Where are Norfolk’s bus stops? The answer could cost close to $500, school division says

After learning that parents had heard gunfire near bus stops in the Calvert Square area, a volunteer group decided to start walking elementary-school kids home after they got off the bus. But first they needed to know where to go.

Carl Poole, the Norfolk campaign coordinator for New Virginia Majority, asked the Norfolk Public Schools division for the bus schedule and the location of the bus stops.

He was told that it could cost up to $489 for that information.

Poole was shocked. He asked that the fees be waived because he believed the information would help the community, but under Virginia’s Freedom of Information Act, public bodies such as Norfolk Public Schools can charge for the time and materials it takes to fulfill a request.

“It’s not like what we’re doing is harmful,” he said.

Poole shared emails between him and the division’s Freedom of Information Act officer . The “good-faith estimate” included eight hours of work — at $42.42 per hour — to gather the information and two reams of paper at 15 cents per page, which totaled $150 to print.

If Poole did not want physical copies — he could accept the information through email — the estimate would drop to $339 or on a flash drive for roughly $344.

These estimates are just the deposits, according to the FOIA office in those emails. It would be possible the actual costs could go up, and those fees would be credited toward the final total.

He said he believes the costs are “something of an attempt to discourage” people from making a FOIA request, and since the division has been using this information since the start of the year, it should be readily available and free.

Executive Director of the Virginia Coalition for Open Government Megan Rhyne said many people ask that the fees be waived because the information sought is in the public’s interest. The line is in templates people frequently use when writing their requests, but she said it is a “throwaway phrase” because Virginia does not have any fee waivers.

“There’s already discretion built into the fees in that they don’t have to charge any fees,” Rhyne said. “But this notion that there’s somehow a public interest fee waiver is not supported by the statute.”

Michelle Washington, a spokesperson for the school division, wrote in a statement that the fees had been calculated “under the terms of FOIA law,” which states that public bodies are able to make charges “not to exceed its actual cost incurred in accessing, duplicating, supplying, or searching for the requested efforts.” Under the law, public bodies like the Norfolk school division have to make “all reasonable efforts” to keep the costs as low as possible.

In response to Poole’s request for records “that describe, illustrate and/or outline (i.e. maps, schedules, timetables) NPS bussing of kindergarten through 12(th)-grade students for the 2022-2023 school year,” the school system’s FOIA officer stated that having asked the “responsible department” about the time needed to gather this information, it was estimated that it would take eight hours, which makes up the bulk of the fees.

Washington stated the transportation division is responsible keeping records of the bus stops and schedules. These are contained by a bus routing management system called Versatrans. She explained that to gather the bus schedules with the pick up and drop off locations, whoever is gathering the information must extract the data for “each individual bus route and each individual stop.”

She also said any “map” that detailed that information would “resemble an outline of the City of Norfolk filled in with a solid color, as our transportation division used nearly every street in the city in every neighborhood in the city to transport students safely to and from school.” She added that there would also need to be time for the FOIA staff to review the responding documents to ensure no protected student information is included.

Under Virginia’s FOIA law, public bodies are able to charge for the time it takes to gather documents to fulfill a request, though Rhyne said the state is one of just nine that does not put a limit on those charges.

Because of this, Rhyne recommends the public “not ask for the moon” when making a FOIA request.

“Not saying that’s a great situation,” Rhyne said. “That’s what the reality is.”

Parents and guardians are able to access their students’ bus stop information on the school’s website by typing in their student ID and password. As this information is not publicly available, Poole and other volunteers have found some of the bus stops by talking to families in the area, but the organization hopes to expand to other parts of Norfolk.

As of Thursday morning, Poole and New Virginia Majority had not paid the fees and have not received the requested bus schedule. Washington said in a statement they are waiting for Poole’s response before moving forward.

Poole has spoken at school board and city council meetings to try to get the fees waived with mixed response.

After speaking at the Nov. 16 school board meeting, Poole said an administrator approached him that night and provided the staggered release schedule in a single document, a part of Poole’s request. Poole said that the administrator also said that Poole would be contacted the following day about getting the rest of what he had requested.

Poole said he had not heard back.

On Tuesday, he spoke at the city council meeting. Councilman Thomas Smigiel, who is a principal at Granby High School, said the bus stops were not public information due to safety concerns, though the division had once published that information. He also recommended that Poole go through the volunteer application process to undergo a background check. Then, he might be able to access the bus schedule.

Washington stated that Norfolk Public Schools was not aware of any exemptions that might apply to the bus schedule and bus stops that would make them not public information.

Poole said he and New Virginia Majority still hope to get the bus stop and schedule to support their initiative to “take back the bus stop.” He added he hopes the group can work with the school division and city to help keep the kids safe. Since the group started at the beginning of November, Poole said there have not been any reported incidents in the area.

“It’s working,” Poole said at the city council meeting. “At least there’s a good sign that it’s working, so we need to take it over to the next neighborhood.”

Kelsey Kendall, kelsey.kendall@virginiamedia.com