In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Road Test Editor Zac Palmer. They start off discussing their drives in the 2022 VW GTI and 2022 VW Golf R. They then discuss the news, which is jam-packed this week. The Mazda6 and CX-3 are going away, and Alfa is reportedly mulling a new GTV and Duetto. Plus, Ford teased an electric Bronco, confirmed a future electric Explorer and fully revealed the work truck version of the 2022 F-150 Lightning named the "Pro." They end by turning to the mailbag and responding to another listener's Spend My Money question.
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[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to the "Autoblog" Podcast. I'm Greg Migliore. Joining me today is road test editor Zac Palmer. What's going on, man?
ZAC PALMER: Oh, the noises of lawnmowers and the occasional cicada, you know? The sounds of a happening spring. That's what's going on. How are you doing?
GREG MIGLIORE: I am super psyched. I spent a week recently in the GTI. I think you spent a week recently in the Golf R. So some of the recent podcasts, we've been talking about very important things like minivans and electric cars. Always important, always fun.
But if you're a hardcore enthusiast, this is probably what you're here for right now, is to talk about the Golf R and the GTI. So yeah, man. I'm excited. Gonna be a good show. And I've had a lot of fun--
ZAC PALMER: Me too
GREG MIGLIORE: --in these Volkswagens.
ZAC PALMER: Hot hatch time.
GREG MIGLIORE: Hot hatch time.
ZAC PALMER: I'm pumped too.
GREG MIGLIORE: We'll talk about some other things, though. The Mazda6 and the CX-3 are done. We've got a little bit of-- some rumors about what's going on with Alfa Romeo. Maybe the Duetto's coming back and the GTV. Sign me up for that.
Electric news out of Bronco beyond the Lightning. Stay with us. Zac did some reporting on what's going on with the EV Bronco and Explorer.
We'll also talk about the Pro, the Lightning's, like, work truck version, the base one. This is the one that, I think, they talked about was gonna start around $39,000. This is the truck you'll get for that sort of low-low price.
Got a mailbag question. Will spend some money. We'll talk about Zac's column from last week. So we'll get into that in a little bit.
You may have noticed we've been doing some columns and opinion pieces on site. Whenever we have the author, if you will, of the piece on the podcast, we like to talk about it. So he's gonna talk about adaptive headlights, which is a subject, I think, is kind of interesting.
I've seen some of these technologies in Europe. I saw what BMW was working on about 10 years ago now. Still haven't seen it here in the United States. But I think I don't want to spoil the show. I think Zac's got a take on that.
So Golf R, GTI. We'll just pretend to open a beer here. I would open one, but it's 2 o'clock, and I still need a little bit of my caffeine drip going. But two guys at the bar talking about hot hatches.
To start things off, I really thought the GTI-- and I wrote this in my story-- is, like, exactly what I expected, straight out of central casting. They dress it up a little bit. There's, like, even more LED lights. They kind of, you know, did some interesting things with, like, the front diffuser so it's a little more-- I don't know. Things are moved around a little bit.
But if you saw it from the curb, you'd say yeah, that's a GTI. It's got a little bit more power. The inside is-- the best way to put it is they kind of stole some stuff from the ID.4, dressed up the inside.
Limited slip is now standard. You get a diff on it. So that's kind of cool. And that's about it.
It's a turbo 4 with a six speed manual. Dual clutch is optional. Current car, I believe, the manual take rate is only about 40%.
And I was actually surprised to hear that. I thought it would've been a little bit higher. But 40% is a huge number, when you think about it, for a manual transmission car.
So overall, I was psyched to drive this. I'm a big fan of the GTI. There have been some, like, newcomers in the hatch segment. I was gonna say "hot hatch" and tripped over it there.
But whether you want, like, a medium spicy or a true hot hatch like, you know, maybe the Veloster N or something like that, you can kind of go up and down the food chain. But for me, this is, like, simple, pure, just enough power. It's pretty light. For me, this is, like, you know, straight up what I was looking for. So I'm curious, what'd you think of a Golf R?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. So, you know, sort of just how you let off there, you know, the car is exactly what you expected it to be. You know, from, like, a big picture area, you know, the Golf R is still a Golf R.
You know, it's still that all-wheel drive hot hatch with more power than you were expecting that you can show up anywhere and look professional, be this very, very mature car, but then take it out on the weekend and have a ridiculously good time with it. And that second weekend part that I just described there is actually where this car's biggest change and biggest improvement is, that I just think it's a lot more fun than the previous Golf R. you know, the old Golf R had a pretty, you know, standard Haldex all-wheel drive system on it that, you know, is akin to a lot of things that you got in a standard crossover.
Granted, there was brake-based torque vectoring. But there was no proper, like, real torque vectoring like you got on a Focus RS or a Subaru WRX STI. The all-wheel drive system was sort of along for the ride and not, like, adding a lot of fun to it.
This time, this Golf R, I think, is a ton of fun because they added that torque vectoring differential on the rear axle. And yeah, it works. It has a proper drift mode. You go in there, you know, you slot it into race, there's a Nürburgring mode. There's a drift mode, which is pretty neat.
And I actually went and tried it out in some abandoned parking lot, and it works. Just like the Focus RS, you know, you smash the gas pedal, and all of a sudden, your front-wheel-drive-based hot hatch is sliding sideways like a rear-wheel drive car, which is wildly, wildly cool. So that, to me, is, like, the biggest difference of what makes this Golf R so much better than the last one.
Granted, there's more horsepower. You have 315 horsepower now as opposed to 200-- just over 280 before. The thing is very, very fast.
I know that yours had the manual. Mine had the DSG. Volkswagens dual clutch automatic is brilliant. It's still brilliant here.
There's a proper launch control. This thing, honestly, you know, if I'm gonna [INAUDIBLE] it, it felt quicker. It felt closer to 4.0 flat than the, you know, just about 4.5, 4.6 that Volkswagen estimates.
GREG MIGLIORE: OK.
ZAC PALMER: So, you know, for what you're gonna get for this car-- I mean, this car is gonna cost just over around $40,000, would be my guess, to start-- you know, you're getting a lot, a lot of car here. And, you know, if you're the kind of person that, you know, doesn't want to be seen driving around something like the Civic Type R-- which is, you know, a full boy racer, wings everywhere, scoops, vents, the whole deal-- you can have, you know, close to, if not just as much fun in this Golf R now with the changes they've made. So I hope that the GTI you drove is just as much fun.
I mean, I know every GTI that I've driven in the past has been a blast to drive. You know, when you really [INAUDIBLE], when you really start to get on them, it is-- you know, there's a reason why it's always been the standard of hot hatches out there. So from what you're saying, it sounds like it could still be that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I mean, I literally-- the only thing I sometimes am slightly reticent to label it-- and this is maybe just the way the industry has changed-- is it really a hot hatch anymore? I almost call it, like, a medium spicy hatch in the-- which is a cliche-- but in the broader context of, like, the Type R or, you know, like, the Veloster N, and the Golf R, of course.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But it's a riot to drive. I mean, to me, what's great about the GTI-- and I've been driving GTIs-- when I first got into the business, I had never driven a GTI until I had gotten into press cars. And, you know, early 20s, I'm like, wow. I've heard about this car. This is amazing.
And, like, immediately, you can feel comfortable in it, not intimidated, and have a riot when you want to. But if it's, like, just a normal drive, you can do that too. You know, maybe have a couple aggressive, you know, launches from stoplights, or you're like me, and you like to cut down this kind of wooded path, good times.
You want to ring it out, you can do that too. You want to just literally chill, that hey, you're just driving a Volkswagen hatchback-- and I think that's the really-- the beauty of the GTI is that it has, really, all the capability you need for, like, a daily driving performance thing as far as just, like, performance. But, you know, it can be docile. It can be, like, just agreeable. It can be whatever you want it to be.
And just that balance is really good. And I think when you want it to be-- really get on it, you can feel the torque steer. Just the shifting is spot on, you know? That clutch in that car is-- I mean, there's, like, probably a list of maybe five or six manual gearboxes that I truly enjoy, and, like, the one in the GTI has always been one of them.
The one thing-- they updated the shifter. I kind of like the Mk7 generation, which was a little more, like, analog looking, if you will. Whereas now, it's kind of a little more almost like a mouse on the top of it, if you will, for lack of a better way to put it.
But yeah, I mean, for me, this is the car. I would take a GTI over the Golf R, over really almost anything else in the segment. I think the Type R is awesome. But it's not something I would necessarily want to live with.
And I like just the Golfiness and the Volkswageniness of the GTI as opposed to, like, just some of the other things out there. I would take this over when the Focus RS was still a thing, which, you know, to your point earlier, that all-wheel drive system, that was really a trick system that Ford had in the Focus RS. And you don't see that in many places these days. So I'm heartened to hear that the Golf R really is-- like, has this robust system. But yeah, I mean, it sounds like we're pretty much on the same page here with these cars.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. You know, so the one thing that was honestly annoying me the most about this car-- and I'll be curious to hear if it was annoying you too-- was a lot of the design on the interior and how they executed the technology within.
The fact that, you know-- Volkswagens have always been pretty simple in that there are these very big knobs, you know, easily-reached buttons, and just-- you know, it's a general, like, user-friendly interface, easy to use. However, with the market, Golf, they've really-- just like you said-- they steal a lot from the ID.4, which is this very tech-forward, you know, touch screen, touch haptic, festooned dash. And it's very different from what I'm used to in Volkswagens of the past.
And I found myself constantly being annoyed by the little volume slider to change the volume. Like, there's no knob anymore. And the climate controls were adjusted by this, also, like, a little touch haptic thing on there. And honestly, I found myself-- I kept accidentally hitting the volume or the climate control while I'm trying to play with the touch screen.
I don't really have any problems with the touch screen itself. That works really quickly and super smooth. But just some of the other small execution areas and, like, where they placed some of the buttons, in that they're all touch haptic. So if you accidentally, like, brush up against one, all of a sudden, you're bringing up an entirely different screen.
And you're like, oh. You know, and you're trying to go 50 miles an hour down the road. And it's like, ah, I can't even adjust my volume because it's pretty annoying that way.
Now, that said, I still really like the way the interior looks. I know that the Golf R that I had was full of all the classic blue accents, you know, a lot of suede on the seats, just really interesting trim in general. But I am curious to see if you had, you know, similar thoughts on the usability and just sort of a different approach that Volkswagen seemed to take to the interior in general.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I would say it was like a whiff or a riff on the ID.4 as far as the execution in the Golf GTI. You know, I found it a little more cumbersome because, you know, the old Golf, just all trim levels were-- it was so, like, just basic, and simple, and intuitive.
You know, it's a little, I would say, almost unsettling to have, you know, that much of your attention, perhaps, dare I use the word "distracted" by the infotainment, you know. Like, it's a little more work than I care to put into it.
Now, the ID.4 that I drove a couple months ago-- maybe I'm giving it a pass because it's an EV, and you sort of expect the EV to have the futuristic thing. But, you know, I mean, infotainment is infotainment. So I don't know. This was a little bit more than I wanted in the GTI. But, I mean, I could live with it.
It wouldn't stop me from buying the car. Let me put it that way. And it was OK. It was easy enough to figure out.
But so it goes, you know, it wasn't my-- it wouldn't be a deal breaker, but I wouldn't say it's a total asset. You know, like, they're billing this as, like, the digital GTI. And I think you've gotta do that. You know, you can't, like, basically kill the Golf in the United States, and then only bring the Golf R and the GTI, and say we're making, like, these sort of niche performance machines towards enthusiasts, and then just roll out the ball like it's 2012 again. Like, you gotta do some of this stuff.
But, you know, I was just very meh on the execution, you know? It looks OK. But it's a little bit of a pain to use.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely like the way that, you know, somebody like Audi executes on a lot of their touch controls better than the way this was.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: But just like you were saying, would it stop me from actually buying the car? No. The car is still brilliant to drive. And it's a lot of fun.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Yeah. This is a riff on their MIB 3, I want to say, like, infotainment, electronic architecture. And, you know, I don't know. I think they're still wrenching on that one, if you will, to get it totally good.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Yep. Yep. I wouldn't doubt it.
GREG MIGLIORE: These were European-spec cars, which is kind of cool. So if you're listening to this, let's say it's Memorial Day weekend, which oh, hey, wait. It is.
And maybe you're grilling some hot dogs. You got a can of beer on the patio. You're walking the dog if it's too hot.
You're probably wondering, where the heck are these stories? So my story is probably gonna run on Tuesday. So look for it.
I guess that's June 1, right? And then Zac has the Golf R. We're looking to schedule that one out probably on Wednesday.
So if you're listening to this, you know, as soon as, perhaps, Friday for the weekend, come back next week. We'll have both these reviews up. And they should be pretty good.
We're calling them first drives because they are. But they're definitely first drives. These are, like, European-spec. Mine was actually a German car, I think. I imagine yours was probably as well.
ZAC PALMER: It was, yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So yeah. So it was cool to drive them. One thing-- I don't know about your car. Mine had, like, normal-- like, I guess that's the beauty of digital-- is it had just everything was in miles. It was all calibrated.
You know, sometimes you get, like, a European-spec car, and it's in kilometers. And you're like, OK. Great.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Yeah. No. Thankfully, all of that was set to our US units of measurement.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: No. The weirdest thing about, you know-- because we've driven a few of these European-spec cars, and this is actually foreshadowing the discussion about the adaptive lights that we'll have later-- but, you know, the biggest weird things you'll find there is, like, the navigation doesn't work.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: The radio doesn't work. And then I know on the front of mine, they actually had a German Deutschland license--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, mine too.
ZAC PALMER: --which, you know, you sort of see that, you know, from, you know, somebody who's, like, a German car enthusiast. That's a modification sometimes. And it was just sort of neat to drive around with that plate and a car that, well, nobody else in the US has been able to drive yet.
GREG MIGLIORE: It is a-- that's a modification. If I were to get the GTI, I would get one of those European plates in front. The German ones look good because they're, like, long, rectangular. You get the-- you know, they're, like, six or seven letters and numbers. It's a really good look on a GTI or a Golf R.
So we don't have the actual specs out. But one of the things you can, you know, just read in our stories is, like, some of our estimates, if you will. I'm guessing that 0 to 60 in my-- my GTI, if you will, is about 5.4 to 5.5, somewhere in there. So pretty quick.
We got a little bit more horsepower in the GTI this year, a little bit more torque. 241 and 273. That's the-- I think it's the EA, like, 0888 or something like that in Volkswagen parlance. That's the code name to the four cylinder.
You know, the curb weight, I think they're gonna go up a little bit. I estimated about 3,200 on the GTI. And that's, like, very close to where it is now. Stuff like that.
Mine-- so the Golf R, probably $41,000 starting. It's a pretty good deal for all the car you get. The one I tested, the GTI, it was like an SE trim, but it had some stuff on it.
It had DCC. It had the bigger touchscreen in the middle, 10.25 inches. And I think it-- yeah, it was 10 inches. And the base one's, like, 8.25. So it had some stuff on it, if you will.
But, again, it's a German car. There was no Monroney, anything like that. So mine, kind of sketching this, was about $38,000.
And one of the points I would make is $38,000 is almost exactly the average cost of a new vehicle in the United States, perhaps pre-COVID or something. But, I mean, that's, like, the number we would generally use as, like, sort of the equator of car buying. I've heard it's bumped up maybe to around $41,000, which puts it right into your Golf R territory.
ZAC PALMER: It does.
GREG MIGLIORE: But for me, that's about a-- it's a good investment if you're an enthusiast, you know? Like, $38,000-- you're working, you know, you want to spend some money, but you don't want to spend a ton of money. It's a good investment, is what I would say. And you'll always be able to resell your GTI.
So and then the base car currently is, like, $29,000 before, like, title, destination, all that good stuff. So really, you're talking probably closer to $31,000. Let's assume for the new model year, it kind of goes up to more like $32,000, $33,000. You know, that's totally reasonable.
I've always liked the GTI in it's very base trim too, though, just because, like, the beauty of all the stuff you can get on, like, a $29,900, like, SE GTI and all the fun you can have, you know, again, it was just a beautiful thing. So I think the value proposition is really still there for these cars.
ZAC PALMER: Yep. Yeah. I know, I mean, if you can get one, you know, right around the same base price-- which I suspect you will be able to get one around $30,000 when they do come out here, and if you get the manual and relatively sparsely equipped-- you know, that still feels like a really, really good deal to me. When it does approach $40,000 is when it starts to feel like, wow. I'm getting really close to Golf R territory.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: I could have all-wheel drive, could have another 60, 70 horsepower. And yeah, then it does start to get tricky. Like, do I want this GTI? Maybe I could even buy a Civic Type R for, like, $38,000.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: You know, that starts to get pretty tough, honestly. I've always had a bit of an issue with the Golf R's price because it has been so expensive, $40,000 plus, and upwards of, like, $42,000, $43,000 if you throw some options and the DSG on there. And the all-wheel drive system has never been what feels like a $40,000-plus all-wheel drive system.
GREG MIGLIORE: Agreed.
ZAC PALMER: But this one finally does. And this time, I can finally say that, you know, when you buy this $41,000 Golf, you know, you're getting an all-wheel drive system that is going to make you happy. You know, I can compare it, in a way, to the Mercedes AMG CLA 45's all-wheel drive system in that the car feels away more tail happy in wheel drive than it probably should, which is cool, which is why I've always-- you know, it fixes that issue. So if you didn't like the Golf R before, I'd say this is a definite sign to go give it another try if that's in your price range.
GREG MIGLIORE: I would absolutely love to get either one of these cars on a track. I think it would be an absolute riot. The one thing I have somewhat-- you know, I've basically been making the case for the GTI for this whole show so far. But on a track, it's really tough to beat a Golf R. You know, it's just, like, the all-wheel drive, I tend to-- you can get a manual with a Golf R.
But I tend to associate that car with the dual clutch. That just feels, to me, more like the Golf R experience. And that's my own impressions. I don't know. I mean, you can get whatever you want.
But to me, that's more like the experience. And then the GTI is more you go with the manual even though the dual clutch is great in the GTI as well. But I would love to get the Golf R on a track. It kind of takes some of the thinking out for you, a little bit more technical, like with this new all-wheel drive system, get the dual clutch, and then really try to make some nice lines with that.
ZAC PALMER: No, it would be a lot of fun on a track. I can already tell that the torque vectoring would be just perfect, absolutely perfect, because it really, really does help you when you're on the road and cornering. It's only going to be exaggerated when you're on a track.
GREG MIGLIORE: I did take the Mk7 GTI on GingerMan, which is a track here in Michigan, for those of you who know, you know, tracks. And it was pretty fun. That's a good track for it too because you can, you know, frankly, miss some shifts, and just kind of, like, you know, get on the throttle, let the revs build, and so it goes. But if I were on, I don't know, Monticello, give me the Golf R or maybe an M3. But we should probably talk some news.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. News time.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, news time. Mazda6, this is one of our favorite cars. We were just talking about this when I was-- I had driven the Accord and the Camry. And we were trying to rate some of these, you know, the midsize sedan segments. And we're like, well, you know, the Mazda6, we've always given that an editor's pick.
Now what about the Sonata? Or, you know, what do we do? You know, we gotta give this many editor's picks? Well, we don't have that problem anymore, it sounds like. At least after this model year.
Really sad to see this car go. The other part of the news here was that the CX-3 is done, which is no surprise to anyone. They added the CX-30. And you don't need two vehicles that are very similar in mission. But for me, the headliner here is that one of the better midsize sedans is done after this model year.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Yeah, I know. It is sad because, you know, this, the Mazda6, and the Honda Accord have always been my two favorites out there.
And the Mazda6, arguably, is the best driving midsize sedan, which makes this extra sad for enthusiasts who like this car. I've recommended this car to so many people. I've had a few people take my word for it and buy it.
You know, it's a really, really good sedan. But Mazda is probably discontinuing this, you know, if I had to make guess, hopefully to make room for a new midsize sedan coming down the line that has been rumored and reported to be a rear-wheel drive based sedan with an inline-six. And maybe it's not called the Mazda6. Maybe it is called the Mazda6.
But regardless, if we get that, you know, maybe a year or two from now, this will make the Mazda6's passing much more palatable and much less sad. Now, obviously there's always the chance that Mazda decides, oh, this is a sedan. Maybe the US market doesn't want it because apparently, everybody wants to buy a crossover these days. That would be unfortunate.
But no, we'll see. I mean, you can always count on Mazda-- you can always count on them to come out with something, you know, interesting and fun to drive for us. So it'll be sad to see this one go. But hopefully what comes next will be even better.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think if they can follow through on that strategy, then that's a trade I would make, you know, because the Mazda6 is a great-driving sedan. It looks great, amazing chassis. Steering is good.
But it is a front-wheel drive based car. And if you're telling me, hey, I can get a rear-wheel drive based car that's a true sports sedan, OK. You make that trade, because the 6, as it is, is about as good as a mainstream midsize sedan could be.
But if you're gonna give me an enthusiast midsize sedan, sign me up for that. And I think they could really-- like, if there's a company that could do that, it's them, you know? Them or Genesis. Genesis is the only other company that I think is really diving into sedans performance-oriented with gusto, you know. So yeah, if anybody can do it, it's Mazda.
ZAC PALMER: Yep. And it's gonna be really nice. You know, they're always going for the, you know, premium plus segments out there.
So, you know, the interior's going to be much more luxurious than you might expect. It's probably gonna way undercut European competition as far as the price goes. We | have to wait for it and just hope that it actually happens.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: I hope so.
GREG MIGLIORE: So since we're going down, like, just fantasy car options, Alfa's talking about reviving the GTV and the Duetto. I mean, that's-- you know, you're talking, like, really, fantasy football here at this point, you know, as far as, like, you know, just great things that we would love to see. But the CEO of Alfa made these comments. And Ronan Glon, one of our European freelancers, has reported on him. Check out that story.
Basically, what he's saying is there probably are other priorities now. But these are two nameplates they could look to revive as they fill out the Alfa Romeo lineup. And I think, you know, sure. You want to bring these back? I love it.
That's a great idea. That's almost like, you know, if Chevy were to say, hey, we're gonna bring back a rear-wheel drive Impala. You guys good with that?
Sure. Yes. Please do. Like, you know, when Dodge brought back the Charger, there weren't too many people who said, eh, you don't want to do that.
You know, like, this is playing right to the base. I mean, I would say who knows if they're gonna actually do either of these. I actually think the Duetto makes a fair amount of sense for them, because you're Alfa Romeo.
You want to have, like, a sporty, little convertible. You know, you want to have something that really reinforces who you are as, like, a luxurious, Italian, sporting brand. You're not Maserati. You're not Ferrari.
But you're also not just, you know, random sort of premium mark that's lumped in there with Buick, and Infinity, and all these other brands. Like, you really want to steer into your heritage. So using names like this can help.
I mean, Lincoln has done it to great effect. So, I mean, this is promising to see. But I'm not gonna sign out a mortgage on, you know, this rumor. But we'll see.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. No, so I actually saw a Duetto, I think it was two days ago.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: Some guy cruising around with the top down. Beautiful weather out here. He was definitely having a really, really great time.
I mean, sort of the modern equivalent of that, you know, that we've had up until the past year or two has been the FIAT 124 Spider. You know, we have had an Italian convertible that's fun to drive, that's interesting. However, FIAT just discontinued that. So we no longer have that.
You know, would it be really awesome if Alfa Romeo did something, you know, and actually made a proper, like, small convertible luxury sports thing, yeah, I mean, I would love that. I would triumph it like crazy.
Is it what I think that Alfa Romeo needs to be, like, super relevant and bring themselves to, you know, some greater sales success or, you know, just general success in the US? Eh, maybe not.
I mean, it's gonna be a low volume something or other that, you know-- it sort of depends how you go about it. Like, is it going to be a halo car? Like, is it gonna be this really, like, big, expensive, like, $100,000 luxury convertible?
Or is it gonna sort of be like the original Duetto and be this, you know, sort of small, cheaper, fun little sports convertible? Obviously that didn't really work that well when it was badged as a FIAT, because it doesn't exist anymore. But, you know-- and obviously, I wouldn't say that Alfa Romeo can't do it, because it would get a lot of praise, and it would probably be a lot of fun.
As for the GTV, you know, that sort of speaks to my desire for wanting a Giulia coupe. I mean, that car is so, so much fun. And, you know, you look at the other cars that are out there-- you know, you can get a 4 Series. That's a coupe.
You can get a C-class coupe. You can get an Audi A5 coupe. You know, if they did that, made sort of a Giulia coupe or maybe something like a Giulia coupe and called it a GTV, it seems like there's a space for it to fit in.
You know, once again, it's not gonna be this crazy, hot-selling anything, because it's not a crossover like the Tonale that is coming, that is, you know, gonna be that car that can hopefully push Alfa Romeo forward into the US with more volume and more relevance. But something like a GTV/Giulia coupe sounds right up my alley for something that can be fun out there.
And do a Quadrifoglio version too. Throw that big 2.9-liter twin turbo V6 in there. Make it sound like a Ferrari. Make it awesome.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's a Ferrari engine. That's right.
ZAC PALMER: Yep. Exactly.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: So there's a whole lot of potential for extremely cool things here. And it sounds like the Alfa Romeo CEO is, you know, not necessarily closed to the idea either, which, you know, you love to see with such a storied brand like Alfa that has its heritage to pull from. Will they do it, though? I also share your doubts.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. There's a lot of different, you know, things that could get in the way of this. At different points, the GTV and the Spider were sort of related in the '90s. Going farther back, the GTV name was actually used on the Giulia.
So I could definitely see them, you know, sort of hedging or doing something like, hey, we said we'd bring back the GTV, but it's a version of the Giulia, which I don't think-- I mean, reading between the lines here, the Alfa boss here is kind of aiming for something, like, a little more ambitious like separate model lines, which I think would be the way to go. It's just he's sort of-- and I love it when brands do this, whether it's in cars or sports. They sort of take a chapter of their history, then try to make it something that fits the modern time.
And that's great because as enthusiasts, we get to buy in to this modern thing that is like what it used to be. But then sometimes it's, like, it's not exactly what it used to be. You know what I mean? Like, what is the GTV in 2025 really gonna be, you know?
But there's a couple chapters they could pull from. So that's exciting. I drove a 1969 Spider once-- which I believe, technically, falls into the Duetto lineup.
That was awesome. I got a speeding ticket in it. Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: That's an awesome story. That sounds like so much fun. I've never driven an old Alfa Romeo.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: And, you know, everybody that says that they've driven one, they just love them to death. You know, they'll say, I mean-- people will say, that is the best steering of any car I've ever driven ever bar none. And it was an Alfa Romeo from the '60s or the '70s.
GREG MIGLIORE: They're somewhat affordable too. You know, like, you could still get one. The problem is I'm not too mechanical. So, I mean, it would cost me as much paying to keep it on the road as it does probably just to buy one.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. The cop asked me, he's like, do you know how fast you were going? And I looked down, and the speedometer was in kilometers and broken. And I said, well, honestly, I have no idea.
And he was like, well, I think I clocked you at, like, 60 or 70. And I was in, like, an industrial park. So that was a fun drive, though. So that's my Alfa story and one of the fun things you get to do in this business.
More forward facing, let's talk EV Bronco and EV Explorer. Explorer, I believe, is, like, essentially, like, confirmed. And Bronco is probably a hard maybe, it sounds like. And by that, I mean they're probably gonna do that too.
I read somewhere, like, 40% of Fords will be electric in the relatively near term. So this is obviously part of the strategy. You actually wrote this story, Zac. What's your take on it?
ZAC PALMER: I did. So yeah, this story stems from a presentation that Ford was giving yesterday about their electric future and that yes, 40% of all their vehicles sold by 2030 will be electric, so they claim right now.
And during that presentation, they put up a slide of something that looks very suspiciously like an electric Bronco. Basically, as I describe the image here to you, it's the outline of a Bronco with a massive battery pack under the floor and spoken within context of other electric vehicles like the F-150 Lightning and the E-Transit. It really gives it away when you have the big tire hanging off the rear of the vehicle.
So what's pictured here is, you know, it's basically a Bronco. There's no other vehicles from Ford that you could mistake it for. And Ford also said that they're moving on to electrify their icons. Now, what that means for Ford is Bronco, Bronco Sport, Mustang, and those specific vehicles.
So you read between the lines, Ford didn't actually say the words, quote, "we are building an electric Bronco." They did not say that. They're just heavily suggesting that one is in the works, so much so that, you know, we can be pretty safe in assuming that, you know, one day-- not sure what day that will be, maybe a few years from now, maybe just two years from now, I'm not really sure-- but one day, there will be an electric Bronco out there.
And that was pretty much the gist of it. But on top of that, Ford essentially confirmed-- this one, they did explicitly say, we will fully electrify the Ford Explorer. So you can expect that somewhere down the road.
Will it be on the current Explorer generation? You know, it could be, might not be. Once again, you know, we're looking at a 2030 date as, you know, an outlook for, at this point, 40% of our cars.
And the Explorer is one of Ford's biggest volume sellers. They sell around 200,000 of them a year, which is, you know, about a fifth of the number of F-150s they sell, for some Ford volume perspective. So one day, the Explorer will also be electric.
And will there also be a hybrid and probably gasoline version there too? Yeah, probably. It won't be just an electric-only model like the Mustang Mach-E is. But, you know, in addition to your traditional output motivational forces, you'll have an electric one, which is good for everybody, because everybody seems to want a three-row crossover these days.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true. That's true. Cool.
So staying with Ford, the Lightning, this is the work truck, more like the entry level one. If you look around, you saw a lot of websites pegged the starting price around $39,000. The actual truck probably most people will get is actually about $51,000, still pretty reasonable for all the stuff you get.
As far as just almost, like, the tradesmen, the work truck version, if you use, like, RAM parlance here, this is more like, you know, the contractor truck. And it looks like you get a lot of stuff. We got a few more details on that this week. Nothing really Earth shattering here.
But I think Ford is doing a good job of making this truck accessible at a variety of price points. And I think traditionally, the very basic F-150 in RAM, in particular, there have been two trucks you can get in very, like, spartan trim that are quite good still. You know, you're making some creature comfort trade-offs. But it's still a pretty reasonable driving experience.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. You know, the one thing that I was worried about when Ford talked about this $40,000 electric F-150 was that, like, all right, so we didn't know the specs. Are they gonna, like, make it a rear-drive only? Is it gonna be super down on power?
Or is it gonna be, like, under 200 miles of range? Are they gonna hamstring it in some weird way that makes it so cheap? And I was pleasantly surprised Monday morning when the news dropped that no, it is not hamstrung in any way from an electric power perspective.
It's the same battery as the $52,000 truck. You know, you can get either 230 or 300 miles of range. And it's also the same pretty wicked-high 426 horsepower and 775 pound feet of torque, which is awesome. And you can get that for, you know, the base price, which is $39,000 and some change, plus I'm sure the destination charge will add another $1,000, $1,500 to that.
So you can hop into an F-150 electric, you know, for just over $40,000. And, you know, the basics are still there, which is what I think is most important when you're looking at this price point. You know, even though you do have those basics, you know, you have a decent interior as well, still have the 12-inch touch screen. You know, it's not the giant 15-inch screen that you can get in the higher trims.
But honestly, like, the electronics are there. The capability is there. They're not, like, leather stitched heated and cooled seats. They're vinyl seats, which I think a lot of people would actually be pretty cool with in a pickup if you're doing work with it.
And yeah, I mean, you can get the same maximum towing capacity, up to 10,000 pounds. This truck looks like a really, really rocking deal at the price that you can get it at. Obviously, you can go as crazy as getting one for over $90,000 if you get the Platinum.
But, you know, if you're looking to, you know, buy an F-150, you know, an you don't have Platinum money, you can go electric for a reasonable price. And I think that that's-- you know, that is really gonna hopefully cause a big sea change in what kind of pickups people buy.
GREG MIGLIORE: The number they're throwing at you is, like, $39,974, just reading your subhead in your story from Monday.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Like, that's MSRP before destination and all the stuff you actually do have to pay that makes it more like $41,000. But, I mean, to your point there, Zac, like, not only is that a pretty good deal on an F-150 with a lot of power, it's a pretty good deal on an electric car. You know, like, electric cars are not cheap. And you're gonna get that kind of range and that kind of capability, I mean, jeez. I mean, like, think about it.
You're like cross-shopping capabilities with, like-- I mean, what do you get for, like, $41,000 from a Tesla, you know? Like, this is, I think, really, to use the cliche, paradigm shifting. You know, this could really change truck buyers. And I think you can also change electric vehicle buyers.
And I think that's actually a beautiful thing. You know, you're sort of taking-- politics aside, you're taking, like, both sides of the spectrum, if you will, and pushing them towards the middle where you're like, well, wait a minute. Jeez. This is an electric car? I get all of this for this much money?
OK. Let's look at it. Or, you know, I'm a traditional truck owner, but I could get an electric, and it costs this much? I mean, you're really gonna win a lot of people over with this kind of price and performance. And at the end of the day, you know, people care about the money.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. And we haven't even mentioned the Federal EV tax credit or state credits as well.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's right.
ZAC PALMER: And if you live in California, or Washington, Oregon, I mean, you'll get even more on top of the $7,500 Federal. This just over $40,000 truck is now in, like, the low $30,000's, which is sort of mind-blowing when it comes to-- I mean, any pickup period, you cannot--
GREG MIGLIORE: Right?
ZAC PALMER: Any full-size pickup-- even mid-size pickups these days, something in the low $30,000's is just like, what happened? Does this truck have air conditioning and manual windows? Or, like, why is it so cheap?
GREG MIGLIORE: It's a little bit of a throwback to, like, 20 years ago, 30 years ago when, like, trucks were, like, the value. Because you would get them, and they were cheaper. But, you know, you either got, like, a really, like, a work truck or something, but you could also just get stuff on them. And they didn't really upcharge you as much perhaps in the '90s or in the '80s.
You know, so it's a little retro in that sense. And yeah, I mean, it seems like a screaming-good deal. And I know just today, there was news this morning the tax credit could get bumped to, I want to say, $12,500 or north of $12,000. There was-- I saw a Senator brought that up.
And apparently, it moved out of committee. So that doesn't mean it's going anywhere yet. But they're at least talking about it.
And there'd be some criteria. Like, I believe it would have to be built-- an electric vehicle built in the United States with, like, UAW workers. So that's not gonna work for everything. I believe the Mach-E wouldn't meet that criteria. But the F-150, which is built at the Rouge Factory in Dearborn would, so jeez, you know, $12,500 off the price of that. Man, that's a good deal, you know?
ZAC PALMER: You're gonna make me want to go put down a reservation on one, and I don't even need a pickup.
GREG MIGLIORE: Same.
ZAC PALMER: That's, like, a steal.
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, at that point, you're talking about, like, $29,000 for-- yeah. Give me the home upgrade charger, you know? Let's go wild here, you know?
ZAC PALMER: Exactly.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's a screaming deal. So all right. So that is our news.
You wrote a column about legalizing adaptive headlights. It took all of my, you know, restraint not to put some sort of, like, legalize whatever in the headlines to try to, you know, bring in, I guess, whatever legalization you want to do. But in all seriousness, it's an interesting piece. Why don't you take us through it.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. So this whole piece started when I drove a 2021 Porsche 911 Turbo. It's been about a month since I drove that car now. And just like the Volkswagen Golfs that we were talking about at the start of the show, it was a European-spec car from Germany, which means that it has the European-spec headlights on it.
And basically, these headlights, they're called adaptive driving beams, as you mentioned there in the headline, Greg. And the big, big feature with these is that the brights are essentially always in an on position in that they use sensors and cameras to read the road and block out the, you know, spaces where there's a car. So if there's an oncoming car, you know, the actual headlight element is made up of, you know, over 100 little LEDs. And it basically blacks out the LEDs that would otherwise be shining in the face of that oncoming driver, which allows you to keep bright level light thrown at the road in front of you, beside you, to the side of that driver, basically everywhere except in that driver's eyes.
And of course, when you have the brights on at that level, you can see more. Your visibility is better. It's just safer to drive at night. And that right there is, like, the one big selling point for these lights in that you can basically drive everywhere with your brights on and have that level of safety and comfort at night without blinding other people.
The problem here and why I'm asking, you know, we should legalize these, and that these lights are not legal in the United States yet. Back in 2013, Toyota petitioned NHTSA to amend our regulations to allow adaptive driving beams. And we're chilling in 2021 now, and that has not yet happened.
Now, the reason we can't have these is because our rules state that you have to have basically two separate elements and nothing else for your low beams and high beams. So you have to have one elements for low beams and one element for the high beams. And you can't mix like these adaptive driving beams do. It has to be either brights are on, brights are off. And that right there is what's holding us back.
And basically, you know, to get that changed-- manufacturers have been trying for a long time now. And we're just still sitting here in limbo waiting for them to come up with a final ruling to make it legal. Unfortunately, you know, Europe has had this technology for, you know, going on six, seven plus years at this point. And the US is-- you know, we have good stuff in that we have these awesome LED headlights and automatic brights. Lights are a lot better than they were 30 years ago.
But, you know, they could really be a lot better than even what they are today if we were to just get on it and legalize these headlights. And honestly, there are a lot of vehicles sold today from Audi, Porsche, other European brands for the most part, that actually have these lights installed in US-spec cars. And it would just take the legalization of this technology for them to flip a switch on the software side of things, and you already have thousands of cars on US roads with these headlights, you know, without any development time, without, you know, product life cycles, waiting two to three years for the lights to get in the cars.
It would mostly be luxury cars at this point. But obviously, if this tech is legalized, you know, then the non-luxury manufacturers will get in on it too. You'll see Fords, GM products, Stellantis, everybody will certainly get in on this because it's so much safer. It's just so much better. And I feel like I've been missing out this whole time without them.
GREG MIGLIORE: And they look good too. Aesthetically, they can add a lot to a car, obviously especially at night. But they're a nice feature. Some of the German car makers, in particular, have done a nice job of just dressing up those headlights.
I have driven this in Europe a while ago. And I think it's a very interesting approach. You know, I hope that they can sort of get this, you know, more, like, this improved here, because I think American consumers would enjoy the technology. They'd probably be willing to pay for it.
You know, stuff like this easily fits into, like, an upgraded luxury or tech package. I'm curious. What do you think, like, the next domino to fall would need to be, if you will, to make this happen? You think it's regulatory? You think there's a group that could maybe, you know, do some lobbying?
You know, I don't know. The OEMs haven't really pushed as hard, at least recently, to get this over the goal line. You know, I don't know. Is there a force, you think, that could make this happen?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. So with this opinion piece, I actually got in touch with a few different people who are involved in this. I contacted NHTSA, chatted with them. I did the same thing with Toyota because they're the ones that initiated the whole petition here in the US to begin with.
And right now, NHTSA has a proposed rule change out there. And so they were basically saying, OK, yes, we see that you want this changed. And we're OK that you want this changed. But there are some regulatory, I guess, roadblocks from the administration that they'll have to get through.
Basically, it's-- I don't want to say that it is political. But from what NHTSA told me and from what Toyota told me, there was supposed to be a final ruling made by the previous administration, the Trump administration. That never happened. And now it's up to Biden's administration, Biden's NHTSA, you know, the people that they appoint, and the people within NHTSA to actually come to an agreement and say yes, these are available, and then actually amend the rules.
They have the power to do that. It's not like there's any bill that needs to get passed through Congress or anything like that. There's just a massive set of rules of the road that you have to go through. And when that gets done, you know, we're not really sure.
I asked Toyota if they, like, had any sort of a timetable. And they were just like, we honestly don't know. They actually asked me because they were like, oh, you're looking into this with NHTSA. Let us know if you hear anything because clearly, they are hoping to hear some information, and they just have not heard anything yet.
But it looks promising, as though there could be something on the horizon maybe within the next year, maybe within the next two years. But yeah, I don't know. It's been eight years now since Toyota has originally petitioned. And there's still no movement, which is, you know, very classic slow government-- government runs slow.
GREG MIGLIORE: I can tell you this. I have covered NHTSA under four different administrations. And the one takeaway I have is they do not move quickly.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So check out the story. It's a really nice piece. It went up last week, actually. It's obviously on "Autoblog."
If you're looking for some weekend reading, search it out. It's a good read. And let's move on to-- we'll spend some money. But first, let's go to the mailbag here real quick.
We have an update from the "Spend My Money" from just last week, episode 679. This came from Wayne in Portland. Listened to the pod. Thanks for the suggestions.
This was, let's see, the gentleman who was looking to replace his Wrangler that, I believe, was totaled. So here's basically the update. Full disclosure, we already bought the Gladiator Rubicon in Snazzberry Pearl before I sent the email.
So essentially, what he was trying to do is see if we, like, concurred with what he did. And hey, that's cool. I appreciate that.
So basically wanted to see if we agreed or if, you know, should go kick himself and, you m,now, see if there was something that he didn't think of. So they're gonna do some camping adventures. And they're doing some-- looks like they're working on a build-out for that. So that's cool.
He threw in some pictures of the Wrangler, which was nicknamed Smoochy [INAUDIBLE]. And the Gladiator is, looks like, [INAUDIBLE] in its current state. So some cool car nicknames. It's good to name your car. Have you ever named any of your cars, Zac?
ZAC PALMER: No, I have not, actually. So I guess the closest thing to a name with my Integra, I sometimes refer to it as The Teggy.
GREG MIGLIORE: OK.
ZAC PALMER: But it's not like I've given it a name like Steve or something like that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Got it.
ZAC PALMER: So I just sort of handed it that nickname and sort of rolled with it. Sometimes call it The Integra, sometimes call it Teggy. Either one works.
GREG MIGLIORE: OK. All right. Well, fair enough.
ZAC PALMER: Yep.
GREG MIGLIORE: So let's see. The short list was a new Wrangler, a used Wrangler, a new Gladiator, and a new Bronco. They got the Gladiator. The Wrangler was just-- it was tough to kind of buy a Wrangler after they wrecked their Wrangler, a little bit of scar tissue.
Bronco would've been higher up, except it sounds like the waiting list was until next year. And they didn't want to miss the camping season. Of course, the Bronco, I don't believe, is actually on sale right now either. So there's that.
That's the large Bronco, not the Bronco Sport, which if you live anywhere in Michigan, they're literally on every corner. It seems like everybody used their employee discount to go get a Bronco Sport. They are everywhere. But yeah, fair point. If you want the actual Bronco, you gotta wait for it.
Basically, thought-- let's see. The [INAUDIBLE] suggestion was fantastic, though. Both Wayne and his wife have been into VWs for the last 20-plus years.
Let's see. He owns a 1990 Corrado. Very cool. And she owns a 2003 20th Anniversary GTI, 20th Anniversary Edition GTI. That's pretty neat.
So, you know, they were into some of Jeremy's VW van suggestions. So basically, sounds like we did a good job on that one, I'd say. So thanks for writing, and thanks for listening Wayne.
I tried to condense that letter. Hope I didn't butcher it up too much. But yeah, that's the update. Should we spend some more money?
ZAC PALMER: Let's spend some more money.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Looks like it's a similar off-roady theme this week too.
GREG MIGLIORE: Exactly. All right here. So scrolling down here, looking for some help. Spending some money on a new larger vehicle for a growing family.
The first baby is coming in September. Congratulations. They live in Georgia. And they're looking for a car they could commute in, a short city commute, and then use for regular weekend use and some long family trips up the East Coast.
Sounds like a good time. Right now, they have a '99 Wrangler that they are looking to replace. My guess is that experience is probably a little ragged at this point. You probably don't want to do too much commuting in a '99 Wrangler. Although if it's short, you're probably all right.
His wife has a 2019 Subaru Outback. That's a company car. They can both drive it, but it's not really a permanent solution. Makes a lot of sense there.
So let's see. He references the minivan discussion from a couple weeks ago. But they don't want that. Fair enough.
So they're looking to replace it with another boxy SUV, modern and safe. Budget is up to around $60,000. The frontrunner is the new Defender 110. But they're saying finding something closer to the stock version they like and could afford is nearly impossible.
I agree with that. I drove a Defender last fall. And it's an interesting vehicle because the price point is-- there's a lot of price points. Let's put it that way.
So let's see. They've looked at newer slightly used 4Runners. Other options are wait for the new 4Runner, whenever that might come out. Or the Rivian R1S. Thoughts or other suggestions?
I think I know what I'm gonna go with here. But, Zac, I'll kick it over to you. What do you think?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Man, so I have not driven the new Land Rover Defender. I have heard some really good things about it from everybody that has driven it.
And I do think that it is a strong frontrunner. But to have their-- you know, it's a family vehicle. It's going to be semi-luxurious. You know, even if you do get one that is around $60,000, it's gonna be pretty nice.
But, you know, it's also probably not going to be, you know, the vehicle that you might want to keep for 10 years or something like that. It's probably not going to be shiny, and new, and great, and super reliable that entire time if, you know, recent Land Rovers are any indication as to where this one is going to. Maybe if you're looking for something, you know, briefer out there in something like three or four years, just keep it under warranty, then that would be a really good choice.
However, honestly, your second option there with the 4Runner would probably be my number one pick. You can go and get something super cool like a TRD Pro. You can get a 4Runner TRD Pro with your $60,000 budget. You can actually be slightly under budget there, outfit it with some cool aftermarket stuff, if that's the way that you want to go.
It's gonna be wildly reliable, keep all of its value, probably just like your 1999 Wrangler is probably retaining far more value than you might expect it to be. And it's a Toyota. So, you know, I know as of late, you know, they've even updated the 4Runner with, you know, a massive suite of Toyota driver assistance systems. You can get adaptive cruise control, lane departure alert, that whole grab bag of stuff.
And if you like cool colors, they can give you a really cool color with the 4Runner as well. As for waiting-- you know, you mentioned those long-shot options-- I would not bet on a new 4Runner coming any time soon within the time period that you want it. I know that I haven't seen any rumors or any reports about a new one coming soon.
And then the Rivian, tough to recommend that one as well, because once again, I have never driven it. But if you're looking at EVs, that seems to be, you know, the one if you want something that is big, off-road capable, and also can seat a lot of people. There really aren't any other options coming any time soon. So 4Runner, number one pick, I think, for me. Seems like a great, you know, cool family vehicle that is not going to blow your budget out either.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Same. I actually kicked it over to you because I wanted to see if you might go with something different than the 4Runner.
But I like the Defender. You know, for $60,000, you could get a pretty nice one. And I feel like in some of the more basic trims, its doesn't quite stand out as much as it does once you really dress it up, and you get, like, the two-toned paint and the cool wheels.
But honestly, I've driven them both. The Defender is a more modern vehicle. You know, it's a Land Rover as opposed to a Toyota. So there's certainly some brand, you know, cachet there.
But at the end of the day, the budget's all the way up to $60,000? You can get the top 4Runner and still have almost $10,000 to spend on just some accessories. And I-- still, this is very, like, almost, like, an emotional, like, logic here. I like the 4Runner better.
I love the 4Runner. I think it's a lot of fun to drive. I love how it looks.
It's a little old school. It's a lot old school. Haven't heard about, really, any new 4Runners on the horizon. So, you know, when you said that, my first thought was, wait, what's going on? Is there a new 4Runner coming?
ZAC PALMER: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
GREG MIGLIORE: You know, I mean, even just sketching out the trims here, TRD Pro starts at $50,745. Add some destination, and you're probably still looking at $52,000, $53,000. You just want to spend the best 4Runner you got, that's cool.
You know, the Limited, I don't really-- that's not the look I want for a 4Runner, just as I'm going through here. I would probably drop back down to, like, a Venture Special Edition, which comes with the Yakima cargo basket, which is kind of neat.
And even in base trim, you know, a $38,000 4Runner or just a simple TRD off-road premium at $43,000-- not including destination chargers-- you're getting a lot of SUV there. You're getting a lot of off-roader for your money. And you're getting a pretty cool look. So I would definitely say 4Runner.
You know, maybe go drive a Defender. And it might be the kind of vehicle that you fall in love with. And if that's the case, then that's the car for you.
I mean, you know, car buying can be a very, like, evocative experience. It can be emotional. But, I mean, that's where I would land, is I would do 4Runner.
ZAC PALMER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: You know, there's one other, you know, if you are willing to wait. Because it does look like, you know, maybe wait for a new 4Runner or the Rivian R1S. I don't know how long you'd have to wait at this point, because there are a lot of preorders, but the Bronco 4-Door--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
ZAC PALMER: --as well. You know, you're ditching a Wrangler. So you're ditching a vehicle that is, you know, a bit of a rock crawler, really, really good off-road. The 4Runner will definitely be a little more practical than a Bronco, I'm guessing.
But, you know, you can get almost, like-- the Broncos are so much more modern than the 4Runner. You get so many more tech features, things that are probably gonna be better for a family lifestyle as well. So if you are willing to wait, and you are willing to most likely pay more than you're paying for the 4Runner, then, you know, maybe check out that 4-Door Bronco when they eventually hit the dealers later this year.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. That's a great point. Like, if you are willing to, like, wait for the Rivian, I would also wait for the Bronco, if you will, as far as just looking at time frames.
Rivian might be cool. But to your point there, Zac, who knows, you know? I mean, I don't think I'd be waiting on what's still essentially a startup car company to deliver my next car if I needed it any time soon. So yeah, Bronco.
But I would still lean towards 4Runner just as far as-- you know, you want to go camping this summer? Head down to your local Toyota dealership, and I think you'll get set up right away. And if you're willing you play the waiting game, absolutely, that Bronco is gonna be cool too, though.
ZAC PALMER: Yep.
GREG MIGLIORE: Cool. So that's all the time we have this week. Check out our Volkswagen Golf R and GTI stories when you're listening to this in the future. Send us year "Spend My Money's" or any other questions you have.
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Be safe out there. Have a great holiday. And we will see you next week.