birthday book.

February 14. I am the day of the quick quip. I came by it honestly

DYLLAN MCGEE: No you are not. It's a good skill to have. Well, the word love--

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: It's what I got.

DYLLAN MCGEE: I know. It's so good. And that's what that experience feels like at Together Live. It's-- you tap-- you tap into everyone's strengths and their passions. Right? And that-- whether they're Amena Brown doing her incredible poem on Judy Blume.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Remember that? Oh my god. Everybody going insane. I know.

DYLLAN MCGEE: So good. And you know. So it's a spoken word, it's music. I mean, when Connie sings you just--

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Comedy. I know.

DYLLAN MCGEE: And then you--

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Sabrina Jalees.

DYLLAN MCGEE: --The War and Treaty.. I mean, follow them, people.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: I know, War and Treaty. No, Sabrina Jalees, Cameron Esposito. I can still wake up in the middle of the night and just start laughing. Cameron Esposito yelling into the universe, do I like carving spoons. Like after her divorce, and she felt completely with no identity.

I mean, I'm telling you. I love them all with my entire heart. I cheer my heart off-- my head off for them daily. Every one of them All my babies.

DYLLAN MCGEE: You have a heart theme going on. So why--

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Oh, I know. Well, I mean-- say it again, babe.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Why is it Hungry Hearts?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Well, very, very, good question, actually, because it comes from the essay that Sue Monk Kidd wrote for us in the collection, which is incredible, called Women On the Loose. But what she talks about, at the very core of all of our hearts, is a hunger, a longing. And that longing is really felt by everybody who has a beating heart. And it's a longing to be seen, to be loved, to know that we matter. So that Hungry Hearts, we felt, really kind of encapsulated what it means to have courage, to have desire, and to want to belong.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Well, I mean-- and you touch on so many different phases of life. Like, let's take-- one of my favorite stories was Luvvie.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Luvvie's unbelievable.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Right? And she writes this essay. I mean, you can't believe it's, what, five or six pages, because it hits all your emotions.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Totally.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Getting married, the excitement with that. Then she has this almost breakup with a best--

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: She has a platonic breakup which, by the way, Brady talks about. But if you've ever lived through it, it's crushing.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Crushing. And so here she is. She's got like, she's about to embark on her wedding. And she's like got this pit in her stomach from the platonic breakup. But then her friends take her on this you know, bachelorette party and she's renewed again. So it's like, in six pages you get this whole journey of--

I read it and I'm like, OK. I've been there. I've had that pit in my stomach.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Totally.

DYLLAN MCGEE: What other ones? Like Bozoma losing her husband.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: I know. And just waking up and trying to be the love she wants to see in her life. Maysoon Zayid, the same thing. Right? Trying to step into the space where we were told that somebody else was supposed to fill it, and realizing that, no, actually.

It's self-love that really is the generator of all other things. And whether we're hearing that from-- from the perspective of a young woman finding her way, you know, as Natalie Guerrero and Milck, or whether we're hearing that from somebody who's had more life experience, like Tanya, or like Boz.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Or Cameron.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Or Cameron. So it's every one of the essays are so unique, and so authentic, and vulnerable, and insightful. And yet, you find yourself comparing you know, elements of a story that have nothing to do with your lived experience with these people.

And my favorite story, and I have said it before, but after the first night we did our together-- or sorry, our Hungry Hearts first night virtual tour, which was amazing. And we had an incredible young woman named Nkosingiphile Mabaso join us. And she's somebody that I was introduced to through Oprah, because she was one of the first year of her leadership academy for four girls. That first class she kind of adopted like, eight of these women, and Nkosingiphile was one of them. And her essay is about finding worthiness and overcoming imposter syndrome, because when she was accepted to Oprah's Academy her life was so far from that place.

And I come out of my little den, where I am right now, and my husband is waiting for me and he's bawling. He's like, Nkosingiphile's story. She told my story. And here's my 58-year-old white straight husband hearing his story told through a 20 something black woman from Africa. And that's the power. That's the magic medicine.

DYLLAN MCGEE: It's the magic-- there she is again. Magic. So what are-- you've touched on a lot of these themes. But if there's sort of one takeaway you want people to feel when they finish this book, you know, what is that?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: What I want them to realize is that they have a story and that their story matters. Stories are not just something that happens to other people. And once you begin to understand sort of what your story is about, and how all the things that you thought were in the way were actually the way, once you share that with somebody else, and then encourage them to share their stories with you-- without judgment, just witnessing one another in their full humanity-- you're going to learn a kind of intimacy and a kind of being seen that you really, really didn't imagine.

And I think we have this story where we tell ourselves that all the truth inside of our story is what's least attractive to people, and that what's most attractive is you know, winning and succeeding. And I think that-- I think that when people realize that their brave truth, their scars, their things that they think are the shame are the things that actually make them most compelling and most magnetic to people.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Oh. And Louise just joined. And just so you know, we're talking about-- we're with Jennifer Rudolph Walsh, the-- what's your new tag line? Storytelling evangelist?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Yes.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Yeah. OK.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: I'm going with that.

DYLLAN MCGEE: And you know, beautiful essays with messages for all of us, universal messages in every single one.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Well, that's another thing too, to say about universal messages, is that once you start sharing your like, intimate truths, you start finding like, the universe just sends you people. Like, you know, you can't believe it, but you were just willing to finally talk about some challenging childhood experience, and maybe something that you're the only person you thought this ever happened to.

And then all of a sudden, once you share it, I find that suddenly in your path, you find people who have had similar or related experiences. And the inspiration just keeps flowing. Because I believe that you know, your purpose is always unfolding whether you're following it or not. But without your story, without the ability to share your unique story, I think you're missing a big piece, a big breadcrumb.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Well, let's-- I want to turn that on you and me. Because when you talk about telling your story, I came to you very vulnerable, very nervous about leaving MAKERS. Am I ever going to survive? Is this my only identity?

And you sort of, amazingly, having done, you know, in your own new chapter where you are just blossoming, and it's just so fun to hear and see, and I can just feel your calmness just sitting there in San Francisco. You know, you shared with me that it's going to be OK. And it's true. I had to share that and be vulnerable, and then you calm me down.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Well, what you kept saying to me is, I can't believe you're saying this to me today.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Yeah.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: And that's the thing that I find all the time, is that-- that, I can't believe this is happening today. That's the universe giving you a giant god wink and saying, yes, sweetheart. Yes.

You're on the right track. Just keep going. Just keep opening. Just keep getting softer and more trusting.

And so what I said to you, was I also had left a career of 30 years that was very much what I felt was my definition, my identity. And I felt like when I was leaving, I was jumping off a cliff. But when I finally actually left, I realized it was much more like stepping off a curb, and a lot less scary than the anticipation of it had been.

And that-- I felt that that was the same thing that was going to happen for you. And I understood why you were trying-- my dear Maggie just said, "try easier, my beloved girl." Yes, exactly. You know, we're so used to trying harder, trying harder.

And it's like, actually, try easier. Actually try the thing that makes you feel good, and inspired, and seen. And let go of that voice inside of you that says it has to be hard, or involve suffering for it to be valuable.

DYLLAN MCGEE: I love it. I'm going to step off the curb.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Well, you know I'm going to stay on you. So you have no choice. Right? I mean.

DYLLAN MCGEE: No. No. Well, I mean-- I'm already at our 20 minutes, but I'm going to end with one thing with you that's very special to me. It's something we created a few years ago that's called The MAKERS Minute.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: OK. Wait, before you go to the Minute, I have to just say, because so many people are saying they're starting over. And I just have to say this. After 30 years of being one way, I answered a calling to move to San Francisco and walk among the redwoods every day. This is a privilege I recognize, that I was able to make this move.

So not everybody needs to be walking in the redwoods. But nature is everywhere. And what I will say is that I followed-- I took a page out of Cheryl Strayed's book. But I walked my path every single day.

I walked it sad. I walked it happy. I walked it tired. I walked it scared.

And just like her, my path appeared. And unlike her-- hers was wild. My path is called peace. And I've really come to realize that that path is available to everybody. And we just need to calm our nervous systems down.

And we need to sort of let go of the identities that we've been locked in, and just allow for a new identity to emerge. So you know, my path is called peace. But there's many, many paths out there. And they're all, I think, uniquely designed for each individual. And I recommend everybody tries that.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Can I hop on the peace path? Or do I have to find my own?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Yes. It's the best. It's the best. It's peace punctuated with sweeping joy.

Honestly, if I wasn't-- if I wasn't so humble about it, I'd be driving people crazy, because I literally-- I no longer report the weather or react to the weather. I am the weather. And it's always sunny. What can I tell you?

DYLLAN MCGEE: OK. I am the weather, people. [INAUDIBLE] we're just going to follow your Instagram show wherever you lead us. We'll follow. [INAUDIBLE]. OK.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: All right. Give me the Minutes. What's the Minutes question?

DYLLAN MCGEE: I just want your path. I want the peace path. OK. Here we go.

I have an-- and to this day. Gloria Steinem is the champion of this. So you win, you beat Gloria. That's what I got.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: I sincerely doubt it. But you did sit me next to Gloria spontaneously at a MAKERS event, and that's still top five of my whole entire life.

DYLLAN MCGEE: It's something special that Gloria. All right, here we go, Jennifer. My last MAKERS@Home Live MAKERS Minute.

[CHEERING]

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: [INAUDIBLE]

DYLLAN MCGEE: Author of "Hungry Hearts." Can she beat Gloria Steinem? OK. Kelly Matusik, are you ready to time us in a minute? Tell me when to go. Or I may just go and you start the timer.

Three, two, one. Here we go. Best word to describe you.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: In transition.

DYLLAN MCGEE: A female who inspires you right now.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: You.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Something that makes you hopeful.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: The young queens I've seen and the young I have-- the many I haven't met yet who are living their lives bravely and out loud.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Something that pisses you off.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: People who are more concerned with being right than being loving, and kind, and fair.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Something that you're afraid of.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: That-- right now I would say I have no fears.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Sunny day, every day. If you could be any other woman on Earth for one day, who would it be?

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: I would love to have been my grandmother for one day. She died when my mom was four.

DYLLAN MCGEE: I love that you said that. It's always like, Oprah. But you probably would want to be her for one day too.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: No. I love Oprah too.

DYLLAN MCGEE: OK. Something you wish you did more often.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Something I wish I did more often. Exercise.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Something you wish you did less often.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Something I did-- I wish I did less often? Nothing.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Oh my god. Oh. Time. Honey, our MAKERS Minute and we got to-- let's see.

We got to 10. Gloria is 16. But, you know, it's good to let [INAUDIBLE] win.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: You know what, honey? I'm on the peace train. We speak at the temperature we speak. And I will say, something I wish I did less often, it's nothing, because you know, what, I had an insight that it's all free time. Even when you're working, you get to choose how you spend your time.

So if all the time is free, you get to decide what to allocate what to. And that's it. And this half an hour it's been spending with you, who I adore.

And I just want to say again, Dyllan, you have done more for more people than almost anybody I know. You are so adored. You are such a dear, and true, and loyal person. And I know I speak for everybody on this phone when we say thank you for everything you've done, and also we will be cheering our heads off for you, and looking to be of service to you in any way we can in your new life of freedom, and joy, and peace. You've got this.

DYLLAN MCGEE: And you've got me teary. And all I'll say is just, tomorrow, open up that peace path for me, because I'm jumping right in.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: I will. I will. And everybody, please do order Hungry Hearts and discover all these incredible, incredible women. And afterwards, bravely share your story and encourage somebody else to share theirs, especially with somebody who looks nothing like you.

DYLLAN MCGEE: All right. [INAUDIBLE].

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Love you, sweetheart.

DYLLAN MCGEE: We love you.

JENNIFER RUDOLPH WALSH: Bye.

DYLLAN MCGEE: Bye, everybody.