Boxed In: Best Team Ever – 1985 Bears vs. 1995-96 Bulls

What is the greatest team of all time? Coinciding with Yahoo Sports’ Best Team Ever bracket, Dan Wetzel, Charles Robinson & Chris Haynes duke it out over two of the finalists on the premiere episode of Boxed In. In a surprisingly Chicago-centric episode, Charles argues for Jim McMahon, Walter Payton and the 1985 Bears, while Chris stands up for Michael Jordan, Dennis Rodman and the 1995-96 Bulls.

Video Transcript

[BIRDS CHIRPING AND MUSIC PLAYING]

DAN WETZEL: Welcome to the premiere episode of "Boxed In," the Yahoo Sports coronavirus-inspired debate show. My name is Dan Wetzel. Normally a columnist at Yahoo, but today I am the judge, the jury, and the executioner to try to settle an outstanding sports debate-- what is the greatest team in sports history? And our two contenders are they 1995-96 Chicago Bulls and the 1985 Chicago Bears.

We have a series on the Yahoo! Sports site you can go join, Best Team Ever. These are two of the finalists. Making the case for the Bulls, we have Chris Haynes from our NBA coverage team. Making the case for the Bears, we've got Charles Robinson from our NFL coverage team. Gentlemen, let's start with this-- opening statements on why your team is the best one. Let's start with Counselor Haynes.

CHRIS HAYNES: Well, when you're talking about the best teams, you've got to talk-- you have to mention the players that were involved on that team. And, you, know none other than Michael Jordan, who was the greatest basketball player of all time, iconic on the court, off the court. Then you talk about the supporting cast. Scottie Pippen.

You talk about one of the most colorful individuals to ever play this game in Dennis Rodman and what he was able to do on the defensive end and the way he was able to grab rebounds and not being at-- you know, not being at a supreme height level. But you add all of that, the controversy-- the rock band controversy-- and I'll start talking about my partner over there, Charles, and who he's debating for.

But when you talk about just a rock band, that thing worked. This is a team that people are going to remember years and years and years down the road later. Some of these teams that we may be talking about, you all remember them really when you talk about the personalities and the character that they had. Good nonetheless. But the Chicago Bulls, you will remember them [INAUDIBLE].

DAN WETZEL: All right. Counselor Robinson? Opening statement, please.

CHARLES ROBINSON: Yeah, hey, I'm going to start off by saying that's not even the best team Jordan was ever on in his career. How about the '92 dream team? That's a far better team the '95-96 Bulls if we're really going to talk about it. I understand we're not going to talk about all-star teams here. But look, Chris comes out of the gate.

He's talking about personality, color, ability to win. I mean, look, the '85 Bears had it all. Personality? Are you kidding me? The greatest called shot of all time-- "The Super Bowl Shuffle"-- was recorded on December 3, the day after the only loss in Bears' 1985 history.

The day after the only loss, they get off the plane. Half the team goes and shoots a video calling their Super Bowl win and then goes on a two-month tirade to destroy the rest of the NFL. Jim McMahon, you kidding me? The headband-- the Pete Rozelle headband, Jim McMahon? "Sweetness" Walter Payton? Mike Singletary? You know, the eyeballs? I mean--

[LAUGHTER]

CHRIS HAYNES: --everything about the '85 Bears. Chicago will not be under represented. But there's no doubt in my mind. Go through Chicago, ask them, "Who is the greatest team you ever ?" if you were alive in 1985, that was the team.

DAN WETZEL: OK, I do feel like this is quite a Chicago debate. We should be at the Billy Goat Tavern, drinking--

[LAUGHTER]

--old-style drafts, something like that-- or getting a deep dish slice somewhere. We're going to kind of snake draft this. We'll go back to Counselor Robinson. What is the single star player of this team? I think we know where it's going to go with the Bulls. And how does he-- how does that player match up in the history of the game? Because we're talking about the greatest ever. So they at least got to be the greatest-- some of the greatest in the history of the game. Who was your star?

CHARLES ROBINSON: Well, look, everyone's going to say Walter Payton, "Sweetness," right? You're talking about the running back who led the league in rushing, set the all-time rushing mark. I mean, everybody's going to say Payton. But let's be real about this. I mean, the star-- and we're talking about the team here. The star here was the defense of the 1985 Chicago Bears.

Nobody has any question about that. The 46 defense-- Bill Walsh, one of the greatest coaches in NFL history, once said this is the single most revolutionary thing-- and I'm paraphrasing him here. He called it one of the single most revolutionary defensive adjustments to come up with-- the 46 defense-- in 20 years. Buddy Ryan-- the defensive coordinator, Mike Ditka, everything about that defense defined the '85 Chicago Bears.

Defense defines football. That's basically where this comes from. Looking at that '85 Chicago Bears team, if I'm going to pick a star, it's got to be that unit. And I know people are going to say one guy should be the star. No, that's not how football works. That's not how team arguments work. It is that unit-- that defensive, stalwart unit-- for the Chicago Bears that is the most starring piece of this team.

DAN WETZEL: Meh, all right. It's kind of-- kind of-- kind of cheated that-- but no I in team, right?

CHARLES ROBINSON: [LAUGHS]

DAN WETZEL: Chris, let me hear about your star. I want to hear about Bill Wennington.

CHRIS HAYNES: (LAUGHING) Yeah.

DAN WETZEL: I know he was the--

[LAUGHTER]

The floor is yours, Counselor.

CHRIS HAYNES: Dan, you-- first of all, you're doing a phenomenal job, you know, in your duties. Because you pointed out a clear cheat-- a cheating symptom of Charles [INAUDIBLE]. Now, what the question was star--

DAN WETZEL: Exactly.

CHRIS HAYNES: --not stars. (EMPHASIZING) Star.

DAN WETZEL: [LAUGHS]

CHRIS HAYNES: And if we have to debate-- he just mentioned at the top-- well, some people will say Walter Payton while other people would say-- well, there's not a clear star then. If some people are saying one thing and some are saying another.

[LAUGHTER]

There is a clear definitive star when you're talking about any Chicago Bulls team, let alone that '95-96. That's Michael Jordan.

You want to talk about star power, guys? Look, I'm not here to sit here, disrespect the Chicago Bears team The '85 Bears team, one of the greatest football teams of all time-- arguably. But you put those same individuals in downtown Chicago and you put the individuals that was on that '95 team in downtown Chicago, who are people going to recognize the most?

I guarantee you, they're going up to a lot of those Bulls players. I don't know if they'll recognize the '85 Bears. And I know the '85 Bears team, that was a long, long time ago. People-- and people's outer appearance change. But we don't forget the greats. We're going to remember what Tom Brady looks like at 40, 45, 55, 60.

DAN WETZEL: All right. I'll tell you what--

CHARLES ROBINSON: I would like to object. I want to object--

DAN WETZEL: All right, go ahead.

CHARLES ROBINSON: --instantly on this.

CHRIS HAYNES: Is that allowed?

CHARLES ROBINSON: This is not--

CHRIS HAYNES: Is abstaining allowed?

CHARLES ROBINSON: Listen--

DAN WETZEL: Sustained. Objections are allowed!

CHARLES ROBINSON: This is not--

DAN WETZEL: I've got a meat tenderizer here.

CHARLES ROBINSON: This is not about the greatest star. Absolutely-- look-- I will yield--

CHRIS HAYNES: That's the question!

CHARLES ROBINSON: --the point. I will yield the point that Michael Jordan is the greatest star. So what? He's the greatest star. That's great. Congratulations. Everybody recognizes Michael Jordan. That does not alone define the greatest team. OK? Michael Jordan-- lest we forget, Michael Jordan had to get through the Pistons. He needed Scottie Pippen. He always needed the third guy. He needed Horace Grant. He needed those extras to get where he got. That's what defines a team.

That's why this Chicago Bears team-- team-- is going to win this argument. We'll get into the finer granular points here. But if this is just about who gets recognized in downtown Chicago, hell, Brian Urlacher, with or without hair, gets recognized in downtown Chicago. OK? No one's arguing he's the greatest ever.

DAN WETZEL: Hard to miss the Fridge too. Hard to miss the Fridge. But I mean, Walter Payton, that's my guy. And he just gets brushed aside here. Walter Payton! Come on!

CHRIS HAYNES: Just brushed aside?

DAN WETZEL: Come on now.

CHRIS HAYNES: One of the best running backs of all time!

DAN WETZEL: Chris is doing a good job kissing up to the judge. Get on your game, Charles.

CHARLES ROBINSON: It's not about brushing any guys to the side. It's about sticking with this being a team award. It's about the team. Now let's get into the aspects that made these teams great. Go ahead. Let's move on.

DAN WETZEL: All right. All right.

CHARLES ROBINSON: Let's get a little deeper.

CHRIS HAYNES: The question was star.

DAN WETZEL: What is the aspect-- we're moving on to the next point. What is the underrated, forgotten-- we all know they're great. OK? One team, 72 victories, the other 15-1. They both won the titles. We got all that. This is-- obviously, these are the best teams. What is the forgotten, underrated part of this that might get lost, that aspect? Chris, you go first.

CHRIS HAYNES: Well, look, the guys' willingness to undervalue their games for the betterment of the team. Look, I spoke with BJ Armstrong, and he told me this. I don't even know if this is related. It might even be in the Jordan documentary. But he said there was a-- him and Jordan had an agreement that he'll let Jordan get his nine points each quarter so he can average out-- you know, get his average around 30.

So once he did that, then that's when he's had to pass. So get your nine points each quarter, then start passing, looking for your other teammates. The guys' willingness-- and I know there will be people saying this is Michael Jordan. But the guys' willingness to allow Jordan to have that freedom to do so for the betterment of the team and then make sure the other guys get their touches, that's just brilliance. That's brilliance.

'Cause Jordan could do whatever he wanted. He can do whatever he wanted on the court-- shoot as many shots as he wanted. But in order to make his teammates happy, he said, I'mma get my nine, then I'll start deferring. And that's how everybody ate. And so everybody had that agreement in place. That's what a team was so integral. They had good role players. Players that weren't stars, but they were role players. And that's why Scottie Pippin didn't get the bulk-- a lot of the praise that he probably should have gotten, at least 'till now.

DAN WETZEL: Charles.

CHARLES ROBINSON: Man, he starts every argument starting with one guy. Let's all go through Mike first to describe how good the team is. OK. Here's my underrated aspect of the 1985 Chicago Bears. There were six-- six-- NFL head coaches on that Chicago Bears team. You had Mike Ditka. You had the defensive coordinator, Buddy Ryan. Everybody knows about that.

But they had four players on the 1985 Chicago Bears who became head coaches. Ron Rivera, Jeff Fisher-- two guys who both coached in Super Bowls. Leslie Frazier, Mike Singletary. Now you say, well-- oh, so what? They had six head coaches. What does that really mean?

You know what that means? That means when you look at their greatness games-- and this is what defines a team, your greatness games. Let me give you their greatness games. They beat the Joe Gibbs Redskins, pretty damn good team in the 1980s, 45-10. They beat the Bill Walsh 49ers at the Stick-- Bill Walsh, the team that would win the Super Bowl the year before-- 26-10 in Candlestick.

Tom Landry and the Cowboys-- that was a playoff team-- 44-0 in Texas Stadium. Bill Parcells and the Giants, 21-0 in the playoffs. And John Robinson and the Rams, 24-0 in the playoffs. John Robinson is a College Football Hall of Famer.

I just named for hall of fame NFL head coaches and a College Football Hall of Fame coach. That's five greatness games that they housed the competition.

CHRIS HAYNES: Hold on! I object! I object!

DAN WETZEL: Sustained.

CHRIS HAYNES: Let me get mine in here. I object! We want to talk about-- you know, you named four Hall of Famers or whatever. I can name four or five Hall of Famers. And you can say I keep mentioned Michael Jordan? I can name four or five hall of Famers that Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson kept from getting championships. You want to talk about some of the most greatest players of all time?

Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley. Those are bona fide Hall of Famers. Even David Robertson before Tim Duncan came. Bona fide first time Hall of Famers, some of the top 20, 30 players of all time. Jordan kept them without one of these, Charles! Without one of these!

Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson kept them without one of these. So I don't want to hear about all those coaches, Hall of Famers. Jordan-- that era, that dynasty, and at the pinnacle, that 95-96 team, kept bona fide stars from reaching the glory land. That's greatness.

DAN WETZEL: All right. Couple of points of order. A lot of those guys got married three, four times, actually. So they got that wedding ring.

[LAUGHTER]

Two, we're talking about only this team. And so I'm gonna come up with one rebuttal for each of you. You will have to answer the week part of your case. And I know we are nitpicking here. But Charles is correct about the Bears' domination. They shut out two teams in the playoffs and then housed the Patriots. One touchdown was allowed the entire playoffs. Absolute ass kicking of the NFL.

Why did it take six games to beat the Seattle Supersonics in the finals for the Chicago Bulls? Why couldn't they have gotten that done in a sweep? They had them down 3-0. Did they let up the gas, and does that show a little bit of weakness?

CHRIS HAYNES: Hold on, Dan! Hold on! Why are we sitting here discrediting the Seattle Supersonics? Well, come on now! One of the greatest point guards of all time! Shawn Kemp, one of the best high flyers this game has always seen! George Karl innovated the offense in the NBA, had everybody running all around, the shooting the 3's! You know, forgetting post-up, we're shooting 3's! We're kicking out and running!

Why are we discrediting that team? That is a good team. If it weren't for Jordan, Gary Payton and them would have a championship right now. Look, yes, they probably let off the gas. It's human nature. But when it was all said and done, the team over there in the Windy City, they knew they had one bad guy, number 23, that was not going to let his team falter. And they didn't.

So why are we bringing that up? Why are we bringing that up, Dan?

DAN WETZEL: I gotta come up with something, man. What are you-- I gotta have a job here too! I need to get paid! Man, we're going into recession.

All right. Charles, Jim McMahon is the quarterback. Quarterback's the single most important position on the field. OK? Jim McMahon is the quarterback of the team. 1985, these are his stats. 56.9% completion rating, 2,392 yards, 15 TDs, and 11 interceptions.

CHRIS HAYNES: Wow! Wow!

DAN WETZEL: How can you be the greatest team of all time if at the most important position, you got that? Headbands aside, and I know you got Walter, but what is that?

CHARLES ROBINSON: Once again, this is about the team. This is where the NFL and the NBA part company. OK? You can have your three star tandem and win an NBA championship. As a matter of fact, Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman may have been the forerunners of the Holy Trinity to win a championship. You cannot do that in the NFL. You have to assemble the best team.

Look at the New England Patriots. They shuffle guys in. They shuffle guys out. This is how you win titles as a team. You can't just collect three great players and suddenly win a game.

I keep going back to the same thing with the Chicago Bears. This is all about a defense that, as Dan said, absolutely destroyed, dominated. Went out-- they record the Super Bowl Shuffle a day after their only loss of the season-- call their shot, and then rip the league apart for two months. They go to the playoffs, and they outscore their three opponents 91-10.

And not only was it only one touchdown. That one touchdown came in the fourth quarter of a game-- in the Super Bowl-- that they were already leading 44-3! So not only did you dominate, you dominated the most important part of the game, scoring, and didn't let anybody do anything. They didn't get to the end zone until the beginning of the fourth quarter of that playoff run.

Give me a break. It's the defense. Who cares about the quarterback? If you can win with the defense, that proves you are one of the greatest ever.

CHRIS HAYNES: But that also proves, Dan, that your team is one-sided. Correct? You won with your defense. I mean, is that a complete team? Or is one side-- is one side of the team doing the job?

You talk about the Chicago Bulls, you had-- I'm not even gonna mention his name. But we had offensive players who dominated. We have defensive players who dominated. We have three of the greatest of all time defenders. And then two of those three can also put that ball in the basket.

I don't want to-- don't give these one-sided arguments, Charles. Stop it! You basically telling me, and admitted, that you had the Trent Dilfer QB of the '85 Bears! That's basically what you told me! That's what you telling me! But that's not a team!

CHARLES ROBINSON: Uh-uh. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait.

CHRIS HAYNES: And I love from Florida State.

CHARLES ROBINSON: No, no, no, no, no. Let me--

CHRIS HAYNES: Trent Dilfer from Florida State. I love Trent Dilfer! No disrespect.

CHARLES ROBINSON: If we're gonna-- OK, so we're gonna talk about that. All right, well, let's see. You took one player off the Bulls, and Hakeem Olajuwon put on two rings. And not only that, your best player, he quit. He quit for two years.

DAN WETZEL: All right. Not yet, though. Not yet.

CHRIS HAYNES: Not yet!

CHARLES ROBINSON: Oh, oh, oh, oh. Hey-- not yet. You know. I'm not giving him credit for being a quitter.

DAN WETZEL: I'm not giving him credit for beating Charles Barkley because they didn't beat him in that year. I'm not-- he didn't quit yet. He did quit, though.

All right, I am rendering my ruling.

[LAUGHTER]

CHARLES ROBINSON: We need some better props.

DAN WETZEL: One day, we're gonna get a real-- we're gonna get a real hammer here. But right now, it's a meat tenderizer.

Compelling arguments from both you, gentlemen. I don't know how to pick, except I'm going to do this. I will never forgive Mike Ditka for running Fridge Perry for the touchdown in the Super Bowl, and getting caught up in the hype, and denying my man, Walter Payton, Columbia, Mississippi, from scoring a touchdown. And because of that--

CHARLES ROBINSON: I'm getting robbed.

DAN WETZEL: --I will forever punish the Chicago Bears. So both made compelling arguments, but I'm going with the Bulls. Phil Jackson never would have done that. Bulls are the greatest team of all time. RIP Walter Payton, my man.

CHRIS HAYNES: Yeah! [LAUGHS] 1-0, baby!

DAN WETZEL: Court--

CHRIS HAYNES: 1-0!

DAN WETZEL: Court is out of session! Tune in next time for the "Boxed In." Gets even better.

[MUSIC PLAYING]