Chad Daybell Trial Day 6: Former friend testifies to how Chad and Lori Daybell first met

BOISE, Idaho (ABC4) — Chad Daybell was back in the Ada County Courthouse in Boise, Idaho on Thursday, facing charges of murder, conspiracy to commit murder, insurance fraud and grand theft in connection to the deaths of his wife, Tammy Daybell, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

WHAT TO KNOW: A complete timeline for the Daybell, Vallow murders

FBI Forensic Accountant Michael Douglass returned to the stand to continue his testimony in to the financial accounts for those related to the case. A summary of his previous testimony can be found here.

Finances continued

Douglass indicated that Tylee Ryan had a Venmo account that was associated with her own bank account. She had frequently used Venmo to send money to her older brother, Colby Ryan, though Douglass testified she only sent $170 over four transactions.

Douglass said there was still activity on Tylee’s Venmo account after she had died, where her account had sent 29 payments totaling $5,940.

While being questioned by defense attorney John Prior, Douglass said there was no indication that Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow were sharing accounts. In fact, Lori was already in line to receive a life insurance payout from the death of Joseph Ryan before she had met Chad. Prior asked Douglass if he noticed anything that would show Chad was interested in Lori’s money, which Douglass said there was none.

However, Douglass later told prosecutors that transactions supported that Chad and Lori had started living with one another in Hawaii.

To further his argument that Chad was not financially motivated, Prior asked Douglass about Tammy Daybell’s life insurance policy. Prior said Tammy had a life insurance policy from 2002, which didn’t come as a surprise to Douglass. That policy was increased shortly after Tammy began work as a school librarian around 2015.

Spirits, rebirth, and Chad and Lori’s first meetings

Melanie Gibb, one of Lori’s close friends, took the stand after Douglass stepped down and gave prosecutors testimony about when Chad and Lori first met — at a conference in St. George in 2018 where the two seemed to connect.

“They communicated a lot and were very interested in communicating about the things they were learning and talking about. It seemed to be very friendly,” Gibb said. “They seemed to be attracted to each other. That caught my attention.”

Gibb told prosecutor Lindsey Blake that she knew Lori and Chad were both married to Charles Vallow and Tammy Daybell, respectively, at the time of their meeting. Gibb said Lori and Chad continued to talk throughout the conference and at a second conference held in Arizona in November 2018. According to Gibb, Lori and Chad frequently discussed past lives and that the two had been married in a previous life.

“[Lori] said [she and Chad] were going to be resealed like they had been in previous lives together,” Gibb testified, adding Lori said the two had gone to a temple about a month after meeting each other to be resealed.

Gibb said Lori would frequently turn to Chad for advice after meeting him. Through Chad, Gibb said Lori learned about many things including the concept of “light and dark contracts” and spiritual possession. The first person Lori mentioned was possessed by a dark spirit was Charles Vallow, Gibb said.

Lori reportedly had a dream that Charles and JJ died in a car crash while the two were away in Texas. Gibb said it was shortly after this dream that Lori claimed Charles’ body was inhabited by an evil spirit named “Ned Snider,” information Gibb said Lori got from Chad.

Gibb participated in several “castings” to remove the evil spirits which, according to Chad and Lori, were often successful. Though on each success another spirit would reportedly enter the body and another casting would have to be done. Gibb said there were three such castings done for Charles Vallow and other castings done for Brandon Boudreaux and Tammy Daybell.

Blake asked Gibb about Charles’ death, to which Gibb said she had been staying with Lori in July 2019. One morning she was kicked out by Lori, who reportedly told her that Charles was coming back from Texas to kill her. Four days after Charles was killed on July 11, 2019, Gibb said she spoke to Lori and her brother Alex Cox about the incident.

“She told me that [Charles] came from Texas and that they were arguing. He put his cell phone in the car and she grabbed it and ran into the house. He was really upset with her,” Gibb said. “They were standing in the kitchen and he was yelling at her. Tylee had a bat and was trying to protect her mom or herself. Charles and Alex got into a physical fight and Alex went to get his gun to protect himself.”

Gibb recounted that Alex had a similar story. She testified that Lori didn’t show any signs of sadness or grief at the loss of her husband but Alex seemed doubtful and unsure of himself. A while later, Gibb said Lori and Chad were together, seeming very excited while talking about future plans together.

Lori told Gibb that she and Chad really loved each other and had been together through multiple lives. Lori also reportedly admitted to Gibb that she and Chad had been physically intimate together multiple times, even while being married to Charles and Tammy. Lori said she would get affirmation with Jesus to ensure it’s OK.

JJ’s disappearance

Gibb said she had visited Lori’s house in Idaho for a conference around September 2019. She said she stayed at Lori’s for the weekend and that Alex Cox, Chad Daybell and her then-boyfriend David Warrick would frequently come and stay at Lori’s home.

Lori and Chad reportedly were very intimate with each other over that weekend both in the apartment and out in public.

“They seemed to be a couple that was close and loved each other,” said Gibb. “There was affection and hugging. I saw her kiss him on the cheek. They were singing together [and] maybe a little dancing.”

During her stay, Tylee was not present but JJ Vallow was there. Gibb said JJ had his own room but JJ would often sleep in a corner of Lori’s room where she had set up a space for him. The last night Gibb saw JJ, she said Alex had gone to put him to bed but not in his room. Gibb said she assumed JJ had been put to sleep in his space in Lori’s room because that weekend David was staying in his room.

That night David had woken up in panic with a really bad dream, prompting Gibb to reach out to Chad and Lori for a prayer and blessing. She said she tried to call and text Chad and Lori but neither would answer. When she went to their room, the door was locked and no one answered. Prosecutor Lindsey Blake asked Gibb if she ever saw JJ again, which Gibb said she never did.

Lori later told Gibb that JJ was acting out more and she became troubled that JJ had been taken over and was possessed. Lori told Gibb that JJ was going to be taken to his grandmother, Kay Woodcock. Gibb said she believed Kay had picked up JJ at the Salt Lake City Airport and was in her care. That was until she received a phone call from Chad.

Gibb said Chad warned the Rexburg Police Department was going to call her asking about JJ. She said Chad sounded nervous, warning her not to pick up the phone and answer the call. When Gibb asked why the Rexburg Police would be calling her, Chad told her that Lori claimed JJ was with Gibb.

Gibb testified that she initially complied with Lori and Chad’s request and avoided speaking with the police. She did eventually talk to police with an attorney present before later confessing that JJ was never with her.

Gibb confronts Chad and Lori

The Thanksgiving after JJ’s disappearance, Gibb and David began asking questions. They called Chad and Lori asking about where JJ was but they would not answer. Gibb spoke with Alex Cox a day or two later and told him her concerns. When she asked Alex if she wanted to know where JJ was, Alex said she didn’t.

On Dec. 8, 2019, Gibb called Chad and Lori and confronted them about her concerns. Prosecutors played a recording of that phone call in the courtroom, which starts sweet and cordial before turning heated and confrontational. Gibb asked again where JJ was only for Chad to reply, “If you knew where JJ was, that puts you in danger.”

Chad and Lori continue saying JJ was “happy and safe” and somewhere no one would be able to find him. At one point in the call, Lori said she didn’t know why Gibb was being “controversial with her” saying she loved Gibb. Gibb rejected Lori saying, “If you really loved me, you would not have told the police I had JJ with me.”

Gibb told both Chad and Lori that she had a weird feeling in her stomach after Tammy died and then Charles died. Gibb said she had never been at peace with everything that was happening around the two.

The call grew into an argument where Chad and Lori told Gibb she was being influenced by dark forces, which Gibb denied saying Lori was being deceived. At one point, Gibb asked if they could understand her concerns only for Chad to say yes from an outsider’s perspective and Lori saying Gibb should know better with “everything she knows.”

Shortly after the call, the court room took a lunch recess and will return at 1 p.m. MT.

Afternoon session

After returning from lunch, Melanie Gibb was back on the stand as Lindsey Blake continued her questioning.

Blake asked Gibb about the recording played before the lunch break, where Chad made comments that Tammy was going to die. Gibb said when Tammy died in Oct. 2019, she reached out to Lori, who seemed like she already knew of the death.

Gibb said that sometime before Tammy’s death Lori told her that Tammy was supposed to continue her mission on the other side of the veil, and that Tammy would be okay with Lori and Chad being together.

Gibb said she heard Tammy referred to as “dark” either at the end of September or early October 2019, fairly close to her actual death. She said Chad would be the person who labeled people as “dark.”

Gibb said that at some point, Lori told her that Tammy was becoming suspicious of her and Chad, but Gibb couldn’t remember when this was said.

Blake asks Gibb if the teachings of light and dark evolve. Gibb said yes, and explained people who were “dark” became referred to as zombies, and said that other teachings evolved as well.

Blake asked Gibb if Lori ever showed any doubt in the teachings. Gibb responded by saying Lori mentioned once or twice, “If Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one.” Gibb said this indicated to her that Lori had some doubts.

Gibb said when she asked Alex Cox if he 100% believed if zombies were true, he said he 100% believed it.

Cross-examination from Prior

Prior began his cross-examination of Melanie Gibb by asking her about when she first met Chad. Gibb said summer 2017 at a Preparing a People Conference, to which Prior asked her to explain more about these conferences.

“It had multiple levels, some people shared conferences about science, some shared about the Book of Mormon and the evidence of the Native Americans, some people shared their visions, some people talked about ancient scripture information, some people talked about stars, it was a variety of subjects,” Gibb said.

Prior asked Gibb about her idea of premonitions and visions, she explained that to her a vision is like someone seeing something in their sleep, but experiencing it as if it’s real, and premonitions are more like a gut feeling something will happen.

Prior asked Gibb if her husband has the gift of dreams and visions, to which she said yes. At one point, she believed that Chad would have dreams and visions.

Gibb said that before Chad met Lori, he brought up at some of these conferences that his wife Tammy would have a short life. Gibb said she first heard of this revelation he made around 2017-2018.

Prior further questioned Gibb about some of the teachings – such as vibrations and the concept of calling people “light” or “dark”, which she said are inconsistent with the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Prior also asked Gibb about prior conversations Gibb had with a detective, where she said she doesn’t have the best memory in the world, and sometimes has difficulty getting facts and dates and times right, she said that is correct.

He asked her about texts exchanged between her and prosecutor Rob Wood. Gibb said that their conversations were frequent in the beginning for a short time. He asked her if it would surprise her to learn that between May and November 2020, she and Wood exchanged text messages over 340 times. Gibb responded by saying it’s possible but she’s not sure, and that communications were more often in the beginning.

Prior asked if any time during her communication with Wood if she said she needed to protect a person or organization in order to testify. Gibb said her intentions were not to protect anything, just to share what she knew.

Prior then read a text Gibb sent to Wood, which said “Keith, the guy from Dateline, and I want to make sure the church is protected. He has done a good job so far. That’s why I feel comfortable talking with him.”

Prior asked why these messages were sent to Wood, who is prosecuting Chad. She responded that she felt comfortable talking to Wood to let him know what she was up to.

Prior then went through the timeline of when Gibb met Lori, and several moves she had in Arizona and Hawaii. He asked Gibb to clarify how often she spoke Lori. She said at one point they communicated daily, but it lessened as Lori was moving around.

Prior asked Gibb about her relationship with Tylee, to which she said they had no relationship.

Wood pointed out that Gibb often said Lori would tell her about what Chad said, rather than hearing from Chad directly.

He also said in the tape played earlier in the day, Lori’s responses sounded singular, citing examples such as “I had to move her somewhere else” when Lori talked about Tylee and “I will do whatever the Lord needs me to.” Prior noted that Lori did not speak in “we” terms during this conversation.

He asked Gibb about the day that she saw Alex Cox carrying JJ Vallow. Gibb said she didn’t witness where he took him, but he wasn’t in JJ or Tylee’s room. Prior asked more about the nightmare David had that night.

Following that night, Gibb said she left at 9:30 that morning, to which Prior asked if she asked about JJ before she left. She said it was possible but she doesn’t remember what she said.

Prior told Gibb her memory was clear when discussing zombies and dark and light.

Court adjourned at 3:15 p.m. and is planned to continue tomorrow, Friday, April 19.

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