'Mallrats' turns 25: The long journey from box office bomb to cult classic
When it was released in 1995, "Mallrats" was a box office bomb and its wunderkind director/writer Kevin Smith was anxious about his future in film. At first, Smith publicly trashed his sophomore effort, only to realize that over the years, "Mallrats" had developed a rabid fanbase thanks to its success on DVD. Smith told Yahoo Entertainment how he considered a lot of young Hollywood talent at the time for various roles, including Reese Witherspoon, Alyssa Milano, Amanda Peet, and more. He also explains getting to know a young Ben Affleck - who's been a recurring presence in much of Smith's work - and how the actor broke one of Smith's biggest rules ("stick to the script"), only to have his ad-lib land in the final cut.
Video Transcript
- What's he doing?
- Oh, [BLEEP] head, here, watched "Empire" and "Jedi" last week, and ever since he's been trying to do the Jedi mind trick.
KEVIN SMITH: You gotta remember, like, when it came out, nobody liked this movie. And I was told, you're bad. And it flopped, and my career was over. So the fact that 25 years later, people still care about it, like, means everything. But the whole game was over pretty quickly. And then I spent years distancing myself from "Mallrats" It became my whipping boy joke. So there was a year-- eh, let's say, six months-- where things were very dark. You know, my life is-- I've never been truly depressed, or had true darkness.
But that was definitely, in my career, a dark moment. Especially uncertain because I was like, well, what happens in this instance. Do I get to do this again? Like, it's not like universal was like, hey man, so what do you want to do next. Like, the only conversations we'd had were about "Mallrats 2," and that died the moment "Mallrats" died. So at that point, nobody was knocking on my door and stuff. And then I would have people-- enough people, not just-- didn't happen once-- but enough that this became a stereotype. People would be like, that movie didn't flop. I own it on DVD. The people who were like, I am like Brodie.
Like, we didn't get them at the box office, But we got them at home. And then slowly, over time, it became kind of what it is. Then we got this incredibly lucky break with the explosion of the Marvel cinematic universe because suddenly, a Stan Lee cameo became de rigueur for every one of those movies that made almost $0.5 million to $1 billion. And anyone who had movie trivia was like, oh, he was in "Mallrats," like, Stan Lee was in-- he did that cameo thing in "Mallrats." and Brodie was a character who, in 1995, was fringe. 2020, Brodie is the internet.
- Somebody call your name?
- Look, I have to go to the bathroom. Wait here, OK?
- Hey, anything for you, babe. It's your day.
- Thanks
KEVIN SMITH: We had this pizza party thing that Don Phillips, he set up. I guess they did it on "Dazed and Confused" as well. And the idea is, you bring in multiple actors for each part. So we'd been looking forward to Reese, but it never went past the meet and greet. Again, I'm 24 at this point, almost 25. So Reese Witherspoon like, is talking about "Clerks." And she goes, oh, I was also in a convenience store movie, "S.F.W." It's the same thing. That really [BLEEP] turned me off where I was like, "S.F.W." is not--
KEVIN POLOWY: That was the deal-breaker?
KEVIN SMITH: --that's not "Clerks." Like, what? Like, you know-- and that was kind of the deal breaker for us. That wasn't the only deal-breaker, but that was a big one. Alyssa Milano, I remember, Don Phillips was like, we're bringing in Alyssa Milano. And me and Mosier were like, what? From "Who's the Boss?" No way, man. And she was the exact opposite. She was, like, our favorite person that came in for the meet and greets. Like, she was interesting, funny, smart. Like, just a person, like, just like Jason Lee, where you're like, I'd [BLEEP] hang out with this person.
Amanda Peet was at the pizza party. And I remember Amanda Peet was really mad because she was in New York. We cast her out in New York. And they brought her out-- you know, the pizza party was in Los Angeles. So when she got out there, Shannon was the other Renee. So it was down to Amanda Peet and Shannen Doherty. I guess, at the end of the pizza party, if I remember correctly, Amanda felt that it had been a waste of her time because she was only a stalking horse for Shannen Doherty.
- What, you want to say something?
- Yeah, about a million things! But I can't express myself monosyllabically enough for you to understand them all.
KEVIN SMITH: Jim Jacks, you know, our producer, comes in to me and Scott and he goes, Ben Affleck's coming in today. And we were like, who's that? And he's like, he's O'Bannion in "Dazed and Confused." I was like, oh, [BLEEP], the asshole with the paddle and [BLEEP] . He came in, of course, reading for TS. And I was like, I don't think he's TS, but I like him. I think he could be, like, Shannon Hamilton.
Ben, like, right away was just like, oh man, I gotta play the bully. So when he came in for the audition, he was vocally [BLEEP] on his part. Not in a really hardcore, like, [BLEEP] your movie way, but he's like, you know, man, I just want to do good work in this business. But anyone sees me as, like, a bully. And now I'm a guy who just wants to have butt sex.
And one of his biggest frustrations was, you know, I was real tight about the script. Like, back then I was like, you do every word that's written in the script. Nobody [BLEEP] ad libs. I'm the writer, and the writer is king, and so the script is the bible. But he's got an ad lib that makes it, like, into the movie, which is him going-- when he gets arrested at the end-- when Jason Lee goes, that girl's only 15. And Ben goes--
- 15? Thought she was 36.
KEVIN SMITH: Not a line in the script at all. And then he follows it up with, come on guys, tell me you wouldn't of popped her. And that was also not in the [BLEEP] script. So it was such a funny line, that even me, as staunchly like, my words or nothing, was able to be like, I like this guy. That's how he-- why I wound up writing "Chasing Amy" for him. Because I was just like, he's so [BLEEP] good, and he's funny.
- [BLEEP].
KEVIN SMITH: One of the changing room gags was you see Gwen getting changed, and then you go through the wall and you see Jay and Silent Bob watching. And Silent Bob is jerking off. You don't see it below frame. And then, like, all of a sudden, like, it hits the moment of truth. And you see his O face. And you see something jet up super fast. And then all you hear is, ahh! From the other side. And then Jay and Silent Bob go running from the changing room. And then every time we saw Gwen after that in the movie, she had matted hair. Hair that was tightened up and matted.
Nina Jacobson, who's a wonderful woman, but back then she was a Universal exec. She was our Universal exec. And she was very sweet, and explained it to me like I was a child. A scene like that, Kevin, she's going, like, will turn some people off. She's going, and you don't want that when you're making a comedy.
Like, don't you want to reach the widest possible audience? A couple years later, there's a movie called, "There's Something About Mary," where bodily fluids in the hair is such a thing that it's on the [BLEEP] poster. And I remember at the time being like, man, I could have been the first. Now in 2020, I'm OK.
- So you created each character as a way to deal with your one big regret?
- Yeah, the girl that got away. Trust me, true believer. Trust me.
KEVIN SMITH: A high water mark of my vocation was Stan reading the "Mallrats" script in "Captain Marvel." Number one, movie made over $1 billion, which means more people saw the word "Mallrats" in "Captain Marvel" than have ever seen "Mallrats" collectively maybe since the movie came out. Um, number two, that matters to me. You know, suddenly, in that moment, I was like, wow. Back '95, I shined and put a spotlight on him. In 2019, he returned the [BLEEP] favor.
It's-- it's everything. That honestly- like, I can't overstate how much that meant to me. And I know that Stan didn't create it himself, but that Stan was the one doing it. That Stan didn't hear the idea and be like, I don't want to do that. Think of something else. That he was just like, oh, let's do that, means everything. It's-- it warms my [BLEEP] heart to this day.
- Yeah, well I can't thank you enough--
- Oh, forget it. But you know, I think you ought to get him some help. He seems to be really hung up on superhero sex organs.
