Driving a 1964 Volkswagen Beetle, and the 2021 Kia K5 arrives | Autoblog Podcast #634

In this week's Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Road Test Editor Zac Palmer and News Editor Joel Stocksdale. They start with what they've been driving this week, including the 2020 GMC Sierra 1500 diesel, 2020 Volkswagen Atlas Cross Sport and a 1964 Volkswagen Beetle. They move on to the news, covering the 2021 Kia K5, Geneva Motor Show (canceled again), Maserati's new engine and a new extended reality experience here at Autoblog. Finally, the guys spend some money for a listener who just had twins.

Video Transcript

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[THEME SONG]

GREG MIGLIORE: Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Autoblog Podcast." Welcome to the show. I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today is road test editor and fleet manager Zac Palmer. What's going on, man?

ZAC PALMER: Oh, nothing much. I feel like a new man today. I actually shaved my beard. Been growing a quarantine beard for, like, the whole time, but it's gone. So feeling fresh and new.

GREG MIGLIORE: I'm looking forward to that feeling. I have kind of crazy hair right now. But on my porch, I have some Norelco, like, Clipper things. So I think I'm going to maybe clip it down at some point the next week if I watch enough YouTube videos. But for now, I'm kind of enjoying the puffy hair. It's all right.

Someone else who was rather long hair now is news editor, Joel Stocksdale. Welcome to the show. What's going on with you, man?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Oh, not too much. Trying to stay cool and hoping to get a haircut sometime. I mean, I rock the long hair, but it's-- it's getting a little-- a little extra long.

GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, it works. I mean, I tell you what-- if I find a good video, I'll let you know. If it looks something like that semi, like, safe, you will-- I'm kind of afraid I'm going to start like cutting my hair, it's going to look crazy. But on the other hand, who cares? Where is anybody going? Just wear a hat anyway, so.

All right, but you guys both look in tip top, so we have a great show here. Let's jump right in. Going to review three different things. The Sierra Duramax. Zac had some time with that recently. I spent some time with the Volkswagen Atlas. And Joel had some fun with a classic 1964 Volkswagen Bug. So some pretty interesting cars, some very-- a wide variety of cars here in the fleet. Although two of them are actually VWs, as I look.

Hit the news. Kia revealed the K5. This is interesting. It's their take on the sedan segment, let me put it that way. And I don't know, it looks pretty good. We'll get more into that. The Geneva Motor Show was already canceled for 2021. You knew 2020-- that was just three months ago. But they're already getting ahead of it. Nine months out, they're saying we're done for 2021. We'll kind of break with that-- break down what that means not only for Geneva, which is one of my favorite shows, but also, for auto shows in general. Seems like there may have been a little bit more play here than just the coronavirus, although that certainly didn't help.

Maserati has a new engine. And we also have an extended reality, an immersive reality feature that's up on site. You'll want to check that out. We can explain that. Finally, we will spend some money. We've got a good one for you from a longtime listener, Anthony. So let's jump right in. Zac, what did you do with the Duramax?

ZAC PALMER: All right, start with the truck time. So this was the Sierra Duramax. So obviously, big news here is the diesel. That's new. So I'll start with that and how it drives, because that's definitely the most important thing right here. So it's the i6 3 liter turbo diesel inline six, 277 horsepower, 460 pound feet of torque. The huge takeaway that I have here-- I mean, it's you know noticeable right away-- is how smooth this engine is. You know, you're used to a diesel being loud, makes a lot of noise, whole car shakes. You know, it's not always a very refined experience.

But in the Sierra, and really, any other GM full size truck, including the Silverado that I've driven this in, has been unbelievably smooth. You know, just silky smooth all the way to around 5,000 RPM. So quiet. Just kind of melds into the background. Like, you-- if you walk outside the truck, you can hear that it's a diesel. But from the inside, it's not entirely obvious. You just get that really great down torque.

But it's not-- it's not super fast. It's just sort of like middling of the road. You know, it's no 6.2 liter V8 that you can get in these trucks. It's not as quick as say, like, the 35 EcoBoost in an- F-150. But you're getting pretty good mileage. I actually returned really, really good fuel economy once then on the highway. It was about like 50 miles that I spent on the highway. I got about 29 MPG, which in a full sized pickup as big and huge as this one is was pretty awesome. It's actually rated at 26 MPG on the highway with four wheel drive, which mine was a four wheel drive.

And it was also the AT4 time. That's one of the other things. So you can actually get the diesel with the AT4, which is the off road trim. That's what mine was. I'd argue that it's probably one of the coolest combinations that you can get The GM trucks in. You know, you can get a-- this Sierra AT4, I believe, the Monotube off road Shocks you get some really cool red tow hooks. It's a little bit lifted. It's really, really cool looking truck that you can combine that super efficient diesel engine with.

Now if you're just driving around that AT4, it's a bit punishing. You know, it's a bit more uncomfortable than a regular Sierra without the off road suspension. So I wouldn't actually recommend that anybody who's just going to drive back and forth to work with this thing get the AT4. You actually want to so go off road with it. Otherwise, you're just kind of getting beat up a little more than you need to be.

And then one of the big overarching themes that these GM trucks has just been the poor interior that a lot of people have harped on. This is a $63,565 truck that I was driving. And you know you get in and in a vacuum, the interior is fine. You know, it has a ton of tech features, loaded to the gills with buttons. But if you get in this and you also get an a Ram 1500, you're, like, whoa, where did you know all this money go to? I'm just looking at this big slab of black plastic buttons that is just-- you know, there's not much style there. The screen, it's an 8 inch screen, but it feels small hidden up there at the top. It doesn't feel like a $63,000 luxury, like, truck.

And that's the same with the AT4. I drove a Denali. You know, they throw some token small pieces of wood here. I imagine that GM is going to update this to look more like the new Tahoe and the new Suburban and Yukon. Those interiors are definitely a bit more upscale and the trucks and it shows.

But yeah, overall, like, if you're looking to get the best fuel economy in a full size pickup, this diesel is definitely one of the best to go with. I've driven the Ram EcoDiesel, that is definitely a lot more you know loud diesel, clacking, in-your-face type of diesel driving. This is, you know, maybe you don't really love diesels, but you love the fuel economy that you get from them. And it kind of goes to show, like, how refined this engine actually is, because GM is putting it in the Escalade. The new Escalade will have this as an option. So that just kind of speaks to hey this is a diesel that you can live with on a daily basis and it will not annoy you at all. If you dislike diesels.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's a really interesting point to make there-- that this is going to be in the Escalade. It's a little-- I'm almost surprised, you know, when we first heard that. I was surprised. So I think it's-- you know, frankly, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's also, some of these, like, sort of engine swaps, and just some of these commonalities that you see among, like, vehicles that are you know related on a number of levels-- it just makes sense. You know, there's really no downside here to offering this. And if people don't want that, OK, they don't want it. But I mean, on the other hand, it really makes more money off of it, so.

Thinking about the Sierra, I actually think it's the best looking GM truck right now. I think the Sierra looks better than the Silverado, which I would say I like the Trail Boss. Everything else, I've warmed to it, but I still feel like they kind of muffed that one, if you will, when they did the redesign a few years back. I'm curious what do you think.

ZAC PALMER: I'm 100% there with you. I think the Sierra looks a ton better than the Silverado. And especially in this AT4 trim, you've got a slightly more brawny grill, even though it's not overwrought. It doesn't feel too large in that sense. But no, the styling on the Sierra is-- I take it over Silverado pretty much any day.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's actually kind of where I'm landing on GMCs in general. I like the new Yukon better than I like the new Tahoe and Suburban. I don't know. I just feel like at this point, they're kind of getting that, like, really trucky, like, you know, macho look with, like, the bold Headlights and they're pulling it off in a cool way. Where I feel like Chevy is either too much or not enough. I can't really figure out which, depending on the trim. Cool. Any final thoughts on this Sierra?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Well, it's worth noting that the Sierra AT4, it is functionally identical to the Chevy Silverado Trail Boss. But for whatever reason, the GMC is the only one that's available with the diesel and off road trim. So if you want the higher fuel account and off road capability, the GMC is where to go.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's smart, too, the way I think General Motors tries to do some differentiation between Chevy and GMC. I mean, I don't know, maybe it's not smart, but I at least can see some of that logic there although. If you're, like, a Chevy truck loyalist, you might not be thrilled with that. But so it goes.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah. And the actual option for the diesel on this truck, it's $2,495, which seems sort of steep, you know, when you look at it, but it's not. I mean, if you look at the price for the EcoDiesel on a Ram, I believe that's pushing over $4,000. So it's also a slightly better value and you're going to save money overall, getting better fuel economy.

GREG MIGLIORE: I'll say this that-- you told me that price, I actually wasn't stunned. That's actually right what I would have thought it would have been. And seems pretty reasonable to me. I mean, just in a vacuum, yeah, it's a little bit more money for a diesel that does have some compromises. But just looking at the EcoDiesel and some of the other just diesel taxes you pay. I don't know-- if I were like in the market for this kind of truck and I was looking at different engines, what I want in my truck, that probably wouldn't dissuade me. So I don't know, that's my random thought if I were buying a diesel truck.

All right, did you do anything cool with it? Gotta ask that.

ZAC PALMER: I-- I basically just drove it around town. I took it down a couple dirt roads, but I did not go off roading with it. So, you know, drove it probably how a lot of truck owners are going to daily drive their big old trucks.

GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, that's reasonable. Did you by chance get any, like, take out and then have the guy throw it in the enormous bed or something?

ZAC PALMER: I did not Have anybody throw it in the enormous bed, but I did get takeout, and they just-- you know, parking it on any city street is somewhat comical.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

ZAC PALMER: It is so huge. Like, they'll call you and it'll be like, hey, what vehicle are you in? Oh, I'm in the big white GMC, you know? You won't miss it at all.

GREG MIGLIORE: Right?

ZAC PALMER: Yep. You sit way up high, especially because it's the AT4. You feel king of the road. You know, that's part of the appeal with these things.

GREG MIGLIORE: Absolutely. I took the-- a 2,500 Dura-- no, not Duramax-- 2,500 Sierra to the zoo one time, and put my kid's car seat in there. And, you know, even in metro Detroit, that truck takes up a lot of space in the zoo parking lot. And people were kind of like, OK, we're going to give this guy a little bit of room. And that's OK.

Cool. All right, so that is the Sierra. Let's move along to the Atlas Cross Sport. That's what I drove. I ended up really liking this. I'm a little surprised how much I did like the Atlas Cross Sport. I think, you know, the way the sort of quarantine car board works is-- it probably works this way for you, Joel, too-- is Zac sort of slacks you. Hey, this car is going to be arriving at your doorstep. And, you know, you're, like, OK, what's this, what can I do with this, am I excited, you know? In an Atlas, I'm kind of like, OK, yeah, sure. All right.

But the Cross Sport, which is essentially the like crossover coupe model-- it's not a coupe-- it's a four door, five seat SUV. But it's got that kind of, like, you know, cut roofline. So it's sort of like a budget X5, X6 sort of thing. I like it. Everybody I-- like, when I would pull up and I-- quite a few things this weekend. In this heavy R-Line trim, I should mention that. Everybody is like, that's a cool car. What is that, you know? It just-- because, frankly, again, in metro Detroit, it's just a sea of GM and Ford SUVs and Jeeps.

And, you know, if you go to some of the other you neighborhoods where people drive BMWs and Mercedes, that's great, too. But you don't see a lot of Volkswagen SUVs. So the Cross Sport stood out. I think the looks kind of set it apart a little bit, to use that cliche. And I think the R-Line stuff kind of popped it out a little bit. It was cool. I mean, this one was called-- I don't have the color in front of me, but it was gray. But what it reminded me of is the Nardo Gray that you would see on some of those RS Audi models. And it had the-- it had, like, dark gray wheels. It had just a little bit of chrome.

It was, like-- it was legit cool. I was almost surprised how much, you know, driving this Atlas was something that I began to look forward to. And I put probably 140 or so miles on it ish, you know, maybe a little bit more. The one I drove came in at $40,710, just to be super exact, because I have the Monroney in front of me. It's got the 3.6 liter V6, which is fine. You know, I don't know, that engine is just OK, as far as I'm concerned.

The pricing felt, I'd say, right about right, if you will, given that this is just a grand or two above what's generally believed to be the average transaction price for a new car in the United States. I've heard that's 38. And you can get a lot of different cars for 38. But for 40, you can get a pretty practical SUV.

Yeah, no questions here on the value. So I think that was pretty good. I think the tricky part is there's a lot of different things in this segment. It's very competitive. You may or you may not want to drive this-- you know, the looks of this-- this Volkswagen-- may or may not be the brand you're into. So, I mean, there's a little bit of dissonance with that.

That being said, it did kind of look premium, to go back to the design. Put a bunch of stuff in it. I did get takeout. That fit very well in the back, obviously, because the trunk lifts up. It's basically a hatch. It was a nice car. Nice SUV.

Steering was a little bit light, but you're turning pretty big wheels, so there was a little bit of-- at least some form of weight. Maybe not communicative weight, but weight, nonetheless. Interior was OK. I would say that's a little bit where the Volkswagen even in like our trim, R-Line trim, starts to fall apart. It's pretty basic in there. I guess for about 40 grand, so it goes. But it was just, you know, it was right in there with like Chevy's and, you know, basic Toyotas. There was nothing about this interior that really blew me away other than it was just OK, just fine.

You know, I've driven the Atlas in a number of forms. I drove the three row one down in, I want to say Chattanooga, Tennessee right when this whole like program was launching. I drove a prototype. I sat in the third row and it wasn't bad. I sat back there with a Mercedes head of North America at the time, and he was a pretty tall dude, and he fit OK. So, you know, I feel like they designed the Atlas to really go after the Explorer and vehicles like that. I

Don't think it necessarily has beaten any of them, you know? It's sort of like that classic, you know, you could be as good as somebody, but if you're not absolutely better, you're not going to get people to switch. I do think it's helped a Volkswagen, for sure. But I think it's smart to have this like five seat version, too, with a little bit more of the style play. I could see families that maybe-- maybe they have one kid or they don't have car seats anymore or something. I mean, I don't really know many families even with one child like we have that needs less room, let's put it that way.

But, you know, this thing was-- I mean, I wouldn't call it a commuter SUV, but yeah, I kind of would call it commuter SUV. You get the style, you get some functionality. And, I mean, long story short, it looked pretty good. It was good value. I had fun with it. It's not the best in the segment. It's right about the middle of the pack, I would say.

ZAC PALMER: I-- I'm not normally a fan of crossover coupes. I really don't like the way the X6 looks, the GLE coupe-- most. But the last couple you know from Volkswagen group, the Cayenne Coupe and the Q8, which is also a bit of a coupe-like crossover with that slanted back-- and this one, too-- I like how all of those look. They don't look bulbous or overwrought.

They're just-- it's a subtle coupe. And it actually adds something to the styling for me. And they're also not, you know, hugely taking away from the utility. You know, a Q8 is definitely not as utilitarian as Q7. And a Cayenne coupe is only slightly less utilitarian than a Cayenne, but you're gaining something that looks cool.

And just like your example, you know, you pull up to a lot of people, and everybody's, like, hey, what's that, you know? It's something different than the regular blah shape that we've come to get used to in a whole lot of crossovers. And now you can have it on a slightly cheaper one. You know, before if you wanted, like, a crossover coupe that size, you'd have to get an X6, which is-- yeah, that's super, super expensive. But now there's a Volkswagen, so. It could totally be appealing to people like that. And I actually think it looks kind of cool.

GREG MIGLIORE: Me too. It strikes me as a good vehicle for like empty nesters who maybe are used to driving SUVs, and then kids are in college, you're not, you know, going to soccer practice every day. You still want an SUV to maybe bring them their laundry or something for the weekend if you're that nice of a parents or bring them, you know, whatever. But you don't need a enormous amount of space back there.

And frankly, I'm probably overplaying this-- the hatch doesn't take up that much space. I don't have the number in front of me, but it's still a pretty big cargo hold back there. So yeah, I think that's enough on this Volkswagen. There's probably one that's a bit more interesting, and that is a 1964 Bug. Tell me about this, Joel.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so as a longtime fan of the Love Bug, a '64 Beetle has kind of been close to sort of a dream car for me to try out, because "Herbie" was in 1963. So this is off by one year. And instead of a soft-- instead of a rag top, this had the roof rack on it. And, well, it's not as fast as Herbie, obviously. It only had a 1200 CC engine, only, like, around 50 horsepower.

And despite all that, it's still a whole lot of fun to drive. There's something about it that, like, when you kind of get into the rhythm of how this car drives, it's really engaging. Everything kind of happens in slow motion. You can't really rush it. But when you get like all the gear shifts right, you are just kind of cruising around relaxing, it really all comes together.

It's funny-- a number of things I was very surprised about it. First off, it actually rides really, really well, even going over, like, super potholed roads and stuff. It was really comfortable. Like, really soft suspension and the seats are, like, extra springy. There's lots-- there's lots of give there. So it's actually really comfortable.

And they're built really, really well. You didn't hear any kind of like creaks or rattles. And it didn't feel like it was flexing much. It's just a really solid chunk of metal. Also, we need to bring back vent windows. Vent windows are so nice. Like, it was hot the day that I was out driving this thing, and just opened up the vent windows. And as long as I was moving, I was getting like really nice cool air right over-- right over me. It felt great.

GREG MIGLIORE: Sounds like you had really a lot of fun. This reminds me of a 1960s, like, movie. Like, I know in "The Graduate," they drive an Alfa Romeo Spider. I don't if they drive any Beetles, but it seems like something they might. It sounds like you had a bit of a cinematic day with this thing. What else did you do? I mean, did you get to have-- did you get takeout? I mean, I don't know, what did you-- what does one do for this to have fun?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I mean, I just-- I just drove it a lot. Drove it around--

GREG MIGLIORE: That's good.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: --just kind of city streets and stuff. Cruised it up and down Woodward a few times. Actually, there was a guy in a modified Subaru that I was driving up next to, and he pulled out his camera phone, and started recording the old Bug.

GREG MIGLIORE: Oh wow.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Like, everybody loves this thing. Almost every intersection as people were driving past, they would, like, turn over like, oh, look at that. I was getting thumbs up from all kinds of people. There was a guy and a beat up old van that was like, hey, what year is that? It was, like, '64. And it's like, yeah, I thought it was something like that. I was going to guess a year or two like older or newer. Like, people love this thing.

I was also surprised-- I actually took it on 696 for a little bit. And the it'll cruise at highway speeds without much complaint. Like, it just kind of-- it just rolls with it.

Like, I can see why people like these cars. They were really well-built, and they'd handle whatever you can throw at it. And obviously, it's easy to take care of. I mean, you change the oil and you do a valve adjustment every 3,000 miles, and that's kind of it. Because it doesn't have-- it doesn't have power steering, it doesn't have power brakes. It's all-- it's all manual. And, like, the only things that run off the accessory belter, the fan, and the generator.

GREG MIGLIORE: Pretty cool. Pretty cool. Well, I know you're a big fan of, you know, all sorts of Bugs and Beetles. You bought a 2013 Beetle, is that right, if I recall?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yep.

GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. So you're really just kind of going up and down the history here, which is-- I mean, these are stories you know you can tell people, you know? Like, hey, I drove-- I own this one, I drove that one. And didn't you go on the launch down in Mexico of, like, the final drive of this last generation?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: I don't think we've seen the last of the Beetle in Volkswagen's lineup. I think it might come back. I think maybe they'll bring back the bus. I mean, they are going to-- it's all electric. Maybe the Beetle is the next play. They just-- they've got to maybe build out the business case more for it or get a few breaks in the market, I don't know.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, I would love to see a new electric Beetle. And the new electric power train seems like such a great fit for it, because they're opting for a rear wheel drive with a rear mounted motor, which is classic Volkswagen right there. And--

GREG MIGLIORE: It's kind of awesome to drive, too.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: I mean--

JOEL STOCKSDALE: And, like, I think I remember them saying that, like, the motor itself-- I mean, the battery system is all water cooled for better temperature management, but the motor itself is air cooled, so you'd have the return of an air-cooled, rear motor, rear drive Volkswagen.

GREG MIGLIORE: Very cool. Very cool.

ZAC PALMER: Which is really awesome-sounding.

[LAUGHTER]

Exact format as before. I mean, I had a very similar experience when I had the 1964 Karmann Ghia about three weeks ago at this point. I mean, pretty much everything that you said also applies to that, because while the Karmann Ghia was mostly just a Bug underneath, but no, like, you get those shifts right-- now you have the little needle within the speedometer that tells you where to shift. And, you know, you're just cruising up to 60 miles an hour real nice and slow. It is-- man, it's a blast, just like you were saying. It is a ton of fun to drive around, and everybody gawks at ya, everybody looks, everybody yells. Photos were taken. it's a blase.

GREG MIGLIORE: Very cool, very cool. Yeah, I would say the fleet of classic Volkswagens that came through our-- you know, the Autoblog garage-- was a lot of fun. I didn't get any of them, but, you know, the Beetle, the Karmann Ghia, the bus-- when I forgetting?

ZAC PALMER: The GTI.

GREG MIGLIORE: The GTI, of course.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, Yeah. You

GREG MIGLIORE: Guys had some fun. I'll get the next round. Maybe if we get a classic Alfa, I will just straight up called dibs on that. Not that-- the GTI would have been the car I would've wanted to drive, but that's OK. Byron did a great review on that, so check that out on Autoblog.com. And you know what else you should check out is all the news on Autoblog.com. It's been a fairly interesting week.

Let's talk about the Kia K5. This is their new take, the Optima replacement. It's a stinger sort of inspired, to use our own headline, for the midsize segment. I am cautiously optimistic about This I think Kia and Hyundai have done some pretty good work with their car lineup. I think it looks awesome, but I don't really have much more of a take on it beyond that. I, frankly, don't think most people do.

But initial, like, impressions and a wide variety of outlets has been generally pretty positive. You know, it sounds like we're actually going to get to drive this pretty soon which is a little unheard of in the way these things usually work. But just quick, real quick, what do you think, Zac?

ZAC PALMER: So, you know, the K5 GT is the one that really interests me. That's the one that has a 2.5 liter turbocharged four cylinder and is also going to have all wheel drive. They are bringing all wheel drive to this segment, which is slowly becoming a slightly popular thing to do. We had-- we've always had the Legacy. And then we had the Altima. And now the Camry is all wheel drive. But none of those are really-- you know, like, a really great performance all wheel drive.

Whereas this one-- this one looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. The only thing it's missing is the manual transmission. If you want that, you'll still have to go with the Accord with that 2 liter turbo. So that's still-- you know, I obviously haven't driven this one, but to me, that's still, like, the hardcore enthusiasts midsize sedan.

And then one of the other thought to have is just on the name itself. I'm sort of fine with that change. The name Optima has never really meant much to me. Honestly, it reminds me of Optima Batteries more than anything. It doesn't doesn't-- feel like a cool interesting name to me. I am normally never a fan of going to alphanumerics, but in this case, I am completely fine with that. This feels like a totally-- it's total sea change for this car. It doesn't really feel or look like an old Optima. So bring on the new name. I am super excited for what should hopefully be another good-driving sedan.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I'm with you on the name change like Optima-- Optimus Prime-- doesn't-- you know, like, there is really no brand equity for me in that. So sure, why not? Give it a shot. Joel, quick reaction?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so on the whole, I think it's pretty cool looking. I can definitely see that there are some angles that don't flatter it too much. Fastback roof looks cool on some angles, but in some others, it looks maybe a little bit kind of thick. But there are a lot of cool styling details. I like the really aggressive headlights that kind of merge into the fenders and things. I like the foot lit light bar with kind of the dotted line across the middle. I like how the chrome strip goes from the sides over the windows and loops over the top of the trunk lid over to the other side. It's just some neat styling details. Like, Hyundai and Kia are killing it on the design front.

I'm excited to try out the 290 horse Gt. That should be pretty fun. I'd love to-- I would love to do a comparison sometime. Love, like, the Camry TRD, the K5 GT, the Accord with the 2 liter turbo, the sport model. Like, just pit all of the ultra fast midsize sedans together. Yeah--

GREG MIGLIORE: That sounds fun. Yeah, let's do that.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And I'm kind of-- I'm kind of ambivalent on the name thing. I didn't have a problem with Optima. I don't really have a problem with K5. But it does-- it does seem weird because none of the rest of the Kia lineup uses the alphanumeric system. Every other Kia has an actual name.

ZAC PALMER: A cool name, too. there's A lot of good name.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Soul, Stinger, Telluride, yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: So it's a little weird that just this one car-- well, OK, I guess there is another car that has the alphanumeric system, the K900. And in South Korea, like, all the cars have an alphanumeric that's it's a K and a number. And over in South Korea, the K900 is actually the K9 which you can kind of see is maybe not ideal for a luxury car to have everybody thinking of a dog. Or maybe that's a positive, I don't know.

GREG MIGLIORE: There's a dog daycare by my house called Canine to 5. Your dog goes there during work hours and comes home. So that's what I think of when I think of that car.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Right.

[CHUCKLING]

But I mean, I think it's all right. Yeah, I don't know. It also seems a little bit weird that-- Optima is a name that has been around for a long time. I mean, lots of people have clearly had Optimas and enjoyed them. So I don't know, it's a weird move. I think it's maybe more a lateral move than it is a forward or backward moving decision. But I'm just ambivalent about it. But the car itself looks really cool.

ZAC PALMER: Teag, I do wish that it had an actual hatchback, you know, because it looks like a hatchback. But it's just a normal trunk lid. You know, if they went like old Mazda 6 style, you know, when that sedan had a hatchback-- so utilitarian, so much room-- it would be, like, a huge feather in its cap. But trunk sedan it is.

GREG MIGLIORE: One thing I would point out with the Optima is-- I mean, it's just-- like, the car is pretty good. It's fine. But I don't think it ever, like, found this deep resonance with, like, you know, consumers, if you will. I think they sold enough of them to justify it. Obviously, they're not walking away from the segment. And I think it's dumb that some companies like Ford and Chevy are. But yeah, I don't know.

I mean, to me, the Optima was always, like, a nice car to get through the press fleet, reminded you it existed. Usually was a little quicker than you thought, a little cooler than you wanted-- or not wanted, but expected. And that was about it. I drove an Optima on the track at road Atlanta one TIME which was totally freaky. Like, all the things you could do, that was pretty random.

But yeah, I mean, I could see a play for Kia if they were to make, like, just their sedans and define them as somewhat sporty. And then they went to the alphanumeric, you know, names for those cars, like a K5 and a K8 or something. That would obviously require them changing the name of the Stinger, but I could see a narrow opportunity for that to work. And then you just have the Telluride, you have the Soul, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't know. I think we've really gone with the name-- we've played the name game here.

Let's move on to other quick few news hits. Geneva Motor Show canceled already for 2021. This is sad, because I love the Geneva Motor Show. Joel, you wrote the story, though. You could explain it better than I.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so Geneva-- the organizers the Geneva Motor Show announced that they are not doing a 2021 show. And that's pretty early on, because the Geneva show happens in kind of beginning of March every year. So not quite a full year away from it, but they're already canceling.

The reasons for this-- part of it is because of ongoing health concerns. That not entirely sure that the coronavirus pandemic will be completely under control by the time that the next show rolls around. And they also surveyed a bunch of manufacturers that usually exhibit at the show, and most of them said that if the show was going to happen, they probably wouldn't come. So even if they did have a show, it's likely that they would have had a much, much smaller number of exhibitors and thus, not a very good show, probably not much revenue. So they're just, like, you know what? We're just not even going to bother. And hopefully, we can do a 2022.

Now a 2022 show is also kind of murky, because the organizers of the Geneva show are in kind of a financial pickle. They had to cancel the show at the absolute last minute, so they weren't able to recoup a lot of their expenditures from this past show. And they are hoping to get a loan from the state of Geneva government to help cover some of those costs and to also help them get kind of a head start for the next show. And the government gave them an offer, but first off, it would have required them to have a show this year. And it was going to require them to start making at least, like, a million Franc repayment just a month or so after that show would have happened.

And, I mean, obviously, they don't want to do a show this coming year. And even if they did, it would have been a low turnout. They might have still had kind of a rough time starting to make repayments. So the loan idea is out the window. And what they're hoping to do is they're hoping to sell off all the rights to the show and all the stuff associated with it to the company that owns the convention center where the show is hosted.

That has not been approved yet. And there's a whole lot of question about whether there will be a Geneva show at all. Like, if the sale doesn't go through. And even with so many cancellations, like, are people going to find an alternative to an auto show.

I still have hope that there will be one, because as the organizers pointed out, the Geneva Motor Show is the biggest public event held in Switzerland, period. So it brings lots and lots of people and that can be a boom for the local economy. And the Geneva show is such a big show for really small automakers and supercar automakers, because it gives them a chance to show their stuff. And it's a chance to find investors and even just people to buy their supercars, period. So I have a feeling that it will come back, but yeah, it'll obviously be a little while.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's a cool breakdown. And I think that's one sort of understated element of the Geneva show, as we talk about shows like LA and Chicago being consumer shows and Geneva is just this glitzy European show-- it is a consumer show, actually. It's just a consumer show for millionaires, who go there to like buy their like, you know, tuner S Classes and things like that. Because you've been-- how many years did you get to Geneva, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I was actually only there once.

GREG MIGLIORE: OK, you went once. Zac, you probably never made it to Geneva, right?

ZAC PALMER: Never been to Geneva.

GREG MIGLIORE: You may not at this point, we'll see, I don't I.

ZAC PALMER: Don't know what I'm missing out on.

GREG MIGLIORE: I made it-- geez-- I made it four straight years. And it was-- I would say it is one of the cooler shows you can get to. It was actually the first time I'd been to Europe, so obviously, it gives me like a soft spot. And then the trip included going from Geneva to a drive-- it was a Volkswagen Tuareg somewhere in Tuscany. So when you talk about press trips that probably aren't going to be a thing anymore, that's one right there that you're probably not going to see that level of decadence in the automotive media anymore.

But no, it was a great show for news. It was a great show for all the cool things you can see. All the executives were there. Not so much the domestics, but they usually had some kind of a presence, which I found interesting. Like, you might go there and say, Alan Mulally or somebody would be speaking, but he'd be speaking more as the role of like the head of Ford. it's almost like this foreign company, you know? Like the American CEO is coming in-- generally, didn't see a GM CEO there. I'm not sure I ever did, although I may have seen Bob Lutz once.

Because he-- people won't remember this-- he nominally headed Opel for about a month when they were trying to, like, sell it off or, like, really control their board or something. He was literally, like, the chairman of Opel. And they had this amazing concept, too. So-- so yeah, I mean it's a really great show. Especially you could really see Alfas and Ferraris there in a way that, like, some of the domestic shows you wouldn't get that experience.

All that being said as I wax poetic, I'm with you, Joel. I think they're going to find a way to make this work. Maybe slightly recast. Maybe in a bit of a different way. I think from, like, an editorial and Autoblog setup, I'm not sure this is going to be as big a deal, because frankly, we never covered the Geneva Motor Show as any level of a consumer show. We're still probably going to see some cool reveals. I feel like car companies are still going to look to Geneva as maybe somehow a platform to reveal their stuff.

Another layer to this is it's neutral territory. Switzerland. It's literally neutral territory. So like the French, the Germans, the British, anybody else who wanted to show a car there that is sort of endemic to Europe-- they didn't have to wait for like the Paris Motor Show or the like the you know the British Motor Show that never was really a thing, recently. Or, you know, the Frankfurt Motor Show, where the Germans competed with each other and often tried to overshadow each other.

In Geneva, everybody was equal. I mean, I went to Corvette press conferences there, where they would often kind of make it this, like, special I would call it an Easter egg, cherry on the top thing. Like, when a new Corvette was revealed, they'd show the convertible in Europe, sometimes, in Geneva, which is pretty neat.

So all that's to say to get kind of super granular here-- stay tuned. I mean, a lot could happen. The whole model of auto shows could totally shake out differently. It's always a little bit-- I'd say, when there's this much uncertainty and they're already punting for the next year, you know, who knows? I think it is the coronavirus, obviously, kind of weighing them down.

But it's also-- it sounds like the Geneva show was in a unique financial position that I don't think the US shows have these kinds of arrangements that they did. You know, they're put on a little more I don't know independently or self-sustaining or they have different levels of organization. It seems like this is a little bit of a double whammy here to kind of bring down Geneva already for next year.

So speaking of which, Maserati has a new engine. This is pretty awesome, I think. For a while, all Maserati engines were being, like, basically, Ferrari engines, which they were very proud of. But when all of your engines are sort of ripped off from Ferrari and then you just tweak a couple of screws and bolts, and the horsepower is a little bit different, not really sure that's such a thing to hang your hat on, if you will. But this sounds cool. It's going to launch in the MC20, coupe which is a mid-- mid engine coupe, 3 liter six cylinder. And yes, this was developed in-house. I think this is a cool flashy play from Maserati.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, I am really psyched about this engine, Actually I think that Maserati needed some kind of good news. And a 630 horsepower 3 liter twin turbo V6 is really, really cool and awesome news. Like, I was shocked when I saw that power figure. I mean, I'm pretty blown away that BMW gets, like, 503 horsepower out of its new twin turbo inline 6. So 630 is a lot. It looks like it's going to go in pretty much a supercar.

But no, like, the other stats-- 8,000 RPM red line-- yes, yes, and more yes. I mean, the old Ferrari engine thing, that-- I mean, that was awesome. You know, I think that having Ferrari engines in your whatever sedan--

GREG MIGLIORE: It's never a bad thing, right?

ZAC PALMER: Pretty sweet. Like, all of them sounded awesome. That was always one of my favorite things about Maseratis was hey, like, it might not be the most luxurious interior, might not be the most special tech or anything like that, but you have a Ferrari engine. And this, thankfully, does not look like a step back at all. This almost looks like a step forward, because hey, it's a Maserati engine that's going to rev to the sky, make a stupid amount of horsepower, and go in an awesome car.

So yeah, this is definitely, like, probably some of the coolest news I've heard out of Maserati for a long time, honestly. So I'm excited to see whatever other cars they say they're going to put it in, because they did say that it's going to find its way into other new vehicles.

GREG MIGLIORE: Any thoughts, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: I'm excited about it, because it is cool that Maserati is developing their own in-house high performance engine and things. And I do think Maserati did need to do something to kind of make themselves stand out again, because their flagship sports car, the Granturismo, is really old. Like, really, really old. And has kind of been eclipsed by a lot of different cars at this point. And, like, the Quattroporte and the Ghibli, and the Levante, I feel like none of them have, like, really stood out in the crowd. So I think it's going to be good the Maserati is going to have kind of a halo that'll kind of bring attention back to them.

At the same time, I don't know I kind of wonder is this really-- is this really the best application of Maserati's resources and, like, what the brand really, really needs? I think it's more just kind of a general like-- I feel like Maserati has kind of been wandering in the woods for a while. Like, it kind of tried to shift to doing more-- more kind of mass produced sedans and SUVs. And none of them ever seem to really get that much critical acclaim or attention. And they've just kind of sat there.

Like the Ghibli and the Quattroporte both are also getting pretty old. And they weren't exactly class leaders when they came out. And if those are their volume cars, does creating a supercar with an engine that probably won't translate well to a big luxury sedan-- is that the smartest use of the resources? I don't know, it seems-- I think it's good that they're going to have a attention-grabbing halo, but I don't know, I worry about the rest of the lineup.

GREG MIGLIORE: I think you're right to be concerned. I mean, when you put it that way, this actually sounds terrifying. But on the other hand, you're Maserati-- make one or two great cars, and the rest will take care of itself, you know? Like, in some ways, I feel like when they were like really kind of-- they are deeply embedded within Fiat Chrysler, they were trying to be like, here's our crossover, OK, here's our sedan, here's our other sedan.

You know what-- just do two or three really good things. Let the people who are into Maseratis buy them. Turn a profit and away you go. Be like the cheaper Ferrari. That's what you need to do. Step up a bit from Alfa Romeo, and there is your Italian lineup right there.

I think yeah-- I mean, honestly, Maserati is a business case that's probably not something you should be investing in, you know? Like, historically, the fact that they've existed for like, jeez, 106 years, if I'm doing my math right-- like, that's probably the fluke, not the fact that they've actually been successful at different points. And I'm saying this is a guy who really likes Italian cars and hopes they survive.

But I don't know, the way I look at this is on one hand, it could be totally superfluous. But on the other hand, it could be like they make this awesome thing, they make another awesome thing, and that's enough. So we'll see.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And actually, when you brought up Alfa Romeo there, that's another issue that I kind of feel like Alfa Romeo and Maserati are almost a little bit too close competitors. Like, they each have a crossover, they each have kind of a small to midsize sedan that both are kind of luxury kind of performance. I think-- I think you've got a point. I think they should kind of make Maserati more of just a high end like GT super car maker, kind of like Ferrari, but maybe a little bit more comfortable and luxurious. Almost like an Italian Aston Martin.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, that's it. That's it right there.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: And then they can-- and then they can let Alfa Romeo focus on kind of the more mainstream, volume, luxury, performance cars.

ZAC PALMER: Yeah, I mean, I think you're spot on with their wandering in the woods comment there, because yeah, they totally are just sort of wandering in the woods. I mean, you would have thought that you know that they would have something that would drive as good and be as cool as a Macan if they were trying to go for, you know, that mass produced area. But the Levante is old. It's not quite as fun as say, a Cayenne, which has a ton of different variants. And the actual-- you know, if they went like with this-- like, an Italian Aston Martin, I feel like they could try and go headlong into an electric strategy, as well, and make a giant electric luxury sedan, an electric sports car, you know, to actually reinvigorate the brand and that would have them stand out even more from Alfa Romeo.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah. And Maserati does have plans for hybrids. The Ghibli is going to have a hybrid variant. And actually, I believe the rumors say that there will be a hybrid version of this new fancy V6 for the supercar.

GREG MIGLIORE: That's interesting. I mean, I think-- you know, the other thing when you look at Maserati, you know, to your point, Joel, about like sort of the full service thing-- when have they ever been that? You know, like, so I almost don't know why like as we're advancing into this sort of like-- you know, almost, like, ultramodern, fully evolved automotive sector, why some brands think they need to like expand into all different parts of the market. I'm not saying Maserati thinks they need to do that, but Levante went away. It definitely hurt their sales volume. I've driven it. It's kind of-- it's a lot of fun as far as the SUVs go. I mean, you get that GTS with the Ferrari engine in it. Let's see how many times we can say Ferrari engine in this podcast.

But I mean, I don't know. Again, it's like Alfa, I think, has an opportunity to be sort of like a different take on, like, the premium-- you know, you're looking at a Mercedes, you're looking at a BMW, you're looking at an Audi. I mean, they could even be a little bit cheaper. You know, I think most people don't associate Alfa with, like, super expense, you know? I mean, because they weren't historically, except for a few cars.

So, you know, drop down. Maybe be like the Italian Buick-- that probably doesn't come out right, but you know what I mean. Like, play in a different segment. And you know, go from there. I don't know. So that's how I would slice up FCAs-- wide-ranging Italian lineup.

Real quick plug here. You've got to check out the extended reality story on Autoblog. It's on the 2021 Ford mustang Mach-E. This is a project we did as part of just the whole Verizon Media ecosystem. To really boil that down what that means is we've got some sister brands like Tech Crunch, Engadget, Yahoo-- all that good stuff-- the Huff Post. And pulled some resources and came up some different projects.

We, of course, were like, let's do it on the Mustang, and check it out. It's pretty Cool you should-- you know, you could actually put the Mach-E against any background you might like. So that's kind of a fun little trick. Play around with it. It's on Autoblog.com. Check it out on mobile, as well. Let's spend some money.

All right, before I go through this missive from Anthony, you take a swig of La Croix. Because whenever I read the Spend My Moneys, I'm always out of breath and I never go first. So a guy is looking for a new family vehicle. His wife has a 2016 Volkswagen Tiguan, which has been great, but recently, we had a set of twins-- congratulations-- and with the dual car seats and baby accessories to go along with it, his wife is looking for a bigger vehicle. Makes a lot of sense. Tiguan is not going to really work for you four twins.

That being said, there's still some negative equity to roll over into the new vehicle, so the budget's only going to be about 25 grand. Looking for leather for ease of cleaning. I can vouch for you. I have a young child-- cloth seats are hard to clean. Sometimes, we don't even try to clean them. You just push out the crumbs and spray it down . Looking for all wheel drive, third row, and some safety features would be a plus.

I love that this email auto corrected to safety feathers, so that is-- I'm not sure if we can oblige with that, but hey, whatever you need. Some of the options Anthony and his wife and their twins are looking at an Explorer, a Durango, a Telluride, though some of those are currently out of the price range. Looking for a wide range of vehicles. What do you guys think?

ZAC PALMER: So my first thought is Ford Flex. There you go, you got three rows. You have a really cool looking vehicle. You can get it with leather seats. And you are absolutely within the $25,000 price range. If you get one that's couple, two three years old, and low miles-- I mean, you could even span like low 30s and maybe find a new one that's still sitting on all the random dealer lots that they're still on.

But yeah, I mean, you can have a really cool looking car. It's, like, half minivan, half sort of crossover, but not really. It's one of those cool, unique vehicles that I'm going to be real sad to see it go away. And you can even get the 3.5 liter EcoBoost V6, and it's quick. And I think you can fit a ton of baby stuff in the back as well, just because it's basically a box. So that is my number one choice. Go find the best Ford Flex you can get for your money.

GREG MIGLIORE: It's kind of awesome. What do you think, Joel?

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, so I guess the good news is that it's kind of hard to go really wrong looking at three row crossovers right now. Most of them are pretty darn solid. Regardless of whether you're buying a Japanese one, a Korean one, an American one, a German one, they're all pretty solid. I'd say if you're looking for one that drives really nice, Mazda CX-9 is a really good choice. It's got a nice interior, handles well. It's a little bit on the smaller side of the 3 row market.

And actually, kind of similar size, the latest GMC Acadia I actually quite like. It's really nice to drive. And it's not as-- it's not as gigantic as the Chevy Traverse. The latest Traverse is enormous, which can be a positive. There's loads and loads of space in it. But it is also not the easiest to maneuver.

The Kia Sorento is actually something that I like a lot it's definitely. It's the smallest, so like if you're going-- if you're moving out of a Tiguan, it would be the least-- it would be the most familiar feeling, but it is also significantly larger than a Tiguan on the inside. Yeah, those are probably some highlights.

And actually, you might even consider a minivan. The Toyota Sienna has been available with all wheel drive for a while. I can't remember off the top of my head if the Kia Sedona was available with all wheel drive, also. But the Sienna, I know, has been available with all wheel drive for a long time. And it's-- it is really hard to beat a minivan for just how practical they are, how easy they are to drive, all the features, all kinds of storage, and entertainment. And they-- they just make a lot of sense. So there's a couple of crossover suggestions. And also, maybe check out a minivan.

GREG MIGLIORE: Good points, good points. There's a little trickiness in the fact that they're working out a $25,000 budget here. I think Zac's, like, used Flex right in that ballpark. I would find the one with the freezer or refrigerator somewhere between the second and third row. That's definitely feature you're going to want. I'm somewhat joking, but actually, no-- if you could do that, 100% get the fridge. It's awesome. You'll want to put some, like, baby snacks, milk, all that good stuff back there.

I actually fully support the Flex, too. That's a great option. You know they didn't change it much in its final years. So even if you have to go back a couple of years, take some miles to get a good deal, I think that's reasonable. A Dodge Grand Caravan is actually-- they still sell that, at least for now. And you can get one of those-- I believe it's stickers for just over 27 grand. 2019 Dodge Grand Caravan. It's a new vehicle. It's slightly over budget. But that would be, I guess, my sort of--

JOEL STOCKSDALE: It's a quote, unquote, "new vehicle."

GREG MIGLIORE: Well, new as in it's like the 2013 Grand Caravan or something. But, you know, it's a new vehicle in that you get a warranty on it, all that good stuff. You know, you are buying something like air quotes, "new" from the dealership. So if you don't want to kind of jump into the used market for like a Flex or maybe a Tahoe with a couple of years on it or something like that, you could get, again, a new Grand Caravan. And I would say check that out.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's-- honestly, the Flex is what came to mind for me. Or maybe a lightly used Tahoe. Or try in air quotes, "new" Grand Caravan. Anything we're missing here?

ZAC PALMER: I think that your Sienna suggestion is really good, Joel. Going full on mini van, you really have unlimited space to expand. You're never going to get anything that is more utilitarian than that, probably. So once-- and you can keep it forever too, probably. So once your twins have friends, you can carry them around. You can have a ridiculous amount of seats.

And with all wheel drive, I mean it's-- I wouldn't call it a fun car to drive, but it's pretty good for, you know, what you can do with it. And all wheel drive in a minivan-- huge, huge plus for me.

JOEL STOCKSDALE: Yeah, and I should point out that most of my suggestions, you would definitely need used to get into that $25,000 price budget. With the Sienna, they do have excellent resale value. So even if you're buying one that's kind of at the lower end of the used Sienna market, it shouldn't lose much value once you have it. And I'll also point out, since Greg mentioned like possibly a new car with a warranty on things, the Sorento, you can actually get-- it starts at 26,990 before destination charge. That's prefer a front wheel drive one. All wheel drive would probably cost a little bit more. But that's a possible three row new car that you might be able to stretch to.

GREG MIGLIORE: Another interesting thought here too, as I don't exactly know if it's 25 grand, pay it up in cash, or that's just the budget they've earmarked for the next couple, like, family fiscal years. If you're willing to pay a little bit more, rates are pretty good right now. You know, if you're just going to finance, the difference between financing 25 and 32, 33 is not going to be that much. You're not going to pay that much more to get the loan.

So, you know, that's another thing to think about-- is, like, you know, if you're going to have the car for a few years, the SUV for a few years, maybe pay the extra, like, two grand to get the nicer vehicle or to get that extra package that you want on the vehicle. And then, you know, I mean, you won't find yourself a few years down the road thinking, oh geez, you know, we paid for this vehicle, it's fine, but gosh, I wish we'd gotten these two or three things on it. You know, in hindsight, maybe we could afford it because interest rates were and are so low. Just a lot of different things to consider.

And I will say this-- with kids, the minivan doors, man-- way better than an SUV. Like, any SUV. I mean, let me tell you-- the difference between putting my son in the Explorer versus like, say, the Pacifica-- it's no contest. So I guess we can leave it there.

It is the 1 of July. By the time you're listening to this, it will probably pretty close to the 4 of July, so have a great holiday weekend. Hope you get some rest. Hope you enjoy your "Autoblog Podcast" while you're running, hiking, biking, walking the dog, firing up the grill, whatever you do this weekend. Be safe and we'll see you next week.

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