Interview With Jazmin Jones on Seeking Mavis Beacon: “You Are an Expert in Your Own Experience”

Making movies is a vulnerable act. You're inviting an audience into your mind to see the world through your eyes, hoping they hold your curiosities with care.

In Seeking Mavis Beacon, we see the question dancing around director Jazmin Jones' mind: What happened to the most recognizable woman in technology, Renée L'esperance?

The attempt to answer that question comes in the form of a coming-of-age tale crossed with a piece of investigative journalism. Jones boldly puts herself in the narrative and invites audiences to come along for the ride.

To share a film as vulnerable as this with one person is a bold act, let alone the thousands who have trekked to the snowy mountains of Park City, Utah, for the renowned Sundance Film Festival.

To get insight into how it feels to share her story with the world for the first time, we spoke to Jazmin Jones about what it has been like bringing Seeking Mavis Beacon into the world.

Related: Seeking Mavis Beacon Review: Jazmin Jones’ Directorial Debut Is a Triumph

Billie Melissa: First question, how is your Sundance going? How does it feel having people receive your film for the first time?

Jazmin Jones: Oh, it's so exciting. This was five years in the making. I've never made a feature film before and there’s a lot of playing with form in this film that I wasn't sure about how it would land. Growing up in the Bay Area Video Coalition, we were advised against fast paced/MTV style editing and so I’m very self conscious about that. Seeing that people are able to keep up with the speed of the film and all of the thought that we put into it, as well as seeing that people are sinking their teeth into the research is so affirming to me.

BM: I saw you had said that throughout this process you found your own voice as a director, and because it is your first film — which is amazing, by the way — I wanted to know how the process evolved after you discovered your voice and decided to trust your instincts?

JJ: I was surrounded by people who really love and care about me. Olivia was incredibly trusting, which actually added to some of the pressure. Her being like, “Sure, you can record me, I trust that you're going to reflect my character in a real way” when there is a long legacy of genius sidekicks in movies like this was a big deal to me. Then also, my producer, Guetty Felin, she was my first mentor in cinema. She made a film Ayiti Mon Amour, in Haiti, and the whole philosophy was “There is no real film industry here in Haiti, so we're gonna just train everybody to do the things. It takes a village.” She trusted me to shoot second camera for that film, when I didn't have any credits that allowed for that.

BM: That’s great.

JJ: Yeah, so turn to your community. Having people who care about you on set is really important. Guetty Felin is my mother in law, for all intents and purposes. My partner, Yeelen Cohen, who is the DP, we've been in a relationship for 11 years, and their brother is the sound person. So, I have their whole family behind me. To be honest, on our first day of officially shooting, after the NEON money hit, I had an emotional breakdown, and we had to pause. So, being surrounded by family in that moment, was so important, because it would be really embarrassing to be on a union set with a bunch of dudes that are like, “so are we gonna get overtime?” So, it was just really nice to be held in that way. I feel really lucky.

BM: I was really moved by your choice to infuse so much vulnerability into the film, particularly when you were having conversations about not knowing what you were doing or what was going to happen next. So many of us sit alone and experience that by ourselves so to see someone go through that on screen and not in a manufactured way felt really beautiful. Was it an easy choice to leave those moments in? Were you worried about being perceived in that way beyond the set?

JJ: I have to shoutout one of my mentors at The New School who does a lot of personal documentary work that is often really ethically complicated. I think the idea of being a self involved documentarian is what I was trained to be, where you put yourself on camera, make everybody kind of uncomfortable and see what happens. So that felt natural to me. When we were getting ready to roll, I was like “Wait, however I behave, however my hair and makeup look is going to be immortalised for all of time for the world to look at,” then I started to get in my head. But, I do think that overall my directorial instincts took over the vanity and the fear of being perceived. I had to remove that from my mind and I think it worked to our advantage when it came to the cinematography. In previous years when I was shooting and editing myself, I had control over everything, so for me, a lot of this process was about relinquishing control, and trying to do my best to just articulate what it is that I would like to happen.

BM: I had a question about taking the audience along for the journey with you as you uncover the information. A lot of documentary films decide to do all the research for the audience, and then present them with their findings, so I was curious about why you decided to let us go on the ride with you?

JJ: I hate watch a lot of true crime and it feels really icky, and then what'll happen is I'll put on a six part series and about two episodes in, I don't remember any of the names or the dates or the times. So, I just knew going into it this film that I’m not interested in dates and times. I'm interested in the feelings and the philosophical questions that it opens up. Also, I think, a lot of times, documentaries like to pose themselves as being objective, but they’re not. So I was like, “look, there's a lot of information here, and some of it can't be fact checked, we’re just going on word of mouth.” I wanted to make sure that the audience knew who was behind making this thing so they would have someone to hold accountable. I also wanted it to be like a road movie and a buddy film. All of this research is made more seductive and whimsical through it being brought to life through Olivia and I, and our analysis and the insider conversations we're having.

BM: That was the draw for me. It was a coming-of-age story over many years and we got to grow not only with you but also with the research. Something I’d love to know is how making this film made you think about your own relationship with technology?

JJ: I think I started off in a super conspiracy theory space of “the internet's gonna take over you, there’s nothing you can do, your FBI agent has all your info,” and through collaborating with Olivia — who actually understands how technology works on a more granular level — I think it made room for a lot less cynicism. There's a clip of Olivia teaching her class on her 18th birthday in the film, talking about how we need to treat our conspiracy theories as intuition. Something else that she said in that class is that everyone talks about technology being used as a tool for surveillance, and that's true, but also a tree could be a tool for surveillance if you climb up it.

BM: Interesting!

JJ: I think seeing how Olivia approached the ethics and technology in both a blunt and playful way at the same time, I was like, “This is what's missing for me”. I will run away with a conspiracy that I'd never fact check and just tell everybody that we're doomed, but that’s not true. Olivia also reminds me that I have a lot more autonomy and control over my digital footprint than I thought. I think, at the beginning of this, I felt like all of that information is just out there and there's nothing you can do, but Olivia has reminded me you can call a Data Broker and tell them that they don't have permission to put your information online. I was someone who was just putting it all out there, feeling like it’s permanent and now I feel as though I have a lot more control in the process. Also I took inspiration from Renée, where it's like… you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

BM: I’ve seen friends who have also seen the film say it has made them rethink the way they use social media. What do you hope audiences take away from Seeking Mavis Beacon?

JJ: Olivia and I, we have a clear politic, but we've gone to great lengths to make this film ask more questions than it answers. I think that it's easy to get into a place where we say “this shit is terrible, and bleak” but we also wanted to encourage viewers to lean in and to not just opt out and go off the grid. If we do remove ourselves from these conversations and the beta testing, then it's only going to continue to harm us and not consider our needs. I hope that viewers feel simultaneously empowered to engage in these conversations and also know that you don't have to be a guy in Silicon Valley or a programmer to have really smart thoughts and analysis about what's happening to us. If anything I'm more interested in people who are not in Silicon Valley and what they have to say about the future of technology. I just hope it's accessible. I just hope everybody leans in and remembers that you are an expert in your own experience.