Biden Special Counsel Transcript Paints More Nuanced Picture of His Memory

(Bloomberg) -- A transcript of President Joe Biden’s interview with Justice Department Special Counsel Robert Hur painted a mixed picture of his mental acuity, an issue Republicans have deployed as a cudgel in the 2024 election.

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The roughly 250-page transcript reviewed by Bloomberg News revealed Biden spoke in vivid detail about his work process as vice president, policy debates at the time, the layout of his Wilmington home and even a historical reenactment he witnessed in Mongolia.

The full interview raises questions about Hur’s description of Biden in a report he released last month as “an elderly man with a poor memory,” which set off a political firestorm and in some ways overshadowed his decision not to charge the president over his handling of classified documents.

Hur struck a different tone at several points in the interview, according to the transcript. In one instance, the special counsel said Biden’s description of how he received his daily intelligence briefing as vice president was “very helpful” and Biden, 81, quipped back, “I’m a young man so it’s not a problem.”

The Justice Department on Tuesday released the transcript, which it prepared, to Congress.

Hur testified Tuesday before the House Judiciary Committee and faced questions from members of both parties about his conclusions. Hur defended both his decision not to charge Biden and his statements about the president’s memory that outraged Democrats.

“I understood that my explanation about this case had to include rigorous, detailed and thorough analysis. In other words, I needed to show my work,” Hur told lawmakers. “I knew that for my decision to be credible, I could not simply announce that I recommended no criminal charges and leave it at that. I needed to explain why.”

Hur said Biden’s state of mind was relevant to his decision not to charge, saying it was “necessary, accurate and fair” to present why Biden’s memory would make it hard to prove to a jury that the president broke the law.

“I did not sanitize my explanation. Nor did I disparage the president unfairly,” he said.

The hearing and transcript release come at a time when the White House is aggressively confronting questions about Biden’s age, which polls show as his biggest liability heading into the November election.

Read More: Biden Emerges Battered But Not Broken Following Age Onslaught

A February Bloomberg News/Morning Consult poll, which surveyed voters days after Hur’s report was issued, showed swing-state voters across every demographic describe Biden as too old. Last week, Biden delivered a fiery State of the Union address that included lines nodding at his age and the president’s campaign released an ad on Saturday taking the issue on as well.

There were also several lapses and sloppy exchanges throughout the course of the five-hour, two-day interview.

Biden misstated the year in which his son Beau died, and the subject was not “raised” by Hur, as the president said during a news conference last month. Biden, however, said the correct month and day of his passing.

The president said he did not know when asked by Hur where he kept papers related to his work immediately after leaving office. Biden then asked if this was around 2017 or 2018, and Hur replied that it was.

Read More: Biden’s Attempt to Address Memory Issue Backfires With New Gaffe

“In this time frame, my son is either been deployed or is dying,” Biden continued, “What month did Beau die? Oh God, May 30.”

At that point, an interview participant said 2015 was the year he passed.

On two occasions, Biden stumbled over the term “fax machine.” When asked about a file at another point, Biden said, “well if it was 2013, when did I stop being vice president?”

Biden repeatedly said he did not knowingly keep classified material and said it was his practice while in office to return those documents once he was done with them.

Yet Biden could not recall details of how his files were moved to his homes after leaving the White House in 2017, who was responsible and why some classified materials were included in them. He also said he did not know why he told a ghostwriter he had discovered classified material at his Virginia home in 2017.

Biden clarified a remark about a document tucked into a notebook at his Wilmington home that was marked classified. Biden said “it had little print” which he said “matters in terms of how important they think it is.”

When the interview continued the following day, Biden said, “I didn’t keep anything that wasn’t — I thought was classified” and that anything with markings on them, “I gave that back” or “I didn’t see it.”

‘Lot of Stuff’

Biden came across as a disorganized pack rat, with reams of documents, photos and mementos from his five decades in Washington scattered throughout his homes. He said he left it to staff to move out the contents of his office. Investigators and the president himself described papers haphazardly thrown into drawers and filing cabinets, and that he got rid of little during moves.

“My generic problem was that there was a lot of stuff,” Biden said.

The president told prosecutors that first lady Jill Biden once suggested that he keep a daily diary to record the events of his career, but he said he was not organized enough to do so.

Biden and his attorneys several times objected to Hur’s inquiries around details about his household storage systems. The special counsel said he had “clunkily” asked a question when Biden’s lawyer accused him of speculation about a set of files.

The president corrected Hur when he said two different documents might be the same and said he had “no goddamn idea” what was inside old boxes stored in his garage.

At other times, the tone was playful.

Biden said he had “embarrassed the hell out of the leader of Mongolia” during a 2011 visit by hitting a target with a bow and arrow during a show of traditional archery, wrestling and dancing.

He made car sounds when emphasizing the power of his prized Corvette, as well as an electric Ford truck he test drove in 2021.

Biden also made an off-color comment about the search of his home during Hur’s investigation.

“I just hope you didn’t find any risque pictures of my wife in a bathing suit. Which you probably did. She’s beautiful,” he said.

--With assistance from Billy House.

(Adds more context starting in third paragraph, Hur testimony from sixth paragraph)

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