Get to Know Gucci Creative Director Sabato De Sarno

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This is an edition of the newsletter Show Notes, in which Samuel Hine reports from the front row of the global fashion week circuit. Sign up here to get it in your inbox.

Sabato De Sarno’s first Gucci menswear show was, as he might say, wow. Perhaps even more than wow. On Friday, the 40-year-old creative director opened this Milan Fashion Week with a production that, in an unexpected twist, “mirrored” his debut in September. The location—an old foundry outside the city center—was different, but the stage was set with all the same trimmings as before: minimal lighting, a Mark Ronson soundtrack, and a sense of intense anticipation.

The looks, too, reflected last season’s. Some were the same, but fit for men, like the sartorial topcoat that opened the show. (Let the record reflect that in September, Show Notes predicted the coat would return.) Other outfits called back with fabric and color but introduced new shapes to De Sarno’s new menswear wardrobe, and he introduced Gucci creepers and a bunch of large, slouchy handbags. As I wrote in a profile of De Sarno that went online during the finale, the whole thing was a risky move. His first Gucci collection was polarizing, and he was doubling down at a high-stakes moment, as he seeks to establish the legitimate creative and commercial credibility of his men’s line.

The post-show chatter was definitive: it had worked. The brisk collection was tightly focused, and clearly designed with retail in mind—you could already imagine all of it hanging in Gucci’s newly-renovated flagship on via Monte Napoleone. But it was also sensual, the models enrobed in swooping coats, silk scarves fluttering tightly from their neck, and had several moments of textural drama thanks to crystal embroidery, patent leathers, and a shiny jacquard suiting fabric covered in a new Gucci monogram.

Two days before the show, I took the train from Florence to sit down with De Sarno at Gucci’s global headquarters in Milan. You should read the resulting profile, and then come back for the below Show Notes-exclusive extended Q+A. I found that our chat helped me understand De Sarno much better. I learned that he’s more complex than perhaps the initial press around his debut gave him credit for. He is intellectual and emotional, which he chalks up to his southern Italian upbringing. He has a quiet home life, a husband who lives in Brussels and two dachshunds (Luce and a new puppy, Pina), but loves clubbing and is a major music geek. He is a self-described star student who carries himself in a deeply casual manner. He has landed his dream job but emphasizes that the role is just that: a job. He wears all black but owns over 200 coats. Above all, as you’ll find, he is proud and more than eager to defend his work from critics, whom he accuses of acting—and thinking—more like influencers than journalists.

Before the show, I wanted to check my math on my impression of De Sarno. So I asked Mark Ronson for his take. Hanging out near his front-row seat, the DJ explained that when they were developing the soundtrack, De Sarno introduced musical references that even he hadn’t heard of, like the 1978 ballad “Ancora, ancora, ancora” by Mina, and inspired a novel approach to his own track “Late Night Feelings.” “He has such a good musical brain, and he’s just a really lovely person,” Ronson said. “All his ideas are great, and they make me look really smart.” Bingo!

Below, get to know the designer you’ll be hearing much more about soon.

GQ: You and the design team just moved from Rome to this office in Milan. How has that been going?

Sabato De Sarno: Now it's five months after the first show in September, and I feel more confident with the brand. I was confident also in September, but now I know better the people around me. And I really believe in connection, I really believe when people work together. I’m a team worker, I'm always staying with people, asking for their opinion. I love to go to the office, sit on a desk, open the discussion, talk about things. I love to do, I love to change. I don’t want to be a king of something. I don’t like to just sit here, saying yes or no. To me, I get bored in three seconds with that. I want to stay with people and build something together. I want to do.

I love this job, it's my dream job. I've dreamed of being a designer since I was a child. I never dreamed to be a creative director, but I’ve always dreamed about being a designer for a brand. Now I'm the creative director of Gucci, I'm so proud about that of course. It’s more than I expected in my life, honestly. We are lucky people. You were in Florence this morning, and now you’re in Milano talking about nice things. And to me this is very important, to say that we are lucky people, and we are a little part of the world. But a nice part of the world.

What was it about your childhood that got you thinking about fashion at such a young age?

I was born in a small village close to Naples and it was very hard to be myself in this small village when I was young. Fashion was always my passion. I was very passionate about the way people chose clothes in order to align with their personality. The clothes help people be what they wanted to be. If you want to be sexy, you can choose sexy things. I love when you see the people under the clothes, not the clothes on the people. I don't like to see people wear a Gucci outfit or a Gucci brand, but you lose completely the humanity and the personality. This is something that happens in the theater, but fashion is real. It is real life, it is day wear, it is everyday looks.

I liked when I saw Julia Garner embody my dress at the Golden Globes. She looks nice. Not just because the dress was beautiful, but also because she wore it in a beautiful way. She was confident. I like when the people can be themselves.

Taylor Swift was also wearing your dress at the Golden Globes.

She was so nice. She's beautiful. And also she said the same things about me, she is a nice person. And you feel that, you feel her energy.

But being a designer, it means finding a way to express myself, finding a way to be Sabato. The fashion helped me be myself. I was fascinated by Gianni Versace because in a way we have the same story. He was born in the South of Italy, he was gay, he was very in with his family, the family was the center of his life. I remember when I was 12, 13, I just projected my life to be like Gianni Versace’s life, dreaming to be a designer. It came from the suits.

What was the first piece of men's clothing that you designed? Do you remember?

I remember. I started with men’s at Valentino, and I started with coats. My passion is for coats, I'm very obsessed with coats, I collect them.

I know that you own 200 or so.

Now more. We have 200 plus. 15 more from Gucci from September. I love coats. You know what, I wear black, but I also buy coats in colors, not to wear, just to have. I always find something that I like. It's maybe the fabric, maybe the shape.

But why coats versus suits or—?

A coat is something that makes me more secure. I love when I wear it because I always have it longer, and I love double-breasted coat in order to hug. It's an intimate approach with a coat, I think. The coat is more intimate than other things because it hugs yourself. Wraps you in a way. In the kind way.

Tell me more about what it was like to design menswear for the first time. What was that shift like?

It was easier, because you think you would wear it yourself. And I like real clothes, I like when clothes are desirable for people. The people say "commercial.” But I think if you design something that’s nice in the show, nice in the picture, nice on the cover, and then you go to the store to try it on and you don't desire it because maybe it's too happy, maybe it's too big—I think that’s not the goal. I shop a lot of fashion pieces but I only buy pieces that I love and I can wear, or maybe I like the color and I can keep it because it means something. I would love it if the next time we spoke you were wearing something from my collection. This is the goal, to have guys, people, women wearing it, not just to have people who keep borrowing pieces from the brand. I love when people desire something. I think fashion is desirability.

I went to your first show in September, and some people said they didn’t feel it created desire, which is the word you keep using.

But you know. If you see those people, what can we do in their life? Nothing maybe.

Do you mean critics in general?

I love critics. But if you come to my show and watch my show from your iPhone, I prefer you stay at home and watch from the iPad, it's bigger than iPhone and maybe you understand better. If you come at the show just to photograph the top model, present the show in order to have likes on Instagram or on your profile, are you a journalist or an influencer? I think fashion is a serious thing. It’s a job. We move a lot of money, we give work to many families.

I think my show was wow, more than wow. If for the people wow is to have a big dress or a sparkly everywhere or a top model—it's also wow, but that’s not a Sabato way. I would love to have people at my show keep their attention on the show. To watch and also understand it. The people say they love changes, but they don't really love change, they don't want to change. I think this is the big problem about this world. The people just talking, ‘I love the changes,’ it's not true, it's not really true. The people, some of them, if they know better than me what I can do for Gucci, come! Help me. If you know, come to me and we can do work together. I don't want to say that I'm not open to other opinions, but if you want to discuss something, you need to know about the discussion.

And there is one thing that I really believe, if you separate the people and you create two different opinions, you’re doing something. And when you open discussion it means you did something different. You know, I don't like every show. My show, I love all my shows. But of course I'm a fan of other brands. Sometimes I like the shows, sometimes not, I think it’s normal, it’s part of the fashion world. I like when you find something that you don't like in something because it means you watched it. You watch it. Not just be a part of the moment.

So you like engaged opinion.

I love fashion, and I think most people love the idea of fashion. I love fashion. Not just the idea.

I'm curious to hear more about your relationship with social media. I think part of what you're speaking to is related to the fact that so much fashion is consumed through Instagram.

I love Instagram. But if I invite you to watch the show, watch the show, not the sharing. And the people just after three seconds, they have already written the review about my show. Wow, they're so fast. Oh, they're so good at their job. Five seconds, the show is still going on, they already have the review. The good one and the bad one. They have already decided their position. But I love people talking online. I'm talking about journalists.

Talking about me, yeah. Back to your men’s show. I’m curious where you find inspiration. Are you looking at real people on the street? Where do your ideas for menswear come from?

Real people for sure. When I travel I have a lot of opportunity to stay with real people and watch them in the street, in the club, in the restaurant. I'm a clubbing man, I love to go to the club and I love music. One of my passions is music, that's why I started my collaboration with Mark Ronson. But yes, people inspire me a lot, and I love when the people are in a way reverent.I love when the people are very formal, but add a touch of their personality in their look. This inspires me a lot.

Of course there are some artists that I like. I really love Lucio Fontana for the colors but also for the intention of his work. And there are many things, but it's very difficult to answer because it's part of my instinct.

So we have actually already seen some of your men's wear designs. Ryan Gosling has been wearing a tuxedo of yours on red carpets. How did that moment and relationship come about?

In September everything was new, and the celebrities that came to the show, some of them I met before but some of them I just met backstage. I told my team I wanted to build relationships. Maybe I would like them, maybe not. Paul Mescal is another example, because I met him in July, we had dinner together. With all the people that are a part of my campaigns, I don't want to just pay them to do something. We decided to have him for the loafer campaign, and I said, Okay, he can be in the campaign, but I want to meet him. I don't want to know him just on the set. So he comes to Rome, we have dinner together, we have lunch, spend time together. And now I can't say we are friends, because friendship is something important and we need more time. But we have a really nice relationship. He knows my family, I met his sister and his brother. To me, this means humanity, and I like that.

And the same with Ryan Gosling. I met him for the first time at the show, and now I know him more. And I like that. I want to have joy when I do this job. I never want to forget, Gucci is something that I love and I'm proud to be here, but I think my life is more interesting than my job. Gucci is a job. It's a part of my life, a very big part of my life, but I have my husband, I have my dogs, I have my family, I have my friends. There are many things that I love, that I want to do. It's a part of me of course, because it's an expression of myself, but I want to stay as Sabato.

Tom Ford has said something like: in order to be a successful women’s designer, you have to live and breathe it, 24/7. You can’t think of anything else. Your conception of the job is maybe updated for 2024.

When Julia Garner wore my dress to the Golden Globes, I saw her interview on the red carpet. They asked her about the dress and Gucci, but what I appreciated was she said that she loved to work with me because I'm a nice person. The dress is a dress. But the people? The dress is just for one night. Your personality is for life.

Tell me about the concept of the collection.

The concept is a mirroring of the September show. Mirroring means it’s not exactly the same, but I put a lot of things from September in the show. I’m opening the show with the same outfit.

Why did you want to do that?

What I did, I really loved. It was my first show for Gucci and I really believe in what I did, and this means I still believe in that.

You’re doubling down, in a way.

Yeah, it's me. I want to make the people understand my vision. I think mirroring the show will help people understand what I want to do better. I just want to deliver a wardrobe of a collection. It’s my basic wardrobe. And after I’ll start to build an aesthetic on that.

What is your relationship with Tom Ford's work at Gucci?

I never met him. I really appreciate him. You know what, the weird thing is, my first fashion piece that I bought was a Tom Ford jacket. It's strange that now I'm here. I still have it. Of course now I'm different, I can't wear it, I'm grown. But I would love to meet him. He's iconic, he did a lot for Gucci but also for the fashion industry.

Do you have any pre-show rituals yet?

Crying.

Really?

When I finish everything I just want to be alone and… phew.

And then what will you do after, once it's finished?

My family comes to the show, and my friends. For sure I want to spend time with them. And hear the opinion of my mom and my husband, that’s it, they’re the only important ones in my life. And the day after, I’ll spend it thinking about the mistake of the show, if there are any.

What mistakes did you learn from the day after the first one?

The first show in the end was exactly what I had in my mind. I still love it.

So how do you feel right now, two days before your men’s show?

Honestly, I don't feel the pressure. Not because I'm the best, I don't think that, just because I deliver things that I like. And if I'm conscious about that, this is the good way to do this job. Because if I start to think about the critics or the comments—everyone will have a solution for something, or everyone wants to suggest something. This is the word: confident. I really love the collection, from look one to the last look. And I feel very confident.

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Originally Appeared on GQ