Chirlane McCray Could Run for Office One Day
There’s nothing like ginger tea for the digestive system, Chirlane McCray tells me. It’s good for circulation, too. Even nausea. “In the winter,” she says, “I just drink it constantly.”
It’s two days after her husband, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, won re-election in a landslide, and we’re in an ornate, peach-colored parlor room in Gracie Mansion, the mayor’s residence. As she sips pungent ginger tea (boiled from the root so it’s extra strong), she looks back at the couple’s first term in office, marveling at how fast four years goes by.
McCray has spent that time as what some people have called de Blasio’s “co-mayor,” weighing in on senior staffing decisions, sitting in on high-level meetings, and leading policy pushes. She’s made mental health a top priority for the administration through Thrive NYC, a coalition of 54 initiatives tackling mental health care. And she helped pass a law that expands paid sick leave to victims of domestic violence, sexual abuse stalking, and trafficking.
In her first interview since de Blasio won a second term, McCray reflects on what she regrets about the last four years, her worst experience on the subway (seriously, it’s terrifying), and whether she’d ever run for office.
So, two days after your husband's reelection, how are you feeling?
Oh, I'm feeling relieved. I'm feeling excited. Nervous, because it's four years. It's a lot of time. Lot of time to fill up with new projects or continuation of the old. It's a lot to think about all at once. But I'm mostly excited about planning and getting started.
Why nervous?
Oh, because it's a huge responsibility. It really is. We serve at the pleasure of the people. Both of us, we really want to do our best at what we do. I want to make sure that I spend my time in the right way doing the right things that will have the most impact. Those are hard decisions to make. They really are. I know how fast time goes. Those first four years went like that [snaps]. So I know that this time around I’ve got to be really careful to be focused and to concentrate on the areas where I think I can make the most difference.
What's on the top of that agenda? If you could do one thing in the next four years, what's your priority?
Make Thrive NYC a success. We've launched a number of programs and now want to make sure they're all successful. Want to make sure that we've done as much as possible to change the public perception of what mental health is and normalize having conversations about it. If I could achieve that in four years, that would be enormous.
A few days ago, you likened President Trump to Major Storms Harvey, Irma, Maria. Is it appropriate to compare the president to storms that have killed hundreds of people?
I think that when you look at the damage that many of the policies that he has proposed can do to our citizens of the United States - absolutely. We're talking about life or death issues. We're talking about repealing the Affordable Care Act. I mean, just think about it for a minute. There are lives at stake. Repealing that law would just be, I mean, beyond devastating. Something that would affect millions and millions of people. I think it's totally appropriate. Obviously, it's a metaphor. It's not to be taken literally. But I did mean that when I talk about the damage and the trauma that has been brought into our lives because of his presidency, that that's very real.
You've made mental health such a huge focus of the last four years. In the aftermath of recent attacks, people have often attributed violence or danger to mental health. We saw that in the truck attack in New York last week and we've seen that after pretty much every mass shooting. Do you worry that immediately linking mental health to violence further stigmatizes those who suffer from it?
I think it does. We're not having the right conversation about mental health when we do that. We know, because we have statistics on this, that people who suffer from mental illness, substance misuse, or both are very rarely violent. A very tiny percentage of people with mental illness are also violent. We know this. The constant linking of the two together in national media is so misleading. I'm happy that we're talking about mental health, but I'm not happy that we're not having the right kind of conversations. We're not talking about prevention and intervention.
The city just passed a paid safe leave law, allowing victims of domestic violence, sexual abuse, stalking, and trafficking to take paid time off to deal with the fallout. Under the Earned Sick Time Act, employees may be required to provide reasonable documentation that the use of time was authorized under the law. For something so personal as domestic violence or stalking, how are women able to access this benefit while not compromising their privacy?
There are different ways. I mean, we have these family justice centers. Any woman can go to a family justice center. She can walk in and get medical help, legal help, child care if necessary. It's really a true umbrella of services. It's private. Your information is confidential. That is a place anyone can go and get that kind of documentation if need be. And there's one in every borough.
What if a woman doesn't feel comfortable having her employer know that she's been the victim of domestic violence? Is there a way to go around that so that her employer doesn't know?
Well, as the law is written, I don't know. But certainly it's also between a doctor and her patient. I can't really say because every incident of domestic violence or intimate partner violence is different. If there are broken bones, of course there's a way to get around that. How it's written up will vary according to the situation.
The city just passed a ban on employers asking about a potential employee’s salary history. You recently urged women to go get paid now that this law has passed. But there's a lot more to closing the race and gender wage gap. What's the next step?
The next step? Oh, man, well, first of all, we have to implement and enforce the steps that we have. There's so much that we should be enforcing that is not properly enforced. Just look at leadership in all of these major companies where you don't see any women, you see very few people of color. There are laws against discrimination, but those aren't really fully enforced. People always find ways to get around things, so I'd say the next step is for more people to be involved, for men to be involved.
Looking back at the last four years, do you have any regrets?
My regrets? I didn't work faster. I didn't work harder. I didn't start sooner. [laughs]
And now for the non-job interview answer.
[laughs] No, I think that it's true. My only regret is that - after the election, there's not a lot of time to figure out what to do. I mean, there's moving, there's hiring a lot of people, which takes a lot of time. And I am very much a partner with my husband in bringing on senior leadership. I can't tell you how many hours of interviewing that took. So it's not possible to really jump in and get to work right away.
You've been involved in the administration more than any other First Lady. How did you make the decision to become such a central part of your husband's administration?
I didn't make the decision. It was very natural. Even during the campaign, I was very much a part of the strategic meetings, very much a part of the campaigning. It's the way we live. We are partners in this work and have been for decades.
You two have been called "co-mayors" by some people. What do you say to critics who say it's not appropriate for someone who wasn't elected to wield this much power and influence?
My husband is the mayor. He has a lot of advisors. He has many advisors. Trust me. I'm not always the last one to state my opinion to him. And he does not always take my opinion. I think it's totally fair for any - in any couple, we just assume that people are speaking to their spouse. This is no different. In this day and age, I think we're going to see more couples like us. You know, couples who work together. I'm a volunteer, but I take this work very seriously and I want to help my husband in any way I can.
He has called you his number one advisor.
Yes, but he said that. Not me.
When you work so much with your husband, who you also are seeing at other times, not just during the workday, what's your dinner conversation like? Are you talking about work? Is it just an extension of City Hall? Or do you have, like, a moratorium on talking about work at the table?
We do often talk about work, but we talk about other things as well. Yeah, we talk about our kids, we talk about our family, we talk about movies or a show we're watching, or books. We try and make sure that it's a balance. And we're going to be working on that even more in the next four years. We need balance.
What show are you guys watching?
We're actually re-watching The Wire.
Oh my God, me too!
Really?
Well, I'm watching it for the first time. My boyfriend has watched it like five times and we’re watching it together.
The writing is fantastic. We just decided that we're going to watch the whole thing, so that's what we've been doing.
The mayor and Gov. Cuomo have been at odds over the MTA's train delays and general problems. Every New Yorker has horror stories about the subway.
I do too.
What's your worst experience on the subway?
[laughs] My worst experience really was when I first moved to New York. It was 1977. I had just moved to New York. It was July. And we had the blackout. And I was in the train.
You were on the subway when it happened?
Yes! When it happened. And the train was stuck between two stations, and we were close enough to one of the stations, so after a while, after a long while, they came and they got us. We walked out, and they were able to get us to the next station.
What train was it?
Whatever was going to the Bronx. I was going to the Bronx to visit someone who I didn't even know. I was meeting a friend of a friend just to talk and hang out. I got out, and I didn't have a flashlight or anything. And didn't know where I was. And I was so scared. People had flashlights out in the street and everything, and I had to ask somebody how to get to where I was going, and fortunately she was home. I ended up spending the night there.
At the friend of a friend's house?
Yeah! Because - [she throws up her hands in a what else was I going to do? fashion]. But it was horrifying, because I get out and I'm on a New York street, in the Bronx, where I have no clue - I had never been there before. It would have been hard enough in the daylight.
I want to talk about that New York Post cover you were on from 2014 with the headline "I was a bad mom." What impact did that have on you in how you thought of yourself as a mom?
That came at a time when I was physically and emotionally exhausted.
Why?
Literally just from my schedule. I would have to pull it up to tell you what had happened. Speaking at, like, three events two days in a row, or whatever. There was just a lot going on at that time. In retrospect, I would have come back and just slammed them.
Slammed the Post?
Yes! Because it was just so outrageous. What I'm happy about is that my sisters - other women - did it for me. I think that so many women were just outraged that they would do that. That kind of shaming. "Bad mother" is probably the worst thing you can say to any woman who has children. I didn't say anything that warranted that type of treatment. I really didn't. It's tough to be a mother. At any age. It's tough. It's a lot of work.
Did that affect how you thought of yourself as a mother?
No. Because what it showed to me was just how backwards they are. Whoever made the decision to put that cover, or whoever wrote the piece. It's just how far we have to go as women to - and as black women, because I don't know that they would have done that if I were white. I don't know. But it's a sign, to me, of how far we have to go.
Given your involvement in the administration, would you ever consider running for office?
Yes. I would consider running for office. But not for mayor. [laughs]
Why not?
It's a huge responsibility. And I feel like I've gone through this already. [laughs]
What would you want to run for?
I have no idea. But I would consider it. I think that all women should consider running for office. What's happening now is just horrifying. With the people we have - with the person we have in the president's office, with so many of the people we have in Congress - we need more progressive women in office. At all levels. From city councils on up. We need women to run. I encourage women to run. So I can't rule it out myself.
So, humor me. What could be the theoretical -
I don't know.
City government? Running statewide?
I really haven't - I'm not there. Four years, I'm doing this. And then we'll figure it out.
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