Din Thomas talks moving on from American Top Team, the next generation of MMA and more

MMA trainer and “Lookin’ for a Fight” co-host Din Thomas talks MMA with Yahoo Sports’ Kevin Iole and explains how he’s keeping his fighters ready with gyms being shut down amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

Video Transcript

KEVIN IOLE: Hey, everyone. I am Kevin Iole, and welcome to my latest MMA interview. And my guest now is one of the OG in MMA, a guy that if you watched UFC back in the day, you could tell by that little bit of gray in the beard. He's a baby compared to me, but my friend Dean Thomas. Dean, how are you?

DEAN THOMAS: I'm good, man. How are you?

KEVIN IOLE: I am doing awesome. Before we get into just kind of shooting the breeze about MMA, you're in the news a little bit these days after kind of almost a lifetime of being with ATT, American Top Team in Florida, maybe the top gym in MMA. You've gone out on your own and started your own gym. What's going on? And tell us a little bit about your new gym.

DEAN THOMAS: Well, you know, the thing is, I didn't actually even start a new gym. I just wanted to be on my own and kind of freelance my services as a coach to whoever needs it. And so, I don't actually have a brick and mortar place right now where I'm working out of. I've been in the game for so long, though, that people have offered me to use their gym and I've been getting job offers like crazy.

But I'm just kind of want to do my own thing right now and just be able to work with fighters on my own and see if I can build something by myself.

KEVIN IOLE: I think MMA, when you think about it, is a young sport. Like you know, UFC began in late '93. So what are we? You know, going on 27 years old now, 26, 27 years old. And the one thing that I think bodes well for the future is the development of coaches like yourself, guys that fought, went through it, understand it, and then learn how to coach. Do you agree with that? And do you feel like as we go into this next generation of MMA, there's going to be an explosion of coaches who can really take the game to another level?

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah, I think so. And I think that is the next portion of it. Because as fighters are starting to make more money, I understand it's the economics of everything. As fighters are starting to make more money, they're going to need better coaching because they're not going to want to be in a room full of people learning the same thing that everybody else is learning Because one size does not fit all in this game. And that's kind of a problem that I was having, was that I can't train everybody the same. Everybody needs their own individual attention. And if you try to train everybody the same, you're not going to get good results.

So I think that as we get more advanced into this MMA game, we're going to see coaches to be a little bit more sophisticated and they're going to be smarter. And everybody is going to be doing bigger things and better things than we're doing now.

KEVIN IOLE: You know, I've talked to Dana White about this quite a bit. You know, in boxing, and that's where Dana comes from, you see, like a star fighter would create his own camp. And he would build a camp around him, as opposed to being in a gym where it was kind of a team atmosphere. Do you feel that that way is a better way in the sense that, then, as you're preparing for a fight-- if Dean Thomas is preparing to fight and you have all the coaches and everybody only focused on you and not on the rest of the team, does that make it better for you as a fighter?

DEAN THOMAS: Absolutely. I mean, if you look at all the champions, they came up through the big room, team atmosphere. And as they emerged, they stopped doing it. I can't think of any champion that probably still has their camp in the big room with everybody. Even in American Top Team, the champions are separated. They're separated and they have their own training partners.

And that's what I want to be a part of. I don't want to do the-- to me, it's a bit elementary. It's good for amateurs but for professional athletes that are looking to take their game to the next level, you need that individualized attention.

KEVIN IOLE: I want to talk to you about-- I know you coach Tyron Woodley. And Woodley to me is one of my favorite guys out there. I love the fact that he's outspoken. I love the fact that he uses his celebrity as a fighter to create other businesses and do things. And so, I am a big fan of what Woodley is doing in his life.

I have to say though, I was shocked at his performance against Kamaru Usman in their title fight. I wouldn't have been shocked if Usman won. I picked Woodley to win, but I wouldn't have been shocked if Usman won. But what I was shocked by was Woodley's performance. And it seemed like he almost wasn't there.

What were your thoughts on that? Were you surprised by it or did you see that coming?

DEAN THOMAS: No. I mean, here's the thing is, I'm not surprised by it, because I know how camp was. And I just know that he wasn't as motivated as he was in the other previous fights. When you talk about his camp for Darren Till or his camp for Robbie Lawler, he was extremely motivated and he wanted to really hurt these guys. And it reflected in the training.

In this camp, it wasn't. It was kind of like, show up and do your job. And so, when he went out to perform, it wasn't that I was surprised, because Usman put on a great performance.

KEVIN IOLE: Right.

DEAN THOMAS: You can't take away anything from that, but--

KEVIN IOLE: He fought great.

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah. Usman fought great. And I knew, Usman always fights great. He always fights his fight. But I never expected Tyron to get dominated that way.

KEVIN IOLE: Right.

DEAN THOMAS: Even on a bad night.

KEVIN IOLE: Yeah, that's what shocked me.

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah. I knew he wasn't going to be at 100%. But I didn't think he would get dominated that way. Which just led me to believe Tyron, he just wasn't there. He did not want to fight that night. He would have rather been anywhere in the world except for inside that cage.

KEVIN IOLE: As his friend and as his coach, during training camp, did you see this? You say you did see it. But did you talk to him and say, hey, dude, what's going on here? And let's get your butt in gear. I mean, did you try to kick him in the ass a little bit to try to get him rolling?

DEAN THOMAS: Well, no. I mean, a lot of things were kind of out of our control as well, you know, like sometimes there's injuries that kind of prevent some things from happening in training. The weather was like-- we did the camp in Milwaukee and the weather was bad. This was the time where he had that-- it was like negative 20 degrees so things were closing down. So there was a lot of different external factors that kind of played into the training camp.

And we've had other camps where he may not have been perfect but Tyron still put on a good performance, at least a good enough performance to get the job done. So that was kind of what I was hoping for in this fight, that I thought that Tyron was the better fighter between him and Usman. And that even if he doesn't have the best performance, he's still going to be better. But Usman showed us differently. Usman showed up to fight.

KEVIN IOLE: Just to wrap up on T-Wood, I wonder what your thought was, the fight with Leon Edwards. Were you seeing a different Tyron as you were preparing for that fight that was supposed to be, what, couple weeks ago now in England?

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah, absolutely. And Tyron got back-- we got back to the old Tyron. You know, we cut out all the external distractions. And we were going from gym to home, gym and home. I mean, we barely even went out to eat. Like, everything was gym, home. He had the massage therapist come to his house because we just wanted to cut out all distractions or any unnecessary trips that he would take because it was all business. And that's the type of Tyron that I like and I was expecting a great performance from him because of that.

KEVIN IOLE: I know you're close with Dana. You've been on the show "Lookin' for a Fight." You're one of the co-hosts. So you've become pretty popular by doing that with him. I don't get Dana's reaction to Tyron. And I don't get kind of the battles that they have. I mean, Woodley seems to me to be a guy that Dana would love, right? He's a guy that comes to fight and he's a guy that-- look at some of these knockouts he has. And the fact that he is doing this other stuff outside, have you tried to bridge the gap between the two of them? And do you make any headway?

DEAN THOMAS: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. There's no bridging the gap between those guys. And I think that if it does happen, one of them is just going to have to tuck their tail and say, hey, listen. You know what? This is beyond good working terms.

But the problem with those guys is that they're very similar. They think the same, you know? They're very stubborn and they're very similar. So you've got one guy who's very similar with his own ideas. The other guy is very similar his own ideas. And he just will not-- they're stubborn and they will not see eye to eye.

So I just stay out of it. It's kind of hard for me sometimes because like, if Tyron says something about Dana, I'm like, hey, that's my boy. And if Dana says something about Tyron, and I'm like, hey, that's my boy. So I kind of stay out of it.

KEVIN IOLE: Yeah. I tried a couple of times to say to David, hey, he's a good dude and everything. And I never get a good response back. And whenever I talk to Tyron, it's kind-- I think you're right. I think it's kind of a similar response.

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah. I mean, just when you got those type of strong personalities, it's hard to see eye to eye.

KEVIN IOLE: What was doing that series like, you and Matt Serra? I mean, I think Matt Serra is as crazy as Dana, right? I mean, he must be a fun guy to be around, I would imagine. What was it like filming that and some of the things that you did? And A, did you see your notoriety in the community? You know, obviously, as a UFC fighter, you're a well-known guy. What was it like after that? Did you see your popularity go up?

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah. You know, the funny thing about it is, I was even top five in the world at one time in my division. I had a career, a professional career the last 15 years. I fought all over the world. But I've never been more popular than I was from doing this shenanigan on Dana White Lookin' for a Fight. I mean, it really catapulted my status and my stardom, so to say. My pseudo-stardom.

KEVIN IOLE: Right.

DEAN THOMAS: In the world of MMA, I mean, I've never been more popular. But it's so fun hanging out with those guys. Dana, I think he gets a bad rap. He's such a fun-- he's a fun and very caring guy.

KEVIN IOLE: Right.

DEAN THOMAS: He's got a great sense of humor. He loves to laugh. He loves to pick on people. So we have a good time. And Matt Serra, he's the funniest guy, single-handedly the funniest guy I know. I mean, if he wanted to do comedy, he could. I don't know what it is about him, but he's so funny and it's so great to hang out with those guys. And we have a good time. And I just hope that he comes across on the screen, because we have a great time.

KEVIN IOLE: Yeah, I think it did. Are you planning to do that again? When this whole pandemic is over, are you going to do that again?

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah, I'm hoping so. I mean, there were talks about us trying to go out again like at the end of April or early May. But I think, obviously now that's going to be pushed back. But I'm hoping so, because I think what we do is good. I think people enjoy it. People like watching it and we have a good time. It's just a fun thing for MMA, because sometimes the guys in MMA can be kind of serious. So we need to lighten it up a little bit.

KEVIN IOLE: Exactly. I mean, the thing is, sports is fun. And I think that's one of the things that you guys make. You go out there and you have fun and you make it, hey, we love these fights. We want to go see the fight. But we're going to have fun while we're waiting for them to happen. And to me, that's what makes-- and I think a lot of MMA fighters have that attitude. I mean, I think it's great the way you guys promote yourselves and I think that's what's helped make it so popular. But that show, I think, really pushes that to a level.

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah. We're not afraid to make ourselves look bad. I mean, I don't know if you saw the last episode where Dana really took it on the chin. I mean, he made himself look bad. He just ate it. So we're not afraid to make ourselves look bad. And I think that makes us a little bit more relatable.

KEVIN IOLE: Right. Yeah, I've been asking a lot of people I've been interviewing, we're a couple of weeks away from UFC 249, if that goes off as scheduled. I don't bet against Dana White. He says it will, so we'll see if it does or not, what the health situation is in a couple weeks.

But I want your thoughts as a high level coach. What are your thoughts on Tony versus Khabib? And give me all your thoughts on what each guy would have to do to win the fight.

DEAN THOMAS: Well, Tony possesses all the dangerous problems for a guy like Khabib. And he's a different fighter from anybody that Khabib has ever fought. Being that he doesn't have to get back to his feet if he gets taken down. He's going to be hard to take down at times, but he doesn't have to get back to his feet. Every other opponent that Khabib fought, they had to get back to their feet. They didn't have a strong enough ground game, so they were forced to give up their back. And Khabib was just such a good controller. So I think Tony has that.

But I think the biggest thing that Tony has that most other guys don't have is his durability. You cannot stop him. He won't slow down. He's going to keep coming forward no matter how bad he's beaten. He's going to keep coming forward. And I think that could give Khabib problems because Khabib likes to take time off or he likes to pace himself a little bit.

If Tony's coming at him at a pace in which Khabib can't keep up with, he's going to have problems. So I think that's the biggest thing. And obviously, everybody talks about Tony's elbow and how dangerous he is [INAUDIBLE] as a weapon. But I think his durability and his pace could be a problem for Khabib. And Khabib's hands-- no, I'm sorry.

KEVIN IOLE: Go, no, go ahead.

DEAN THOMAS: OK, now for Khabib, when he gets Tony down, I don't think Khabib will be able to strike him down. But when he gets Tony down, which I think he can, he's got to make sure he keeps Tony flat on the ground. He can't let him ball up and start rolling around. He's got to keep him flat. Got to get chest to chest and make sure he can hold Tony down for awhile and try to hurt him and slow him down.

That's going to be difficult, though, but-- especially for five rounds. But he's got to get him down and keep Tony's shoulder on the mat.

KEVIN IOLE: What I was going to ask you, and you kind of alluded to it for a second there as you were talking about Khabib, I was talking to Michael Chiesa the other day. And one of the things I threw out to him is, I thought that maybe they might surprise us and it might be a striking battle. And that Khabib's best chance to win may be striking. And my argument was this. I think Khabib has the faster hands. And like you say, I think if Khabib gets Tony down, those elbows from the bottom, Tony can do a lot of damage from the bottom.

And so my thought was, maybe Khabib fakes like a shot and then starts throwing in his overhand right. And that you'll see from that standpoint, him hurt Tony. Because I kind of feel like from the bottom, Tony does so much damage. Look at what he did with Kevin Lee and whatnot. So to me, that was a thought of an alternate way the fight could go. Do you see any way it would happen that way?

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah, it could. Like, Khabib has a lot of tricky level changes to punches. You saw his fight against Thiago Tavares. He hit him with what he called the eagle punch, where he fakes the shot and then comes up with his left hand. So it's almost like a left uppercut. And he knocked Thiago Tavares out with that. So like, he's got a lot of tricky punches. We always see the over hand, right, that he hit on Conor, but he's got a lot of tricky punches when he's taking his shot.

If he uses that in addition to his striking, he could win some striking exchanges. But I don't think he's going to be the better striker just because Tony's a little bit too long for him.

KEVIN IOLE: If you had to make a pick, who are you picking to win?

DEAN THOMAS: If I had to make a pick, absolutely had to make a pick, I would pick Tony.

KEVIN IOLE: Pick Tony, interesting. I tell you, that's a fight. I mean, I can't remember a fight, Dean, that I was looking forward to more than that. I mean, that is a fight. I think it has everything and guys that have a little bit of everything they can do. And to me, it's going to be one of the craziest fights that there has been. I just hope to God it goes off and we get to see this.

DEAN THOMAS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm hoping so, too. I mean, but listen. If Dana says it's going to happen, you can bet it's going to happen.

KEVIN IOLE: Yeah. He is adamant that it's happening. So if he beats this worldwide pandemic, then I'll tell you what. He goes even to another level.

DEAN THOMAS: Oh, I think so.

KEVIN IOLE: Going to be amazing. Hey, and before I let you go, let let's talk about that briefly. We're in the middle of a worldwide pandemic. Gyms are closed. Now, what do you do to keep your fighters in shape during this period of time when you can't go to a gym, your social distancing is in effect and all that. How do you keep fighters ready so that when it does come back, that they're not on this long period and have to go into training camp and just start over?

DEAN THOMAS: Well, I got about three or four fighters that I'm working with right now that I've been working with. And we do our responsibility of not going any place else other than home and then with each other. So I'm not really concerned with them giving me this coronavirus because we've got that agreement that we're not going anywhere or contact with other people. But I've got about three or four fighters that I'm kind of working with on the side like in parks and things like that, just keeping them sharp and keeping them ready.

Because when this is over, life will continue. And if you're thinking optimistically about it, life will continue. And I just want to make sure that they stay ready, and not only just staying ready, but getting better. I think that's kind of good for us.

KEVIN IOLE: Right.

DEAN THOMAS: I mean, at the end of the day, I can still get fighters better.

KEVIN IOLE: That'll be interesting. You know, I wonder what you think of this. Did you see the Brasilia Show? And could you imagine yourself fighting? You were in the Ultimate Fighter, so you had a little bit of this. But imagine fighting in front of an arena of 15,000 people and there's nobody there. You know, all those empty seats and that quiet. Would that change the dynamic in any way of a fight?

DEAN THOMAS: I think it would a little bit. But fighters still have a job to do. You know, being in the Ultimate Fighter did prepare me for that because I felt what it was like. And actually, it felt a little eerie, like we were doing something wrong.

But at the same time, I think that fighters would be less nervous going out. And you'll see better performances from fighters because they're not going to be influenced by the crowd for be nervous about a crowd. So they'll go out and put up their best effort.

KEVIN IOLE: Do you think we'll get better judging because of that same reason? Because you know, if you're fighting a fan favorite, you don't have to worry about the judges being influenced by the crowd cheering for the favorite?

DEAN THOMAS: Oh, absolutely. I think that's probably the biggest thing that we're getting. We'll probably be getting more fair judging. Because again, that happens all the time. The one guy throw the punch and he listens, but the crowd goes crazy. And then the judges start this favorite act. They're looking at that. I think that would be very helpful.

KEVIN IOLE: That's awesome. Dana, I appreciate you very much. Thank you so much for the time. Great stuff. One of the legends of this sport and it's my honor to get a chance to talk to you today. I appreciate you.

DEAN THOMAS: Thank you, man. Thank you for having me.