The Book of Clarence Writer-Director Jeymes Samuel Knows He’s Made the Year’s First Lightning-Rod Movie: “It’s a Wicked, Wicked Film”

Erik Umphrey

On the tail end of a recent Tuesday morning, writer-director Jeymes Samuel sat down at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons to discuss his latest film, The Book of Clarence, and didn’t hold back on the superlatives. “It's almost illegal for a director to say, ‘My film is wicked!’” he says. “The Book of Clarence… is wicked. It is singular. In 135 years of the moving image, we have never seen anything like it,” he said, beaming over his breakfast. “It's a wicked, wicked film. I'll be the first to say it.”

Usually a statement like that is a turn-off, but Samuels’ most unique attribute is his overwhelming charm. In his hands, the proclamation isn’t narcissistic and off-putting, but infectious. He has an unbridled enthusiasm for creating that overrides any hint of ego run wild. He talks as rapidly as his mind moves—at the hint of any reference in conversation he’s prone to immediately break out into the corresponding song lyric or impression. It’s that same charm and magnetism that allows him to be one of very few whisperers to the enigmatic rapper Jay Electronica, to develop a musical and cinematic language with Jay-Z over nearly 15 years, and to corral the likes of Rosario Dawson, Jesse Williams and Erykah Badu for one of his first shorts—a Western, They Die By Dawn, which was something of a dry run for him assembling essentially the Black Avengers of Hollywood for his debut feature film.

That was 2021’s The Harder They Fall, which felt like an event for the way it centered Black characters in a Western story, a genre not typically associated with us. For his follow-up, Samuels decamped to Matera, Italy—where Mel Gibson filmed The Passion of the Christ—to once again bring representation to a style of film that once reigned supreme at the box office before falling dormant in recent decades: the Biblical epic.

The Book of Clarence is set in A.D. 33 Jersualem, and follows LaKeith Stanfield as the eponymous hero, a rakish hustler looking to come up—on a bag, on the girl of his dreams, and in his hood where he often doesn’t get enough respect, desires fueled by his brother Thomas, an apostle who abandoned the family to follow a mysterious so-called messiah named Jesus. Soon Clarence decides his way in is to pretend to be a messiah himself, which attracts the attention of both the apostles and the Romans looking to stamp any and all messiahs out. It’s a meaty role that gives Stanfield the biggest canvas for his range he’s had to date, but also provides a stunning canvas for filmed Blackness overall.

At one point Samuels asks me rhetorically how come it took someone like him to do it—to put Black faces in so-called unexpected places. Nevertheless, since he’s the first, he gets to plant the flag. Clarence is an even bigger dice-roll than The Harder they Fall, from its tricky story and themes—it’s a “religious” film for a mass audience, but one also built to tempt outcries from people of faith quick to judge before seeing—to its rollout. While Harder lived on Netflix, which Samuels calls a utopian haven to create, Clarence is in theaters (and theaters only) as of today. A biblical story with a cast that actually resembles the true descriptions of the characters—that’s an event Samuels says can only be seen on the big screen first.

“They’ve never seen people that look like Frazier and Jeymes in the street,” Samuels says. “And Jesus of Nazareth looks like [Nicholas Pinnock]. The whole thing is all new. Mary Magdalene on a chariot. A chariot race in the hood. Call it what you like. Thank me later.” Attentive viewers will remember a “Book of Clarence'' being referenced in The Harder They Fall; Samuels teases this film also contains an Easter Egg hinting at his next. We’re still at the beginning of the Jeymes Cinematic Universe, which—love or hate the films—promises to always be an interesting and unexpected ride.

Samuels talked to GQ about creating with Jay-Z, why he loves pushing genre boundaries with his films, and why The Book of Clarence isn’t blasphemous.

You’ve said a big motivator for you making The Harder They Fall was that it was a kind of reclamation, in a way, of the genre—Black faces playing real-life Black figures who were forgotten. So how do you go from that to this Biblical epic? The only through-line for me was that they're both genres that have fallen out of the mainstream these days.

Yeah, absolutely. But also, Frazier, I had the idea for The Book of Clarence—I started taking notes in 2003-04. I wanted a name that was like an old school Black name with two syllables, that you pronounce as one. Even then, when I didn't have the script written, I knew the story. So particular songs would come to me. One of the songs is called “Varinia.” It features a Chicago folk legend called Terry Callier. He vocaled that song for me in 2006. He died in 2012. But I tracked him down, with no script and said, "Look, I know it sounds crazy, but just listen to the song." And I sent him my demo for the song and he just wanted to change the time signatures a bunch of times. And he sung it for me. I think it’s different, this album, than the [soundtrack for The Harder They Fall]. I've performed all of these songs myself [this time], so the whole soundtrack is really a Jeymes album. This time ‘round I took no prisoners. I had mercy last time. This time I'm like, "Oh, no, you're getting a full clip."

So when I came out of the screening, the first thing someone in there said was how “blasphemous” it was. I gather that’s a reaction you’re prepared for.

I was prepared for it with The Harder They Fall. What people need to realize—in Matthew 24:5, Jesus said, "Many will come in my name claiming to be the Messiah, and they will lead many astray.’ In Jesus' 33 years of living, there were maybe 200 to 300 imposters claiming to be the Messiah. It would be blasphemous if we showed Jesus as a charlatan. We show Jesus as the most holy person ever. I think when some people say “blasphemous,” it's almost as if we're only allowed to tell one story. Clarence has faith in there. But if you want to tell a story of someone that has faith from the beginning, there's no arc. It should be a journey, like Detroit Little to Malcolm X to El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz. The story of a sinner that finds redemption.

And I don't know what hood that person [who said “blasphemous”] grew up in. With all due respect, if you grew up in my environment, I didn't know no Jesuses. I knew Clarences.

Were you in church a lot?

I wasn't in church a lot but we read the Bible a lot. My mother used to hold services on Sundays in the house. The Bible is a beautiful book. Whether someone believes in the book or not—like, believes that it was real or not—you can't admonish the beauty of the book, of the stories and the tales. Whatever your belief is, the walk of Jesus is a beautiful walk. And the film doesn't disrespect the walk of Jesus at all. Jesus' story doesn't get interrupted. [This story] is parallel.

So then I ask, "Where's the blasphemy?" Point it out. And I enjoy the fact that we can have this conversation. It's not blasphemous. You mean like the other film that showed Black people in the Bible days? Oh, well, that doesn't exist, does it?

So what inspired this idea? The Harder They Fall was a more straightforward narrative for people to wrap their heads around. Real-life characters, Black men and women who were underrepresented in the genre… I feel like I could understand the creative impetus for it a little bit more. Personally, I've never seen Ben-Hur, I didn't watch Passion of the Christ. This isn’t a genre that I ever really gravitated to.

[I made it] for that reason. They stopped making those movies. Those are wicked films, especially Ben Hur. Ben Hur is a dope movie, man. It's like Clarence—it takes place alongside the Bible. The chariot race in Ben-Hur is the most legendary chariot race ever put on film. And it's not like they stopped making money. They just stopped being made.

People don't watch Westerns. And what's the reason people don't watch them? Because you're not being fed what you want. When you put Regina King, Idris Elba, LaKeith Stanfield—you're going to watch that movie. I like bringing people to genres that they're not necessarily accustomed to seeing themselves in. I think they deserve it. I also think that's what cinema is all about.

But what is the one prevalent topic or theme that has run throughout Black [communities] all over the world since we were enslaved? The Bible. Those movies [you named] have a disconnect, which is that the people in them don't resemble the environment. So I wanted to tell a tale based on my environment, but based in those days. If I wanted to tell a tale that looks like the environment I grew up... I love [Westerns], but I don't know no one that looks like Tom Nesmith.

It’s not even about skin color—just, a flavor similar to the environment I grew up in. The fastest getaway driver in my area was a girl called Chantelle. And then from her, you have Mary Magdalene [who opens The Book of Clarence in a high-speed chariot race]. Shout out to Chantelle, she’s still a G, wherever she is. And so I just wanted to showcase this Biblical-level swag.

So for me, there is no philosophy in this movie, but I welcome the dialogue. And I love the smoke.

You have a creative fearlessness that really manifests itself in the biggest way in your films, which feels really refreshing in a time where that kind of creativity and originality is rare. How did you develop that?

I'm a floor-to-ceiling creative. I wake up and I create until I go to sleep, which is why I'm able to compose a score, produce and perform the whole soundtrack, while I'm making the movie. But I create what I see is missing, so it's needed. I need to be fed a particular thing that's not here, so I create to fill the space. But also, I'm a storyteller. We're all born free, all of us, and what happens is the older we get, the more shackled we become.

As you said, why would I make a movie like this... a lot of people asked that. I go, "Why not?" It's storytelling. We're meant to make every [type] of movie—I’m going to space! [laughs] I promise. I love the cinema. I love it with all my heart.

Well one person who isn’t asking you that question is Jay. Which is funny because I feel like previously if people just saw “produced by Jay-Z” they would assume he’s getting behind a safer bet—the standard artist-turned-producer stuff, instead of going two for two on genres that were basically dormant.

Because he is just as nuanced and singular as me. Jay's career is a whole career based on... I don't [want to] call it risk-taking. I call it being true to who you are. It wasn't risky, me doing Clarence. I love cinema. Martin Scorsese could make Goodfellas then do Last Temptation of Christ next. What do I have to make a hood movie next? And, if I made a hood movie, no one would question it. Studios were offering me all kinds of hood movies.

Speaking of that—so The Harder They Fall comes out, and kind of announces you as this presence in the film space. What were the industry conversations after? Like did Kevin Feige call you up to do Blade?

I'll say this on record. If Mahershala asked me to direct Blade, I would've done it because I love Mahershala too much. Now after The Harder They Fall, I've been approached to do some of the biggest movies to the smallest movies, some great projects. And there's particular things I want to do, like I was speaking to Donna Langley at Universal. I said, "Ah, man, let me have Dracula." She said someone's doing Dracula, but the Monster Universe is a thing. Okay, let me dive into that Monster Universe and see. But whatever I do, I'll make my own.

But then there were other conversations—like, people keep offering me hood movies. I'm like, "That’s what you got out of The Harder They Fall? So you watched that, and you're offering me New Jack City 2?” Like, what? With all due respect, man. Nino Brown died. He's dead. That is just not for me. I already had this. I knew I was doing this next. In The Harder They Fall I mention “the book of Clarence.”

So then when The Harder They Fall blows up, you’re getting offers and attention, but you come to Jay like, "All right, we're doing a Biblical epic next"—and he's down?

Yeah, Jay knew about The Book of Clarence way before. So me and Jay… I can't even imagine creating without that guy. It's almost like we're always on the phone cooking, just messing around, and then we finish and then we have these classics. Because don't get it twisted. The Book of Clarence is a classic. It is a classic. It's a moment in cinematic history that will never be forgotten. That's not to say it comes out and does a billion dollars in the box office. But it's a classic, like the first time you saw the “Hey Ya” video—you're just know you’re in a particular era, a moment, for this dude.

With this one coming to theaters instead of streaming, is box office that something you're dwelling on?

No. I have a job. I have a job that I set for myself, creating a classic. After I create a classic, you're welcome. The classic is made. This movie is a classic. A classic isn't dictated by its box office. Is Blade Runner a classic?

Undoubtedly.

It didn't do well at the box office. Scarface? Shawshank Redemption? I don't think of box office receipts. I don't necessarily think of how a film is received. I'm a different type of creative. My favorite actor of all time is Charles Laughton. He's this overweight white English actor. Charles Laughton was Brando before Brando. He just didn't have the look. All the nuance that Brando had, Charles Laughton had in the 1920s. He is amazing. He directed a film noir starring Robert Mitchum, called Night of the Hunter.

When it came out, it got bad press. And it hurt Charles Laughton. I think he was really sensitive, as all genius artists are. And he never made another film. Night of the Hunter is frequently regarded as the greatest movie of all time now. Now, I'm not putting Clarence up there. All I'm saying is, The Book of Clarence is a classic.

So you got Jay-Z in his full movie producer bag. What's Movie Night with Jay like?

Well, he'll do screenings at his house. Jay-Z doesn't live in a house, he lives in a spaceship. And we call his house—this is a fact, ask him—we call it the Three-Course Carters. In that house, you have three courses of everything. There's nothing you don't have three courses in. If you ask for water, you’ll get still, sparking, and a glass with a touch of fruit. It's the best restaurant I've ever been to in my life, until I went to Regina King's house. Regina King is the best chef in the history of chefs. And I don't know how long this article is, but Regina King's cooking—she's the best cook. Jay-Z's [house] is the best restaurant. Beyoncé, she knows I'm addicted to banana bread: "Look, Jeymes, we get the banana bread on Wednesdays." So if it’s Wednesday, I'll go around there for my banana bread.

And then Jay will play his movies on the outside patio, or he'll go in the movie room. It’s whatever film he’s showing that day, and three courses of the best meal you've ever had in your life.

So, the Roc-a-fella Alamo Drafthouse?

Oh my God. It's the best food you've ever had in your life. Now, Regina King—people serve you ice cream. She literally makes ice cream from scratch. Me and Jay Electronica call Regina ICFS, Ice Cream From Scratch. What the hell? But back to Jay. Collaboration with Jay-Z is just like breathing. Every single minute we speak is creativity. We're always, always creating. So we were working on The Harder They Fall and The Book of Clarence, both of them, right from 2011, around the time of They Die By Dawn, my short film—he was helping me get some casting. Always cooking. Met in 2010, when I was producing Jay Electronica.

So this is the completion of, basically, a 20-year odyssey for you. What did you learn about yourself, finishing the film, reaching the end of this journey?

[laughs] You know why I laughed, Frazier? We have to be mature. I have to say “I learned a lot about myself, I discovered such and such.”

The coiffed answer.

But with our careers, are we meant to tell the truth or are we meant to give people what they want to hear? I think the truth is sometimes a bit of both. But—seriously, if you write this, say that both you and I were laughing—what I [really] learned about myself is, Oh—I'm more of a G than I thought.

Originally Appeared on GQ