'Westworld' Star Angela Sarafyan Talks Episode 9
Spoilers for Westworld Season 2 Episode 9, "Vanishing Point," below.
Angela Sarafyan is just like you. She's addicted to Frasier and dreams of living in New York City, and every Sunday night, she gathers a group of friends at her home to watch Westworld. Angela Sarafyan is also nothing like you-strangers in line at Starbucks command her to "freeze all motor functions" and Anthony Hopkins once gave her a lesson in acting techniques using lines from Silence of the Lambs. Totally normal.
But Sarafyan swears she's just a regular girl. During our hour-long conversation, the 34-year-old Westworld star balks when I use the word "celebrity" to describe her, and she asks as many questions of me as I do her.
On a show that regularly steamrolls expectations and leaves viewers more confused than enlightened with each scene, Sarafyan's Clementine Pennyfeather often carries the key to understanding essential plot points-usually at the expense of her own welfare. Last season, a bug in her code triggered errors in other hosts across the park, ultimately leading to her own deommissioning ("lobotomizing," as Sarafyan puts it) and eventually, the host uprising led by Dolores (Evan Rachel Wood).
This season, she's in the care of Dolores and her rebellious crew, but as a shell of her former self. Gone is the sensuous prostitute who ruled Mariposa Saloon alongside Maeve (Thandie Newton), and in her place is a taciturn war machine. For a character fans have come to love dearly (her signature phrase, “Not much of a rind on you," became a Westworld catchphrase of sort), it's a heartbreaking transformation. And yet, Clementine still manages to steal every scene she's in, using little more than a longing glance to convey the ghost of her former vitality. And despite the difficult subject matter, it's a treat to watch Sarafyan tackle such challenging material so flawlessly.
When we last saw Clementine, in Episode 7, she'd sustained fatal injuries and "died" after a battle between Dolores' team and the Delos techs inside the Mesa. Though viewers mourned her death on Twitter, true Westworld fans know it's not that easy to kill a host. In tonight's episode, "Vanishing Point," Clementine is resurrected by Delos techs under the command of Charlotte Hale (Tessa Thompson). She rises, literally, with a special new addition to her code, copied from her dear friend Maeve, who's dying on a stretcher nearby. Pressing her hand to a glass office holding dozens of hosts, the robots inside promptly tearing each other to pieces. Delos has hacked the mesh network, and Clementine is their key to controlling the non-sentient hosts. The scene lasts exactly two minutes, but Clementine's new role in the host v. humans war primes next week's finale for an explosive conclusion.
Below, Sarafyan talks Clementine's significant yet tragic role in the new season, the strange empowerment of nude scenes, and her hopes for Clementine's future.
Christian Siriano top.
Harper's BAZAAR: It's so exciting to see Clementine back in tonight's episode, after we thought she died in Episode 7.
Angela Sarafyan: I did die!
HB: Well, you're not gone for good, as we saw tonight. Delos has revived you as a weapon.
AS: I love this thing that they did with her. I didn't want to watch [the season] by myself and I've been watching with friends, we do a thing every Sunday. And I realized when we watched Shogun World [with Maeve revealing her ability to control the other hosts], I thought, that's what she does! She controls them with her mind. And now Clementine controls everyone for destruction. So it becomes we that were once together are now at the polar opposite ends. And I don't know what holds for [Episode] 10. [Laughs]
HB: What does the the character of Clementine, and her trajectory this season, mean to you?
AS: I love everything about Clementine. This season has been... She's a symbol of what happens to hosts when-I don't know if it's the death of a host, but the aftermath of getting a lobotomy and no longer having this loop, this identity. So I thought, even though she doesn't speak that much, she's kind of this being that's there, and she holds that for all the hosts. In Season 1, she was the first one that showed how strong they are. She's the first one that broke, she was the first threat to humanity, in Episode 7. So I think in this season, she's an archetype, a representation of the hollow host.
Dsquared2 dress.
HB: What does it mean to be a lobotomized host?
AS: I'm going to say something kind of heavy. Most people, when they come to the end of their lives–not all, but a lot of them-they lose the ability to do a lot of things. Simple things become really difficult, like standing and walking, or eating some food, or eating certain food, or eating. And I thought that there was a connection here, that this person has now lost the ability to do the simple things like talking or functioning, and now she's being literally controlled. She's lost her identity. I saw [in her] that reflection of what happens to us at the end of our being, that what we take for granted and really revel in now might be completely taken away by the time we're-if we're lucky enough-90, 94, 95.
I thought that was the tragedy of her. You see this person that can no longer have that identity. And I reflect that back to us as people. Who you were 18 years ago and the people that you had in your life I'm sure are not the same, besides the core three or four. And so I think she sees it as a past, and there are ghosts in her past, they're memories, and so she lives like a vessel now. And I hope there's part of her that's still fighting to live.
HB: We learned more about the hosts' physical makeup this season, including the globe-like core processor units inside their head. Did the engineers remove Clementine's unit, or just do a total reset?
AS: Her's isn't [gone]. Not yet. She's there. Literally, they've turned it off. And I have hope that it's not completely dead.
"I hope there's part of her that's still fighting to live."
HB: Why do you think she went with Dolores at the start of the season? Was it just the easiest thing to do?
AS: This is like a revolution, and I think that she was there to protect what they're fighting for, which is ultimate freedom, so no longer to be a threat. And I don't know if she has that much of a conscious choice. I don't think that she's making the choice to be with Dolores. It's kind of like Dolores is protecting her, as she is protecting them, because what was done to her cannot be undone.
HB: It's especially interesting because it's a total role-reversal for Clementine-she's the textbook sultry prostitute in Season 1, but in Season 2, it turns out she's actually one of the strongest hosts.
AS: I think that's where the shock really was, because she didn't seem like someone that would be [violent], because she was all loving. You wouldn't expect that to happen to her, and so I think that makes it even more heartbreaking.
HB: One of my favorite parts of Westworld is it really forces you to rethink the tropes you see in pop culture, because it's flipping them all on their heads. For example, viewers complained about the Man in Black's implied rape of Dolores in the Season 1 premiere, but later we learned he dragged her into the barn for another reason entirely.
AS: I think that every little thing that's set in the show, any moment of violence or any action-for example, Clementine, she is not violent. If you notice, throughout this season, she's not violent until [Episode 7]. And that is again, to protect what is hers. So I think that everything is fed for a very specific reason, and not just for the sake of entertainment. And I agree completely with you because we're so used to seeing that level of violence on TV, and I fee like that's a part of... I love the changes that are happening, all the strides. I see the difference. I feel it personally.
HB: How so?
AS: I won't disclose who, but I met a casting director, and I'd heard a story about an older, male casting director who had always walked around with three or four young girls. He recently got fired, and now this young woman is the casting director of this specific place. And I thought, that's amazing. That's so great, and she's my age, and it makes me happy because now it's not about that dynamic. There's an old Elmer Rice play, Two on an Island. It was placed in New York, and the girl has to question: Is she going to sleep with this producer to be in the play? Or is she going to go this other path? She's at the top of the Statue of Liberty saying, "Do I go back home or do I stay in the city?" She has this big question and I think [this dynamic] has been such a big part of our culture, and now this change is happening. That's what I'm seeing and that's very encouraging.
HB: When I attended the Season 2 premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival, [Westworld co-creator] Lisa Joy explained very eloquently the reason Season 1 contained so much nudity, but that it was her mission to ensure the actors were made to feel as little discomfort as possible.
AS: I found working with Lisa and Jonah [Nolan] incredibly comforting. I trusted them the minute I met them. I love the kind of couple they are, the kind of people that they are. It's a rare thing. I'd never been naked on a show before and my first day shooting in Season 1 was [a nude scene]. And I was vulnerable, but I left empowered. It changed me completely. I left feeling, "Well, that's all of me." And that is not a bad thing. I felt so strong, like I wanted to fly or something. It was incredible to do that.
HB: How much did you know about Clementine's storyline going into the season?
AS: [The script] for every episode is written as it is. We would get it before we would shoot it, so that's how you got an idea of what's going to happen, but I really wouldn't know ahead of time. Jonah did call me early on before I started Season 2 just to give me an idea of what was gonna happen with her. I didn't know specifics, but I just knew some of the things.
I thought it was an interesting approach because she saw things without having to have these major scenes, you know? And that was something fun for me to explore, because as an actor, you're always looking for "How many lines?" Or "How big are my scenes?" There's this idea that I'm not speaking, so I'm not doing anything. But I think that life is always going on, so it's up to you if you want to bring it, or just be a thing standing there. I thought you could reveal so much without saying anything, and it was interesting trying to figure out how to do that. And I thought, because of ballet, you tell story through your body, through movement. And I thought whatever her movements are, I want it to seem very effortless and easy.
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HB: Do you get to bring a part of yourself to Clementine?
AS: Clementine has directly affected my life and kind of woken me up about certain things. In Season 1, for example: I'm not the kind of girl that's... I mean, I love fashion and I love clothing, but I always thought I should accomplish things based on what I can do and not what I look like. Especially at the time that we grew up, there was a lot of objectifying. Girls went to high school and after that, they were like, "Gotta get married and have babies." There's that constant search for a husband. I always thought, I have to make something of myself. But what I learned from Clementine was it's nice to be a woman. It's nice to wear lipstick and it's nice to use your beautiful qualities and celebrate them instead of hide them. I think for a long time, feminism was about hiding. And I think feminism is about celebrating your femininity.
"I always thought I should accomplish things based on what I can do, and not what I look like."
And Season 2 told me, don't be defined by everything. Have your own definition. In a way that everything is fluid. Nothing stays the same. I met this really interesting psychotherapist and he said something to me, "Look at the way that you feel around the people you're with. It could be a man, a friend, anything. And if you don't feel like that person sees you or gets you, and you don't feel good about yourself, they shouldn't be there." And that is such a simple kind of idea and it made me think, "Oh, you are the most important." And then if someone else can reflect back to you and help you become the best version of you, by loving, then that's the person.
It's a collaborative effort [with the character] absolutely. You try different things each take and see what happens. What I bring, they've seemed to like and that is nice. There's this thing in Episode 10 where I remembered Jonah had said he wanted this shot where it was this close. [She gestures to her face.] He couldn't be there that day, because we had four units going. So I mentioned to the cinematographer, I was like, "I think he really wants the shot like this." And so we did it.
HB: Do you have a favorite moment from the season? One that was just for you?
AS: I love playing the piano [in Episode 2]. I know it's a brief moment, but it's special for me because I can finally do that in something. And then that moment in the Mariposa, with the old Clementine. That revelation is what was interesting to me. But most of all, it's probably [Episode 10].
HB: That scene in the Mariposa in Episode 5, with Clementine seeing the old version of herself, is so poignant and touching. There was a whole Reddit thread devoted to it.
AS: That was so sweet to see all of that. I was really surprised to see how much it affected them, because I wasn't sure how it would be. Lisa Joy-Nolan had called me and was very sweet about that scene. She said it was one of her favorites and I was so moved to hear that because I don't know how it's coming out and I don't know if it is going to leave any effect. From what it is on script to what we shoot to what is edited into the show, so it's been so sweet.
HB: I've had this question since Season 1 aired-Clementine's reverie is essentially the trigger that starts the host revolt. Why exactly does she take on that specific reverie, the stroking of her lip?
AS: I think she's a very sensual creature. I think she's a dreamer. Even in the state of when [the hosts] are asleep, I think she's dreaming. I think she's seeing something, so I thought because she's playing this prostitute, and she loves the feeling of touch and smell, her senses are heightened and she's present. And so it makes sense that she touches her lip or she touches someone else and it's all very... It's not sexualized, it's just a form of falling in love.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Top image: Victoria Hayes dress and Atelier Swarovski by Jason Wu ear crawler.
Photography by Derek Wood; Styling by Avo Yermagyan; Hair by Brant Mayfield; Makeup by Amy Strozzi.
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