Covid Inquiry: Sue Gray says devolved nations should have more power in Westminster
The devolved nations should be given more power at Westminster, Sue Gray has said.
Sir Keir Starmer’s chief of staff told the Covid Inquiry in Northern Ireland on Thursday that Stormont, Holyrood and the Senedd should be handed more of a say in central Government decision-making.
“I think there would be real benefit in Northern Ireland, and in fact the other devolved governments in Scotland and Wales, being involved in discussions that take place in Westminster from a very early stage,” she told the Covid Inquiry.
“Sometimes unfortunately they are not brought in at the earliest stages of development and conversations happen a bit further down the road.
“And I think that’s quite difficult for devolved governments sometimes who will not have the [same] capacity and resources as the Westminster government to be involved.”
12:52 PM BST
Today’s live blog has now closed
Thanks for following our live coverage. Here are the key developments from the day:
Sue Gray gave evidence to the Covid inquiry today because she was seconded to the devolved administration between 2018 and 2021, serving as permanent secretary at the department of finance.
Ms Gray began by saying Westminster and Northern Ireland were “quite different”.
She admitted that Northern Ireland was not as strong as Westminster in dealing with leaks and that a ‘silo’ culture prevails in the nation’s civil service
Despite being scheduled to give evidence until 1pm, Ms Gray concluded her statement shortly before 11am.
In the closing remarks that followed, Neasa Murnaghan KC, representing Northern Ireland’s department of health, told the inquiry that the administration’s Covid response should have been different
12:37 PM BST
Inquiry concludes in Northern Ireland
The inquiry’s proceedings in Northern Ireland have now concluded.
“That now completes our hearings in Belfast for Module 2c: Core Decision Making and Political Governance in Northern Ireland,” said Baroness Hallett, the inquiry chairman.
“I hope that we have covered the most important issues under that heading thoroughly and rigorously.”
12:19 PM BST
Health department admits response should have been different
Neasa Murnaghan KC, representing Northern Ireland’s department of health, has told the inquiry that the administration’s Covid response should have been different.
“This has been a necessary but also a difficult and illuminating process,” she said.
“It may in these circumstances be tempting to recall the words of the late Queen, albeit in a somewhat different context, at an Irish state banquet in 2011, when she said that ‘with the benefit of hindsight there are things that we wish would have been done differently or indeed not at all’.
“In an ideal world, my lady, Northern Ireland’s health and social care system would have been less fragile at the beginning of 2020, its government and political system would have been more stable, ministers would have had time to bed into their respective departments, and its government-wide civil contingency system would have been in a better place.”
12:00 PM BST
Commissioner for Older People delivering closing remarks
The next closing submission is from Monye Anyadike-Danes KC on behalf of Core Participant: Commissioner for Older People for Northern Ireland (COPNI).
— UK Covid-19 Inquiry (@covidinquiryuk) May 16, 2024
11:50 AM BST
Gray praises Lib Dem-Tory coalition
Sue Gray, speaking at the inquiry earlier, praised David Cameron and Nick Clegg for “great leadership” during the Conservative and Lib Dem coalition between 2010 and 2015.
Then a civil servant in the Cabinet Office, Ms Gray said when ministers from the different parties disagreed, there was a set process on how to deal with it.
It allowed Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg to express their differing views in Parliament.
“I think they demonstrated great leadership in how they handled those issues, it didn’t break down in trust because actually it was a very honest and open and frank process,” she said.
11:43 AM BST
Gray: ‘People who want to leak will invariably find a way to do it’
Sue Gray, who gave evidence at the inquiry earlier this morning, said people who want to leak will invariably find a way to do it.
However, she said certain processes could be used, such as banning phones from confidential ministerial meetings, to limit the opportunities to leak. She said establishing a culture where leaking is not tolerated was also important. She said that culture should be set by the parties’ leadership, including their ministers.
The inquiry has heard how discussions at several high-pressured executive meetings during the pandemic were effectively live-tweeted by journalists who were being leaked the information in real time.
Ms Gray was asked what the reaction would be if something similar unfolded at a Cabinet meeting in London.
“I think that would be a terrible thing and it would be seen for that,” she said.
11:27 AM BST
Inquiry takes a break
The inquiry has now taken a break and will return at 11.40am.
11:21 AM BST
Northern Ireland ‘overlooked the disabled during Covid’
Northern Ireland “overlooked” disabled people during the pandemic, the inquiry has heard.
Danny Friedman KC, representing Disability Action Northern Ireland, said: “DPOs [disabled people’s organisations] take issue with the feature of pandemic policy, however well intentioned, which focused on the vulnerable without consulting disabled people because in practice it enabled disabled people to be lost even when decision makers believed they were being seen.
“That is a societal problem beyond Northern Ireland. Normal personhood is assumed to be autonomous, independent and self-sufficient. Disabled people are treated as other, charitable objects and recipients of a narrow concept of care.
“This notion of vulnerability is prone to be highly transactional, hence in [the] pandemic crisis all of the four nation governments including this one focused on getting benefits paid, setting up telephone lines, sending letters to people who were on lists and creating hit and miss food parcel distribution.”
11:06 AM BST
Northern Ireland’s Covid response ‘littered by failings’
Brenda Campbell KC, representing Northern Ireland Covid-19 Bereaved Families For Justice, has said the devolved administration’s response to the pandemic was “littered with oversights, omissions and failings”.
Giving a closing submission to the inquiry, Ms Campbell listed a litany of faults in the response.
She said: “The attendance of ministers at the funeral of [convicted IRA volunteer] Bobby Storey. The consequence of that attendance on public messaging and public confidence. Delays in decision making in autumn 2020 unquestionably leading to that fatal spike in January 2021.
“The deliberate, egregious and abusive use of the cross-community vote. The leaks. The spins. The sectarianism. The political sniping. The wiping of phones and other devices. The corrosive, mean and hostile WhatsApp chats.
“Unfortunately I could go on. At every turn the evidence has been devastating.”
10:51 AM BST
Gray concludes her evidence
Sue Gray, who was scheduled to give evidence from 10am to 1pm, has now concluded giving her evidence to the inquiry.
It will now move on to closing submissions from lawyers representing bereaved families of Covid victims.
10:35 AM BST
Civil service has ‘silo’ culture, Gray admits
Sue Gray has admitted that there is a “silo” culture in Northern Ireland’s civil service that prevents different departments working together.
Nick Scott, counsel to the inquiry, asked: “Is it a cultural thing within the civil service that there seems to be this tendency to work in silos in Northern Ireland departments?”
Ms Gray replied: “I think there is a culture issue about working silos. I wouldn’t say it’s just for Northern Ireland. There is also an element of silo working in the UK civil service.”
Asked if it was more pronounced in Northern Ireland than Whitehall, she responded: “Yes.”
10:28 AM BST
Northern Ireland not as strong as Westminster in dealing with leaks, says Gray
Northern Ireland’s devolved administration is not as strong as the national government at dealing with leaks, Sue Gray has said.
Questioned about differences between the two in their approaches to leaks, Sir Keir Starmer’s chief of staff said: “The other issue in UK government is that there is an an independent adviser on ministers’ interests, it’s called ministers’ interests, but that person will often be asked to do an independent investigation if there is an allegation of a breach of the ministerial code.
“And there isn’t anything like that here.”
10:18 AM BST
Welcome to our live coverage
We’re bringing you the latest news as Sue Gray is giving evidence to the Covid Inquiry.
