Michael Gove: It’s not right that Jews fear going into central London
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When Michael Gove was mobbed by a hostile crowd of pro-Palestinian protesters at London’s Victoria station, some of his fiercest political opponents were among to condemn the scene in the strongest possible terms.
But the intimidation faced by Mr Gove is not what is concerning the Communities Secretary today.
“If you’re a politician, and particularly if you have been around for a while, you will be used to people saying and doing disagreeable things,” he says. “What I worry about is that if you’re a 17-year-old Jewish teenager, you think ‘I can’t go into London, in my own city’.”
Mr Gove is referring to concerns expressed by some Jews about venturing into central London on Saturdays due to the anti-Semitic nature of some material brandished and chanted by some protesters. Those who have expressed such fears include Lord Wolfson, the former justice minister, who said his daughter had been left “wondering whether it was safe to go on the Tube”. At the same time, recorded incidents of anti-Semitism have soared across the country since the start of the Israel-Hamas conflict.
Mr Gove says: “People have a right to march, but it is not a defensible situation when you have, not just a mood created, but evidence of events and actions, that mean that people can’t move freely about their own city.
“Victoria station, anyone should be able to use it any time of night or day and feel safe. And the fact that friends of mine feel that they can’t, the fact that people like David Wolfson have said in the House of Lords that his daughter can’t venture into London on Saturdays, that’s terrible.”
New official definition of extremism
Mr Gove, 56, is sitting on a sofa in the corner of his office in the building that the Levelling Up and Communities department shares with the Home Office. It is 5.30pm on Friday and the vast majority of desks in the building appear unoccupied. In marked contrast is the hive of activity in front of Mr Gove’s office as the last of the Cabinet minister’s papers are packed into his overflowing ministerial red box.
This week, Mr Gove will announce details of a new official definition of extremism, designed to ensure that Whitehall cuts ties with people who are “setting out to subvert democracy and who want to deny other people fundamental rights”. The new definition redraws a version dating from 2011, which Mr Gove describes as “way too broad” and now “more honoured in the breach than the observance”.
The definition is intended to be used across Whitehall to indication the individuals and groups that should be beyond the pale when it comes to official dealings with the Government. It will also form a new basis for the Prevent counter-extremism programme which, under the existing regime, was criticised after it emerged that internal analysis listed Jacob Rees-Mogg as being among figures “associated with far-Right sympathetic audiences, and Brexit”.
“For all state institutions,” says Mr Gove, “this definition and a set of engagement principles should act as a guide, so that you can conduct due diligence. We’ve established a centre of excellence with support from outside academics here in the department in order to provide people with the information that they need to draw distinction.
“So when someone presents themselves as the person who can help you build bridges, but they come from a tradition or an organisation or institutions with these links, then the due diligence work, the definition will mean that it is it will be far easier to say, ‘no, you present yourself in this way, but you’re wholly unsuitable to be advising us on on hate crime.’”
‘Free speech has to be protected’
Mr Gove fears that some people with extremist outlooks have used links to state institutions “both to gain legitimacy, but also to influence the way in which we operate when it comes to upholding the law without fear or favour”.
There have been claims that a new definition risks being used, for example, by trans activists to try to label campaigners for women’s rights as extremists. Mr Gove says the Government will be clear that gender-critical campaigners will not fall foul of the definition, and that neither will devout Muslims, Christians and Jews, if their outlook does not extend to “a political ideology that is anti-democratic”.
“What we want to do is to be more precise, and to make it clear that, for example, if you’re a gender-critical feminist, you’re not an extremist. If you’re a Bible-believing Christian, you’re not an extremist. If you’re Haredi or ultra-orthodox in the Jewish community, you’re not an extremist and, indeed, if you are a pious Muslim with traditional beliefs, you’re not an extremist.
“It’s only extremism if you translate that into a political ideology that is anti-democratic. Private belief should be cherished. Free speech has to be protected. But there are people who are operating deliberately to undermine our democracy and ... this space and the exploitation of that space by extremists has only grown.”
Mr Gove is at pains to draw a distinction between Muslims and Islamists. “Islamism is a precise ideology,” he says, whose adherents can be identified partly if they are followers of the teachings of individuals such as Hassan al-Banna and Sayyid Qutb, former leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Such figures “are the inspiration for Islamism in the same way as we know that Marx, Engels and Lenin were the inspiration for communism. We can determine precisely what Islamism is: an ideology that seeks to set Muslims apart from the rest of society and, indeed, to divide Muslims themselves. It’s an ideology that believes in the application of Sharia law, that believes in the creation ultimately of an Islamic state, and we know that there are Islamist organisations like the Muslim Brotherhood – Hamas is its Palestinian branch – that operate globally and then have groups here.”
‘Now, ideas can be disseminated and meme-ified’
Shortly after entering the Commons in 2005, Mr Gove, a former journalist, published Celsius 7/7, a book examining the origins of Islamist terrorism. During his time as education secretary in the Coalition government, between 2010 and 2014, he led the government response to the alleged “Trojan Horse” plot by hardline Islamists to take over state schools in Birmingham. At the time, David Cameron, then prime minister, also commissioned a major review into the Muslim Brotherhood, including its reach into the UK.
But, a decade on, the influence of Islamists appears to have ballooned in Britain and the same Conservative government that introduced the 2011 definition of extremism is stating that it needs revision, in order to cut ties that have formed between Whitehall and extremists during the Tories’ time in office. The Charity Commission is investigating scores of groups alleged to have hosted extremist speakers or disseminated extremist material in recent months.
Did the Conservatives take their eye off the ball?
“I don’t think so,” says Mr Gove. “The thing is that it is often the case that you see a rise in extremist activity when there are big foreign policy events. So the Bosnian War was a radicalising moment, the Iraq war was a radicalising moment, as was 9/11. And events in the Middle East have been exploited to create division.
“The other thing is the more sophisticated use of social media. Ideas that would once have relied on being present in a hall or getting a copy of Sayyid Qutb’s Milestones in your hands. Now, ideas can be disseminated, and not just complex ideas, they can be meme-ified and shared in a way that drives this.”
Independent adviser on anti-Muslim hatred to be introduced
Mr Gove believes the primary threats from extremism are twofold: Islamists and the extreme Right, which is stoking anti-Muslim hate. The two, he believes, have elements in common and are creating a “particularly toxic situation at the moment”.
“The Islamist narrative is, ‘you’re not British. The West doesn’t value Muslim lives ... your principal identity is as Muslim, your principal loyalty is to the Ummah [Muslim community] and it’s only through the creation of an Islamic state that you will get the dignity you deserve.
“Similarly, the Nazi or the extreme Right-wing view is ‘you are poor and white, you are being overlooked and exploited, there are shadowy figures – brackets, Jewish – manipulating this country and who are responsible for your downtrodden state, you need to fight back. And these ideologies capture the minds of people who may be vulnerable.”
This week, Mr Gove is due to unveil a new independent adviser on anti-Muslim hatred, amid concerns about rising incidents involving anti-Muslim hate. Fiyaz Mughal, a critic of extremism and a campaigner for closer links between Muslim and Jewish communities, is a leading contender for the post.
Mr Gove says he uses the term “anti-Muslim hatred” over “Islamophobia”, an approach he suggests has now been adopted by the Government. The broader description of “Islamophobia”, he says, risks a “chilling effect on free speech when people are debating the pros and cons of Islam as a religion.”
He adds: “I’m a Christian, I don’t just have respect for, but think that Islam is a force for good, but it’s also the case that it is perfectly legitimate, obviously, to criticise my belief system and to criticise Islam as a belief system.
“If people use it [the term Islamophobia], that’s fine. I think I know what they mean. But I prefer to be precise.”
