Hosts of SiriusXM's TikTok Radio talk music trends, their favorite TikTok songs and more
If you want to really hear the songs of the moment, you should be listening to SiriusXM's TikTok Radio. Gibson Johns interviews the co-hosts of the channel — Davis Burleson, Masani Musa, Lamar Dawson, Taylor Cassidy and Jess Lucero about working together as hosts, what their favorite TikTok music trends are right now and which they don't really get. They also pick old songs they wish could have a moment in 2023, Taylor Swift and Beyoncé's tours and more.
Video Transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING]
GIBSON JOHNS: Hi, guys. Welcome back to "We Should Talk," a pop culture interview series from "In The Know." I'm your host, Gibson Johns. And today on the podcast we have the hosts of SiriusXM's TikTok Radio. They were not all available at the same time. So first, you'll hear an interview that's one-on-one between me and Davis Burleson, who is one of the co-hosts. And we talked all about the gig, and TikTok sounds, and music, and what pops off there.
And then I kind of had a similar conversation with the other four co-hosts of TikTok Radio, which are Masani Musa, Lamar Dawson, Taylor Cassidy, and Jess Lucero. And they're both really fun conversations. And again, we talked about just sort of like the general TikTok music landscape, how it affects music in general.
And you know, when I think about radio, and historically, it sort of feels like radio has always been like a little bit late to the game, late to reflecting like what people are listening to online, or want to hear in that moment. But TikTok Radio is the complete opposite of that. It's reflecting the trending songs of now, what you're hearing on your FYP, or maybe what your friends are hearing, but you're not hearing, and you should be hearing.
So it was really fun to talk to them about which artists are great at catering to that, what their favorite TikTok songs have been over the years. We talked about some of the year of Taylor and Beyonce. I asked them to choose, which was a little bit unfair, because I don't think you have to. And it's not about comparison. It's more just about like celebrating the year that both of those artists have had, the dominant years.
So yeah, two great conversations, and you should definitely check out SiriusXM channel 4, TikTok Radio, which they all are co-hosts of. So keep listening for my interview with the hosts of SiriusXM's TikTok Radio.
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All right, so we are here with Davis Burleson, one of the co-hosts of SiriusXM's TikTok Radio. Davis, how are you today?
DAVIS BURLESON: I'm good. How are you?
GIBSON JOHNS: I'm good. So you're coming off an interview with Olivia Rodrigo. And I know you've probably-- I think you've interviewed her in the past, but, like, since you just had this one happen, how did it go? Give me the lowdown.
DAVIS BURLESON: It went so well. Olivia is so nice. And she's one of the only people that I've interviewed that is similar in age to me. So I kind of feel like we like went to high school together. We're just kind of like friends at school. She's so nice. And I've been-- I was really excited to talk to her ahead of her new album. So I got to talk to her literally the day before it came out. And she was kind of very anxious about it, and like didn't know what to expect. And I'm so happy with the results because everyone loves it so much. So I'm just very proud of her.
GIBSON JOHNS: Totally. And it's cool because she is one of the-- I mean, there's a longer list now of artists and celebrities who really understand TikTok, and like the power that it has to, obviously, like power their music. But like, she's one of the really, like, native people who understands that. So do you feel like she has an understanding of like your platform as well, and you kind of can speak the same language in that way?
DAVIS BURLESON: Totally. I mean, we very much know TikTok and know what people like and what people don't like. And I think for-- especially with her music, like, she-- every single song on her album can be used in a TikTok trend, and it has already. People are using them. And also, too, when I was in my interview with her, the way we even bantered, I could kind of tell that she knew that our clips are going to go on TikTok. So we kind of worked together in that way. And our TikTok clips did very well, too, for SiriusXM. So that was really cool.
GIBSON JOHNS: It's so interesting. It adds a whole other level to just an interview. You know what I mean?
DAVIS BURLESON: Totally. I mean, when I am doing longer form interviews, I have about 10 minutes. But I'm not just-- in my head, I'm not just thinking about the 10 minutes. I'm also thinking about the clips that I can get for TikTok, because that's the most important part. And that's the part that people actually see before they go watch the longer interview.
GIBSON JOHNS: Right. And so you have your show on TikTok, which has really helped you build your platform, and probably led to opportunities like this one, and co-hosting this channel. Like, how did doing that show and getting all that practice under your belt-- because, I mean, you're doing "man on the street" interviews, like, all the time. How did that prepare you for something like this, which is like a different kind of level of interview or different kind of platform, at least?
DAVIS BURLESON: My show has definitely taught me so much, because I-- the main thing that I've learned is how to work quickly on my feet. Because of my show, I'm running up to strangers on the street. And I have no-- I know nothing about them. I have no idea what to expect. And I don't even know if they are willing to talk to me. So I'm kind of just working with what I got and being very much in the moment.
And I can handle the sound of silence very well. Like, I know how to-- if the person can't talk, I know how to recover and, like, take it from there. So I feel like in my longer interviews and working on the radio, I've kind of been able-- because of my experience on my show, I've learned how to properly interview someone, and how to properly speak, and what pauses to make, when there's room for silence, when there's not, all that kind of stuff.
GIBSON JOHNS: Totally.
DAVIS BURLESON: When you can say, um, and uh, and, like.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yes. And I feel like you probably realize that, like, interviewing a celebrity versus interviewing a reg-- like just a regular citizen, like, there is-- I mean, you can employ the same kinds of tools and thoughts when you're asking those questions.
DAVIS BURLESON: Totally, totally.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah. So TikTok radio, it's really meant to reflect, like, the music trends, what's happening on TikTok, like what people are really listening to in that moment. Right now when you think-- when I mention those kind of things, what are you thinking? Like, what pops to the top of your mind that are the biggest songs on TikTok, that are the biggest trends that you're seeing, and that you want to play on TikTok radio?
DAVIS BURLESON: Um, wait. Sorry. Are you asking what songs are the biggest right now or what [INAUDIBLE] are looking for?
GIBSON JOHNS: Like, I mean, like when I was saying, like TikTok Radio is meant to reflect what people are listening to or what's popping on TikTok right now. Like, what pops into your mind?
DAVIS BURLESON: What pops into my mind? Well, honestly, Olivia Rodrigo really pops in my mind right now. I'm trying to think of what else. I've been playing her a lot. It's actually been-- my favorite thing about the radio, about playing TikTok Radio is how every-- I do it twice a week. And you can kind of-- and we play the most popular songs. And it's interesting to see a song that was on the very bottom in its first week, and now I'm playing it week after week after week after week. And it's kind of like, why did this one continue to pop off so much?
And a lot of it is if it becomes like a universal trend, where you don't even have to speak English to understand it, if it's a dance, that's typically what will make a song be really successful. The one that I remember so well, that was like on-- that I was playing for like 14 weeks or something was "Unholy" by Sam Smith and Kim Petras.
GIBSON JOHNS: Oh, yeah.
DAVIS BURLESON: It was kind of like a running joke, like I was on-- and by the end of it on the radio, I was like, I cannot believe that people are still listening to this song. But they are.
GIBSON JOHNS: That's stuck around. That song stuck around.
DAVIS BURLESON: Stuck around, yeah.
GIBSON JOHNS: And it won a Grammy, so good for them, you know?
DAVIS BURLESON: Good for them. Good for them. Yes.
GIBSON JOHNS: Exactly. But I mean, that kind of speaks to something that I was curious from your perspective what you thought of, which is like, I think the cool thing about TikTok is that somebody can blow up overnight, and they can get this smash hit, just kind of like off of one trend in like a week, basically.
But then the flip side of that is that sometimes-- or I would say, a lot of time, that person or that song will sort of disappear the next week, and then you won't hear about that person or that song ever again. In your mind, when you're looking at what works on TikTok and what stays relevant on TikTok, or when somebody can follow up a hit with another one--
DAVIS BURLESON: Yeah.
GIBSON JOHNS: --who does that really well? Or like, what's sort of the secret to that sauce? Because I feel like it's not everybody's figured it out.
DAVIS BURLESON: Right. I would say without a doubt, Ice Spice is one that has crushed it and nailed it. And I remember-- I remember when her first song came out. We were playing it on TikTok Radio. And I remember saying like, I don't know who she is. I just know of her orange hair. And people are really obsessed with her right now.
And I remember saying like, I don't know if this is like-- this is the only one song, or are we going to see more from her? And then after that, it was hit after hit after hit, and people on TikTok just became obsessed. And now she's like an A-list celebrity. So it was really cool to, like, see that progression. And I think it was not only just her music, but it was also her as well. So I think her personal brand, and her image, and her look had played a huge role into her success.
Also, low-- [INAUDIBLE]. It's spelled LaFe. But she's a very talented artist. And we've been playing her for a while now. And she has just blown up, and her TikTok fans are so incredibly dedicated. She has like 2.6 million followers. And they're all following her not just because of her music, but because they just like her. And because they like her, they are streaming, and it's actually going towards ticket sales now.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah. And you can tell, like, when the fandom feels more invested, or stronger, or more-- or they're galvanized more behind that person, probably.
DAVIS BURLESON: Totally. And it's all because of their TikTok. I had her-- I had her on my "What's Poppin?" show. We met up in the park. And I had her on my show. And I remember saying before she came on. I'm like, this is going to do really well, because her fans on TikTok are crazy. And the video, I think, literally has 1.1 million views now. And like, the whole comment section is everyone just freaking out about her.
GIBSON JOHNS: That's amazing. Do people reach out to you to be on "What's Poppin?" to, like, to promote things, or like they see the power in your show, and the platform that you've created, like, and just sort of launch something?
DAVIS BURLESON: Yeah. Recently, a lot more. It's been very fun. So we'll have a lot of artists come on and promote their music ahead of, like, an album release or a single release. Like, we just had Renee Rap on, which was very fun. Love her. And LaFe. And yeah, tons of people have come on, which has been really fun. And sometimes--
GIBSON JOHNS: What's that--
DAVIS BURLESON: Sorry.
GIBSON JOHNS: What's that-- sorry-- what's that feeling, though, like, that you can, like, help-- you can help bolster somebody's career, or make-- or help make a song happen, or you know what I mean? Like, that's a pretty cool, you know, just power to have.
DAVIS BURLESON: It feels really cool, and it's exciting. And it's not just me. But it's also--
GIBSON JOHNS: Of course.
DAVIS BURLESON: But also them, of course. But it is really cool that people want to come to the park and do this kind of like as a one thing on a press tour, kind of just-- it takes 10 minutes, seriously. And it could get a million views, and it's totally worth it.
GIBSON JOHNS: Mhm. How is being a co-host on SiriusXM's TikTok Radio? How has that sort of like broadened your idea of, like, what you're capable of, or what your platform can be, or what kind of opportunities you can get from this?
DAVIS BURLESON: It has been the best thing ever for me. I literally got this job because of my show, and because they saw that I could speak and talk. When I first started, they were like, slow down, because I was used to TikTok, where I was-- where every second is counted for on TikTok. You have to talk very, very, very fast. And so they were like, slow down. And I very much have practiced and learned. And I can speak a lot slower and enunciate my words properly. And I'm just wondering now where my speech therapist is, because I had a speech therapist for eight years growing up.
GIBSON JOHNS: Wow.
DAVIS BURLESON: I couldn't say my Ses. So I'm just grateful for that, that--
GIBSON JOHNS: Give it up.
DAVIS BURLESON: Give it up for her.
[LAUGHTER]
But yeah, no, this job has opened up a lot of doors for me. And I've got to go to the Golden Globes and the Gram-- I went to the Grammys with SiriusXM earlier this year, which was so cool. And just I got to meet so many artists that I have been such big fans of, which is just, pinch me.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally. So let's end with a couple rapid fire questions. What is your favorite TikTok song of all time? What sticks out to you?
DAVIS BURLESON: Oh my God! My favorite TikTok song of all time?
GIBSON JOHNS: A dance you really liked, one that-- I don't know-- had staying power.
DAVIS BURLESON: Yeah. What had staying power? What was I obsessed with? I mean, probably "Cruel Summer" by Taylor Swift.
GIBSON JOHNS: OK, OK. So that's like a semi TikTok song.
DAVIS BURLESON: I know. It's just like I played it on the radio for a very long-- on TikTok Radio for a very long time.
GIBSON JOHNS: OK. There we go.
DAVIS BURLESON: [INAUDIBLE] technically a TikTok song.
GIBSON JOHNS: Perfect.
DAVIS BURLESON: But also "Driver's License" by Olivia Rodrigo is kind of like a timeless piece.
GIBSON JOHNS: Quintessential, 100%. Is there one that you-- is there ever one that you're just sort of-- you don't have to even name names. Like, is there ever one that you're sort of like, I don't really get why this is popping off?
DAVIS BURLESON: "Unholy," "Unholy."
GIBSON JOHNS: OK. It wasn't for you.
DAVIS BURLESON: It wasn't for me.
GIBSON JOHNS: OK. Is 2023 the year of Taylor Swift or the year of Beyonce?
DAVIS BURLESON: 2023, oh, It's hard. But I think-- I think they both have different categories making them just as equal. But I think right now with everything that's going on with Taylor in terms of her dating life, I would say Taylor.
GIBSON JOHNS: OK, all right, fair answer. I agree it's both, but fair answer. What is dominating your FYP right now?
DAVIS BURLESON: Dominating my FYP-- TikTok finally has realized my obsession with birds, which is very, very exciting for me, because I've been trying to get on the bird side of TikTok. So I'm seeing ducks and pigeons. And every animal on my For You Page, I'm very excited about that. And then just a lot of Olivia Rodrigo, like, seriously, a lot.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Well, she does such a good job of, like, taking the bit of her song, like you said, and I mean, she's done it for every single one of her songs on her album. And it's like you see a different thing happening every hour.
DAVIS BURLESON: I know. A different trend for each one. There's one where her song "Ballad of a Homeschooled Girl," where you show a photo of yourself from her first album, "Sour," and now, when her-- two years later with "Guts."
GIBSON JOHNS: With "Guts."
DAVIS BURLESON: And the way you looked, and like--
GIBSON JOHNS: Love that. And lastly, you know, a lot of-- TikTok breaks a lot of new songs, a lot of new artists, but it also, obviously, brings back a lot of random old songs. What's an old song that you would like to see get its due on TikTok now?
DAVIS BURLESON: Oh, an old song I want to see have a comeback is "Love Song" by Sara Bareilles.
GIBSON JOHNS: Oh!
DAVIS BURLESON: That is one that has a special place in my heart. And I feel like people, Gen Z-- I am Gen Z-- but I feel like they need to hear more of it. Also, "Sweet Escape" by Gwen Stefani.
GIBSON JOHNS: Two very different--
DAVIS BURLESON: Because "sour milk on the floor," like her fast rap, kind of, I think, would literally hit so well on TikTok. People would love that.
GIBSON JOHNS: Totally. Yeah, both of those are sort of like the iTunes era of life. And so, like, we need them brought into this era.
DAVIS BURLESON: We need them back.
GIBSON JOHNS: Totally. Well, Davis, thank you so much for taking the time to talk. When can people listen to you on SiriusXM's TikTok Radio?
DAVIS BURLESON: You can listen to me on channel 4 on Sirius XM. And you can find me on TikTok, Instagram, @davisburleson, and @whatspoppinshow.
GIBSON JOHNS: Awesome. Thanks so much.
DAVIS BURLESON: Thank you. Nice to meet you.
GIBSON JOHNS: All right, so we are here with four of the five hosts of SiriusXM's TikTok Radio. Masani Musa, Lamar Dawson, Taylor Cassidy, and Jess Lucero. How are you guys?
JESS LUCERO: Doing great.
LAMAR DAWSON: Great. How are you?
MASANI MUSA: Good.
GIBSON JOHNS: We're all calling in from different cities. I love that we're making this work.
[LAUGHTER]
So I mean, just to kick it off, I mean, so TikTok radio, it's-- I think, sometimes, I think of, like, regular radio, and it kind of is behind on the times, sometimes. You know, it's playing a song that was big online a month after it kind of hit popularity, but TikTok Radio is kind of the direct opposite of that. It's meant to reflect what's going on on TikTok, the music trends, what's popping off. So when I say, like, a TikTok song, or a TikTok artist, or a dance that's happening right now that you're really into, what pops into your mind?
TAYLOR CASSIDY: Ooh, for me right now, it would have to be "Water" by Tyla. That has been all over my FYP. And it's going viral because of this dance that requires a prop. You literally have to have a water bottle. And while you're doing the dance, you have to make something shake, literally. And it went viral. And I love it. I'm still trying to figure out the dance, but one day I'll be able to do it. That's--
GIBSON JOHNS: You got it. I believe in you.
[LAUGHTER]
JESS LUCERO: I also think of "Greedy" by Tate McRae because everyone is using it for the Tube Girl video right now, where they're like zooming out in 0.5, and just basically making their own music video. She started it by making a music video on the tube in London, which I thought was super cool. But I also just love Tate McRae's music in general. So I think that song is a banger, and I'm glad it's getting the attention it deserves.
MASANI MUSA: OK. I think of a song that is like quickly emerging, and I'm sure will be trending very soon is "It Girl" by a TikToker by the name of Aaliyah's Interlude. She's actually like a social media, like, phenom. And she just started releasing music. And I already see people, like, really loving her song, and using it for transition videos. So yeah.
GIBSON JOHNS: Love it. Lamar, what about you?
LAMAR DAWSON: Well, I'm always thinking about the throwbacks. I love nostalgia-- throwbacks from the '80s, '90s, 2000s. So like right now, my feed still has a lot of, like, Christina Aguilera, "Come On Over, Baby" dancing on it. And I feel like it's captured a lot of celebs on TikTok, like you see, like, Tia Mowry and Gabrielle Union doing it together, Amy Poehler doing it with someone. I can't remember who she was dancing with. Tracee Ellis Ross dancing to it. So it's always really cool to see those throwbacks also come back through TikTok and be reintroduced to a whole new generation of people, and then, again, we get to play it on the channel.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally.
JESS LUCERO: Or even made into remixes now, which is super cool about TikTok. You see all these DJs, like, editing all the older music, and making it more modern. I love that.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally. And Jess, you mentioned Tate McRae. And I feel like one thing about that song is that she was teasing it for so long. Like, I felt like we were waiting for that song to come out. And she's somebody who I think of-- who's really great at not just having one moment via TikTok, but just sort of like following it up with something else, sort of as her career continues.
Who else-- like, who else do you guys think of that does a really good job of that? Because I think the one sort of, like, criticism, I think, that TikTok gets in terms of its effect on music is that it can blow somebody up overnight, but then, like, they might disappear the next week, or they might not be able to follow it up with another hit. So who else do you guys think does a really good job at that?
TAYLOR CASSIDY: The first thing that comes to mind for me is Hemlock Springs. She is an amazing music artist. She recently had a hit called "Girlfriend," and it blew up. It has this like '80s feel. And just from her videos hyping it up, talking about how she's making it from her bedroom, and like, oh, she made this song in 10 minutes, even-- like "Girlfriend" was on TikTok Radio for weeks, and now every time I go on her account, she's promoting her music. She just has this community that is, like, die hard for her. So I think even though artists may have a song that gets really viral, and they may not have an immediate hit, just the fact that they have been using TikTok gets them a community so quickly that is so long-lasting, because their talent is so, so long-lasting, too.
GIBSON JOHNS: Right.
LAMAR DAWSON: A few artists come to my mind for a minute, for many different reasons. I think of like a Charlie Puth, who spends all his time showing you his studio, and what he's working on, and things like that, and the song comes out. And you feel like you witnessed it from inception to completion. So you almost have a vested interest there.
I think of, like, dance artists, like Old Atari, who's hopped on TikTok, and really taken advantage of it in that way as well, showing you the process, creating the content with it. I think about Russ, someone else who is using the platform to build community, promote the music.
Then you see him on tour. You kind of just see the whole thing from start to finish. Like, it's almost like instead of waiting for the documentary to drop, you kind of just see it episode by episode, bit by bit, every single time you log on. You see them organizing the setlist, going to the award show, their first show. It's a bit of everything. It's really fascinating to watch.
JESS LUCERO: You know who else-- and I don't think this was intentional, but Addison Rae had a lot of her music leaked before she ended up releasing it, and that drew a lot of hype over her music when it was released, because everyone kind of had an idea of what her music was going to sound like. And I think she got so much attention. When her music finally came out, even though at first it wasn't the greatest attention, but now I think people are like, no, she's a little pop star. She's fun.
GIBSON JOHNS: Masani, anybody else?
MASANI MUSA: Yeah, I think that happened for Steve Lacy. And he's not like the, you know, artist who is going to log on to TikTok, and like be posting, hey, listen to my music. But there was an era where, like, all of his songs would just start to trend back to back to back to back. And his demand, like, grew crazy. His tour was really crazy. It was a whole situation, where, like, you know-- he had the thing where he was at the concerts, and like, telling his fans to, like, shut up while he was performing, but it was really amazing to watch him go from, like, this artist who had been, like, you know, in music for almost a decade to finally have his music trend, and like, become almost like a star overnight, even though he was already like somewhat of a star.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally. And it's funny, because all those different answers just kind of tick-- check a different box of, like, what my initial question asked. Like, it's kind of cool how it all kind of pieces together.
I mean, so you guys are four of the five co-hosts. I interviewed Davis separately before, because that was the only time he had. But you know, when you guys think of you guys as a group, it really kind of feels like you all balance each other out in different ways, whether it's like your interests in different musics, your personalities. Can you guys speak to that a little bit and why this show just works so well with you guys at the helm?
LAMAR DAWSON: I'd say it works well from what you're saying already, because we all have our own unique perspective, because here's the thing, the For You Page is really for you. There are things that, I'm sure, that Jess is seeing that I'm not seeing. Like, I've seen that Tyler water dance, but I've not seen it with the water bottle that Taylor is talking about. So that alone is a different perspective on it.
And again, my content and my area of expertise is around, like, nostalgia. So I really lean into all the, like, the throwback songs that are trending, like Dazz Band, "Let It Whip" is trending right now. Like, I bring that knowledge and that information to the listeners so they understand like, why you're hearing this song from the '80s, or the '90s, or the 2000s all of a sudden. And I give you that context on it, or here's a song that was a remake of this song, and this is why you're hearing it, so forth and so on. So it allows you to have a bit of a different experience with the app, because we're experiencing the app differently as well.
JESS LUCERO: That's what I love about listening to our station. It's hearing-- say all four of us will talk about-- we'll intro "Vampire" by Olivia Rodrigo, but we might all have different takes on our intro. And for me, in particular, I'm like very into pop culture and whatever is trending at that moment. So like, if I'm going to talk about Taylor Swift's music, I'm almost always going to talk about what she's doing in her real life, rather than her music itself. You know I'm talking about? Her and Travis Kelce right now, because, duh, everyone's keeping up with it. So it's just fun to hear all of our different takes.
GIBSON JOHNS: Mhm.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: I completely agree. I also think that, just like you said about how we each have our own different FYPs, and we even said that, like, we're all coming from different cities, we also bring our own life perspectives to each, like, song we intro, or things that we talk about. And from time to time, TikTok Radio even lets us intro our own song of our choosing. So it's really cool to see different life perspectives come into introducing the music, too, because you get a little personal look into each of the hosts' stories. So I think it just puts a little cherry on top to the station.
MASANI MUSA: Yeah. And it's like we're all very different, like everyone has stated. So it just makes it really fun to listen to and engage with, because you really never know what you're going to get.
GIBSON JOHNS: Definitely, definitely. So let's close-- let's spend the last couple of minutes doing a couple of rapid fire questions. When I say, your favorite TikTok song of all time, TikTok song, what pops to your mind? What's something that had longevity? What's something that stayed with you? What's a dance you love?
JESS LUCERO: "Renegade," "Renegade," "Renegade."
TAYLOR CASSIDY: Oh my gosh.
GIBSON JOHNS: An OG.
[LAUGHTER]
MASANI MUSA: I will say, "Passion," Pink Panthers. It just reminds me of TikTok.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah.
MASANI MUSA: I love it.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: This is too, like, very recent, but "Mona Lisa" by Dominic Fike is just--
LAMAR DAWSON: Yes.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: It's coming to my playlist anytime soon.
LAMAR DAWSON: One of my favorites is-- this is a kind of a deep cut, but it's MGMT's "Little Dark Age." Do you guys remember that one that was trending? So the trend was like--
GIBSON JOHNS: Maybe.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: You've got to sing it.
LAMAR DAWSON: No, I'm not going to sing.
[LAUGHTER]
It's "Little Dark Age," MGMT, and it's like one of their lesser known singles. And it was like this Renaissance era photo that you would put yourself into. So you would, like, get dressed up, and pose, and then kind of, like, merge it almost with an AI effect to make yourself look like you're in a Renaissance painting. But I would see that so much, and now I became, like, obsessed with that song. So it's one of my-- whenever I hear it, I just think of TikTok automatically.
GIBSON JOHNS: And Lamar, this one might be mostly for you, but you know, obviously, TikTok is really good at breaking new songs and new artists, but also as we kind of alluded to on this call, like, it also will randomly just bring back an oldie that we forgot about, or loved back then, and you know, we're glad to see it have its moment. What's an old song that you would like to see have its moment in 2023 or 2024?
JESS LUCERO: Ooh.
LAMAR DAWSON: Ooh. Oh my God! [LAUGHS] That's a tough one! Let me think on this for a sec, for a minute.
GIBSON JOHNS: Anybody else have it?
LAMAR DAWSON: Hold on. Let me think.
GIBSON JOHNS: OK.
MASANI MUSA: I think we need to get some Whitney Houston trending, because I feel like--
GIBSON JOHNS: Yes.
MASANI MUSA: I feel like her legacy is so under-celebrated and her catalog is so crazy. Like, I would love for somebody to start a trend.
GIBSON JOHNS: Totally.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: I want more Earth, Wind & Fire. I feel like I need some "In the Stone." Like, that needs to trend. I feel like that has heavy TikTok potential.
LAMAR DAWSON: Yes.
JESS LUCERO: I feel like with Usher playing in the Super Bowl, he's probably going to start trending, because you kind of saw Gen Z wasn't, like, super excited about that, whereas everyone else was like, no, this is going to be so sick.
GIBSON JOHNS: No, he has the hits. Exactly. Yeah.
JESS LUCERO: So that's definitely-- he's going to come back, for sure, as if he wasn't already.
[LAUGHTER]
GIBSON JOHNS: Lamar, [INAUDIBLE].
LAMAR DAWSON: I still don't have an answer.
[LAUGHTER]
I love everything that's been trending. You know, what I would love to see more of is I would love to see more Sade trending. Sade has been trending right now with "Smooth Operator." I'm obsessed with the '80s, so anything from the '80s. So I definitely co-sign on Whitney Houston, because I definitely think that a lot of other divas have had a really great comeback on TikTok, like Celine Dion has had a really big moment. Mariah Carey has had great moments for a lot of her songs throughout her career have been trending on TikTok outside of the holidays, which has been great, because she's getting this rap as like--
GIBSON JOHNS: The Christmas Queen.
LAMAR DAWSON: The Christmas Queen. But just so many other amazing songs in her catalog, and I'm so glad that so many songs are coming back through TikTok. So I would love to see more of that as well.
GIBSON JOHNS: Totally. Yeah, I think some of these artists are doing such a good job at sort of like bringing back their legacy, and kind of reimagining it for 2023. Like, Mariah is doing that right now with all of her kind of anniversary releases. So we'd love to see more of that.
When I say least favorite TikTok song-- something that you didn't get, that just didn't hit for you, because I think that's kind of the flip side, right? Like, we all have our FYPs that are very much built for us. And that means that maybe we're not-- maybe not everything's meant for us, you know? So what's something that didn't really hit for you?
JESS LUCERO: I'm not a big oomph-- oh, go ahead, Taylor.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: No, I'm just saying that's so scary to say. I'm afraid to say.
JESS LUCERO: Meanwhile, I'm over here like, I'm ready to go.
[LAUGHTER]
GIBSON JOHNS: Jess, what were you going to say?
JESS LUCERO: I'm just not a big like, [VOCALIZING] EDM kind of girly. So a lot of that music-- unless people are using it to show like a summer recap, I'm typically going to scroll past a lot of that type of music, you know? I like something that I can sing along to. So there's a few songs under that umbrella.
GIBSON JOHNS: OK. Yeah. Anyone else brave enough to--
[LAUGHTER]
TAYLOR CASSIDY: That was hard.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: It's hard, because it's like TikTok will make something trend, and even on paper, if you feel like you wouldn't like it, TikTok will make you like it. Like, it's so weird.
GIBSON JOHNS: Right.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: But I would maybe say like-- I don't know. That's hard. I'm not sure.
GIBSON JOHNS: Davis said-- Davis said "Unholy" earlier, because it just kind of like was inescapable for so long. So that's kind of-- you know what I mean?
MASANI MUSA: OK.
LAMAR DAWSON: No, I love that. I love when they get kind of repetitive and stuck in my head. That's the whole point of the show. Like, whenever I do my countdown show on Fridays, I'm like, these are the 10 songs that are probably stuck in your head this week. You know what I mean? The songs that you can't get out of your FYP. No matter how far you scroll, you keep hearing the same things. I love that.
I was getting burnt out on "Kiss Me More" by Doja Cat. That was kind of grating on me a little bit. I love that song. And I love her. I love SZA. But I was like, OK, I can't see this anymore.
[LAUGHTER]
GIBSON JOHNS: All right, to end it, for you-- and it's not a comparison, but for you, was 2023-- or is 2023 the year of Taylor Swift or the year of Beyonce?
TAYLOR CASSIDY: I'm going to let y'all answer first.
[LAUGHTER]
MASANI MUSA: Well, I mean, honestly, for me, personally, it's been the year of Beyonce. I think the Renaissance World Tour has been so fun and such a cultural moment for music. Over on my page, like, we've been talking about Beyonce a lot this year. So I mean, maybe I'm a little biased, but I think Beyonce is like the grand supreme of music. So it's been Beyonce for me.
GIBSON JOHNS: OK.
JESS LUCERO: That's so tough, because I'm a Virgo, and I love Beyonce, the queen Virgo. But Taylor Swift is just like-- anytime I make a video about her, everyone goes crazy for that video. And then I also used to work in sports. So her potentially dating Travis Kelce is just like, I cannot escape it. So I would probably have to say Taylor Swift, but I don't like to compare women. This is a tough question.
[LAUGHTER]
GIBSON JOHNS: It's not a comparison. It's more like from your own experience, like, what sort of has been the more dominant person, I think, because I mean, I went to both concerts. Like, for me, it's a tough call, too. But it's just I think it's cool to have the conversation.
LAMAR DAWSON: I don't know if I can choose. On my For You Page, they're both really, really dominant.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yes.
LAMAR DAWSON: You know what I mean? You know, I see so many Taylor Swift songs trending, like, I love the "Karma" dance that trends on TikTok with the little shimmy that she does on tour. It's so cute. Everyone sharing their experiences singing "Cruel Summer" at the top of their lungs at the concert. But then you see the Mute challenge from Beyonce. You know what I mean? Like, you're seeing them both. Both albums were trending, "Midnights," you know, from Taylor, "Renaissance" from Beyonce. Both albums had so many bangbust-- bangbusters-- blockbusters--
[LAUGHTER]
I'm going crazy-- on the FYP. I don't know. I feel like they both have had a fantastic year. And I think that's OK, that they both won.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: I feel like I completely agree with you, Lamar. Like, everybody's FYP is different. And you're going to get different concentrations of the same thing. And I think both artists are powerhouses in their own genre.
JESS LUCERO: Yeah.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: If you were to ask me, though, if you were ask Taylor Cassidy, me, I'm going to have to go with Beyonce, because I could talk about it for hours and hours and hours, like her discography, her longevity, Blue Ivy.
JESS LUCERO: Oh!
TAYLOR CASSIDY: Blink, blink, like her emergence during this tour is just, like, literally setting up the passing of the torch. I'm saying, like, Beyonce, and that's--
GIBSON JOHNS: Totally. Yeah.
JESS LUCERO: I've also never seen so many people dress-- like just prepare for a concert the way they did for the Renaissance tour and for the Eras Tour. It was so cool to watch how much effort they put into their outfits.
GIBSON JOHNS: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, I think in some ways they fueled each other, you know? I think they're these two blockbuster tours that just-- you know, I think there was an energy this summer, especially that just felt so kind of once in a lifetime, you know? Yeah.
MASANI MUSA: A lot of girl power.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yes.
MASANI MUSA: Definitely.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: Yeah.
GIBSON JOHNS: Yeah, totally. So I think that's all the time we have, guys. But if we want to go around the horn and do your own plug for when people can hear you on SiriusXM's TikTok Radio, Taylor, do you want to go first?
TAYLOR CASSIDY: Yeah, sure. You can listen to all of us and me, Taylor Cassidy, on TikTok Radio. That's channel 4 on SiriusXM. And you can find me on TikTok, @taylorcassidyj for Black history videos, motivational videos, all around good vibes, and joy.
GIBSON JOHNS: Jess, what about you?
JESS LUCERO: I'm Jess the Reporter. You can listen to me on TikTok Radio channel 4 on SiriusXM. You can also check me out on TikTok, where I do pop culture deep dives. It's a lot of fun.
GIBSON JOHNS: And Lamar.
LAMAR DAWSON: Yeah. So I am the Dirty King of Pop on TikTok, and I host our countdown show on Fridays at 3:00 PM if you're on the East Coast, 12:00 PM on the West Coast. It's the TikTok Billboard Top 10. Rebranded-- now there's a Billboard chart for TikTok songs, and now we have that countdown on Fridays.
GIBSON JOHNS: And Masani.
MASANI MUSA: I'm Masani Musa. I'm @cultureunfiltered on TikTok. And we're on Sirius XM channel 4 like 24/7. So anytime you listen to the app, you can hear all of us. And if you follow me on TikTok, you can see content about music, hip hop, R&B, and pop culture.
GIBSON JOHNS: Love it. Well, thank you so much, guys. This has been so much fun. And everyone, go listen to Sirius XM's TikTok Radio.
TAYLOR CASSIDY: Yes.
JESS LUCERO: Thank you.
MASANI MUSA: Thank you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
GIBSON JOHNS: Thanks for tuning in to "We Should Talk." I hope you enjoyed the interview. You can find out more about "In The Know" at intheknow.com. You can follow me, Gibson Johns, @gibsonoma on Twitter and Instagram. And you can listen to all of our interviews, past and future, by searching "We Should Talk" wherever you get your podcasts. Hope to see you next time.
