‘Outlander’ Postmortem: Graham McTavish on Dougal and Jamie’s Changing Dynamic

Warning: This postmortem contains spoilers for the “Vengeance Is Mine” episode of Outlander, which aired June 18.

The first half of season 2 was rough for Dougal diehards. While Clamie joined French high society in an effort to change history and save the Highlander way of life, the war chief of Clan MacKenzie was left to hold down the fort back in Scotland. But as the rebellion has ramped up, so too has quality Graham McTavish screen time. When he isn’t grasping for a return to his glory days in change of the soldiers or working Claire’s last nerve, he’s pulling off heroics on horseback and putting his foot in his mouth in front of the prince with his Scottish bros before foes mentality.

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And McTavish, who called Friday from New Zealand where he is currently filming an indie called The Stolen, promises there are more juicy bits to come as the doomed freedom fighters march toward the battle on Culloden Moor. He also chatted at length about his character and Jamie’s changing dynamic, getting physical and topless, Dougal’s motivations and morals and how they shape who he is and how he acts, and what went wrong with the first attempt to capture the Highland charge on camera.

It’s so cool to get a call from the future. So on theme.
Yes, in true Outlander fashion, I have traveled in time and am calling you from the future. I can tell you it is very similar to what you are experiencing at the moment where you are. No massive changes to report from Saturday. The world is still here.

Given Dougal was in Scotland while Jamie and Claire tried to alter the future in France, viewers had to wait many weeks before they got their Graham McTavish fix. Did it feel like you guys picked up right where you left off?
Yeah definitely. There have been so many great scenes and challenges since everyone returned from to Scotland. The last few episodes have been action-packed. But the key change for Dougal is that these characters come back from this extraordinary experience in France, which he has been no part of, and he expects for things to just carry on from where they left off. It is almost like no time has passed as far as Dougal is concerned. He has just been waiting, chomping at the bit to get started on the rebellion.

And therein lies the problem. He expects Jamie and Claire to return as the same people but Jamie has buddied up to the Prince and they have both experienced so many things that have changed who they are and it seems this power shift creates a lot of tension between him and Jamie especially.
Jamie arrives and Dougal fully expects him to fall in line and off we go. ”Here we are. We’re ready to fight, et cetera, et cetera.” But then he realizes that something fundamental has changed in Jamie, which is that Jamie has grown into a real leader, and that throws everything off. Their dynamic is totally changed and it will never go back to the way it was. That contributes so much to the good meaty scenes I have gotten to take part in this season. They are a result of the change in that dynamic. On the one hand, he is very proud and pleased that Jamie is joining the rebellion, but at the same time he is a little bit put out that he is not the one leading the charge and calling the shots anymore. It’s classic Dougal really, but amplified by 10. He has good intentions and wants to do these things for the right reasons and because he believes in the cause, but on the other hand he can’t help but let his ego get in the way.

He attempted to correct the course in his favor by manipulating Claire once again, but she wasn’t having any of that and instead called him out on his BS.
I loved that scene. She is really letting rip. She lets him know how she really feels and that is so relatable if you have ever had that moment where someone had pushed you too far and you aren’t capable of taking it anymore. She just turned around and let him have it. But I loved also the way that the writing flips it at that point and lets him make his point. Yes I may be a narcissist. I may be all of those you just said, but the one thing you have forgotten is that more than anything I am this. I am proudly Scottish. That is what guides Dougal through all of his dealings with anybody — how can they help me achieve what I really want which is restoring the Stuart monarchy. That’s it. There are the other things like the sexual intrigues. He is obviously keen on Claire and she doesn’t feel that way toward him and he has his ambitions with the clan, but above everything else the rebellion and the restoration is his guiding star that he follows above everything else.

I think it helped to remind people that he is not so easily dismissed as a bad guy.
I know there are people who see him as a villain and I can’t see him that way. Really Dougal is very human. He is neither perfect’ nor a monster. He is well-intentioned and has a strong moral compass, but there are flaws in his personality that trip him up like his vanity, his ego. He can’t help but try to manipulate people for his own gain. Those are flaws in his character but they don’t define him. That complexity is what makes any character interesting to play and hopefully to watch. They are not just a villain or a hero. They are shades of perfect and imperfect… Even Claire, our heroine, has blood on her hands. The dilemmas that all of these characters face are complicated and tragic and push them to the edge. It is a gray area. There is more of that to come. They might find themselves on different sides of an issue or a plan before the season is through.

The last several episodes have also been much more physical with the fighting, horseback riding, Highland charging, wrestling in the mud. Has that been a part of this series that you have enjoyed?
Love that. Me and Sam, Duncan, Grant, and Stephen were just dying to get into that stuff. It was fun. What’s not to enjoy? You are dressed up in great outfits and allowed to run around wild and just be kids. I remember talking to the director when we were doing the battle at Prestonpans and he asked, “How do you not hurt each other?” I said, “It is exactly the same as when you were a child. You had your stick and your friend had his stick and you’d attack each other but you wouldn’t hurt each other. It was just play.” That’s exactly what we were doing. It was cold a couple of times. They made the Highland charge the last thing they shot on a very cold day. We had to strip half naked on the top of the hill and run down over and over again. They had a camera on a quad bike and we had to chase the bike. The first time we did it the guy driving was a little overenthusiastic with his speed. We were really sprinting to try and keep up with it so it took some time to get it right.

When you realize you are going to have to do the charge without your shirt on, do you instantly start eating only almonds and doing sit-ups or do you just use what you are working with already? How does one prepare?
I’ll tell you what you do, you get in a good warm-up. You get in a good stretch because in those situations is where you will pull a hamstring. That’s where you can really get hurt because your body is so cold. When you get to my age, you can’t just suddenly turn on a 100-yard sprint without warming up. That’s asking for a tear or sprain. So we did plenty of that. There was lots of hilarious sights of men half naked and covered in mud leaping around and trying to get themselves warm. Not very Highland of us. I don’t imagine the actual Highlanders did a group aerobics class before Culloden. I don’t see Charlie leading them in some sort of Jane Fonda-inspired workout. Maybe if they had, history would have turned out differently.

You have a lengthy résumé and have gotten to do some very cool stuff including Creed, The Hobbit films and your current gig on Preacher. Where does Outlander rate?
Hugely. It was enormously enjoyable for so many reasons; not just for being able to play a truly interesting complex character. From an acting point of view, that is a great gift. But I also got to do it in Scotland. Being back in my home with my family, who came with me, and experiencing Scotland together was a gift. And the people were amazing. Spending time with people who I had grown up with in theater in Scotland who came in to do guest roles was great. As a working experience, it was hugely helped by the other cast members. Sam, Cait, Stephen, Grant, and Gary especially will be friends for the rest of my life I imagine. We see each other on a reasonably regular basis, time zones permitting. That building of great friendships, forging links, is what I hope to take away from any job. That was the case on The Hobbit and I really hope that happens on Preacher next.

Outlander airs Saturdays at 9 p.m. on Starz.