The X Change Rate: Derrick Barry & Naomi Smalls

In “The X Change Rate,” award-winning drag queen, entertainer and TV personality Monét X Change brings her signature wit, heart and style to BUILD Series. Joining Monét for a chat are the fabulous drag queens Derrick Barry and Naomi Smalls.

Video Transcript

MONET X CHANGE: Hey, y'all. It's your girl, Monet, and you're watching "The X Change Rate," a talk show that doubles as the official Derrick Barry stan account. We have a really, really, really good show today, because we're chatting and revealing all of the secrets of one of my favorite human beings on this god awful planet, Naomi Smalls. And later, we're finding out the real reason Derrick Barry went all the way left in all sauce five-- all stars? "All Stars 5" season premier.

But first, let's get into the gig. OK, y'all, I mean, can we talk about this motherfucking unit, girl. Look at this hair, right? I'm like a cross between, like, a cheerleader and, like, the girl who is sucking off cheer-- the football team. I don't know what that even means.

Anyway, so for the past week, my assistants and I-- we've been cleaning, and we've been organizing my drag room. And I realized I have a lot of dope costumes, garments, and clothes. First of all, we cataloged all of my "Drag Race" stuff. Yes, even the glitter outfit from season 10, even the feather outfit from season 10.

I know, I know, I know, they're shitty, but they're personal, and they're lovely to me. So we catalogued, like, all this stuff, and I'm like, oh my god. I am really, really fierce. We've been Marie Kondo-ing the shit out of my life, and it's because, you know, a big reason I am becoming a fur mom at the rightful ripe age of 30. And I think just, like, you know, a lot has to change, and I just want to just make sure that my little kitty feels nice at home. And it's just making my space just feel more-- I don't know-- I guess homey is the word.

Bob thinks that I should move into my drag room because it's a little smaller than my bedroom. I make my drag room my bedroom. I'm like, I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna give my drag dominion over my home. That's not cool.

Drag queens need to learn to love themselves, and sometimes that means putting drag on the back burner a little bit so you can live your life as a fully fledged human being. I'm already in drag, sitting on my couch, doing shows for y'all. I'm not gonna sacrifice my living quarters, as well, OK?

And it also made me realize how iconic a lot of my costume pieces were, because I thought I had lost it for a while-- the spun dress. Patty had lost it, and we couldn't find it anywhere, but we found the sponge gown and the sponge leotard. And [INAUDIBLE] back. I can see-- I can finally see how the sponge dress may have looked to some people as not being very cute, but I liked-- I liked it. And a lot of pieces dropped off of it.

So in some DragCon or something, or maybe something at home-- we can, like, package some pieces of the sponge, and send it to y'all, and auction it for charity. That might be a really good thing to do. Like, wouldn't you like to have a nice, dirty, smelly, mildewy piece of the sponge gown in your home as memorabilia of an iconic fashion moment in queer history?

Yeah. So look out for that. We might do that. And yeah, but we're gonna get into the hot topics. I mean, the sponge dress broke records. It was iconic. It broke records. Patty is rolling his eyes. We don't pay attention to that.

Another thing breaking records is the George Floyd GoFundMe. Now, I know this is the silver lining out of a very gruesome and tragic story, but this movement has catapulted change all over the globe, but especially in them going [INAUDIBLE], OK? It is setting records for the most donations ever. Before, the record was held by the-- the wall that Trump was funding through GoFundMe because nobody in the government was-- was drinking that-- that-- that mess.

But it has the highest number of individual donations at $500,000 and counting. As of the 9th, they raised $13,385,000. OK, the initial goal was $1.5 million. So they have exceeded that by-- how you do times? By 13 times the amount they wanted. They have exceeded their expectations above and beyond.

And yeah, it was launched on today-- two weeks ago on May 27. And it's a fund to cover, like, funeral costs, burial expenses, providing counseling for the family, paying for lodging and travel for the corporate proceedings. Assisting the family as they seek justice for George. And a big portion is going to his kids to provide for their education for the future.

So it's all-- again, I know it's such a tragic story, but there is good coming out of George Floyd's death. And-- and as people are seeking news of the protests, Twitter is, like, blowing up. So if you are a betting man, if you like stocks, you might want to invest in Twitter, because they have over 600,000 new people signing on to Twitter a week. Girl.

Because, I mean, like it or not, social media these days-- like, that is a reputable news source. Like, that's where-- a lot of people get their news on Facebook, on Twitter. I'm not gonna call Instagram a news source, because that is a little weird, but Facebook and Twitter definitely is a lot of news that's out there. So people are buying it at, like, record, record, record numbers. Some more achievements in just the two weeks-- because, again, that is a big thing that I think a lot of us get in our heads about we're like, so we're gonna go march for five hours and walk over 100 blocks to this thing. Like, what is this all for?

It seems-- a lot of it seems futile, but, girl, big things are happening. Here are some more things that are happening. The Minneapolis votes to defund the police. The Confederate statues are being torn down worldwide. That one in-- where was it?

- Bristol.

MONET X CHANGE: The one in Bristol, bitch. They-- all the people gathered by this lake. They put that rope around that statue.

- English Channel.


- It was the English Channel.

MONET X CHANGE: They were all gathered by a lake called the English Channel, and they tore that statue down and threw it in the river. And it was so good to see all these-- all these-- all these British-- all these Brits just gathering around this water going to, like, dismantle racism. Again, pulling a statue down is not dismantling racism, but it is a step in the right direction. And there are reforms in New York City.

The NFL-- the NFL is finally admitting that they've bungled a lot of the protesters, like Kaepernick, who have taken the knee during the national anthem at football games. I mean, now, remember, like, they were black balling the shit out of Kaepernick after peacefully protesting. And I think it raises a big question of why-- of what the flag means to so many people. Because people were like, yeah, but you can't kneel because my grandfather fought in a war. Yeah, your grandfather fought in a war for the-- for the civil rights and liberties that I don't have, and that I am expressing by kneeling down and posing with the flag.

It's just-- it's like, do people not understand the baseline of what liberty and freedom means? It is literally the freedom to protest? So the NFL has finally taken ownership of that. And you have to remember. The NFL is compromised by 70% black players, OK? That is just about 3/4 of the players are black, but 97% of the owners are white. That is a huge disparity.

That means that 3% of them are POCs. They're not just-- not just black, not just Asian, not just Latin, whatever. 3% is all of those things. That is a-- that is huge, huge, huge, huge, huge, huge. The NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, and he issued a video apology saying that we were wrong in how they handled Colin Kaepernick's peaceful kneeling protest.

And he goes on to say, without black football players, there would be no National Football League. 70%, facts. We, the National Football League, condemn racism and the systemic oppression of black people. We, the National Football League, admit we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out peacefully and protest.

And, I mean, it seems-- no, it doesn't seem small. I think it's big, and I think that it is-- now, I'm not saying-- I don't think we should go around and clap for them, and be like, yay, you admitted that you were wrong. No. Show us. Atone.

Take a big-- do some type of charity. Raise money for Black Lives Matter, for defending police. Like, show us in your actions, not just in your words and your cute little Instagram. Because those are cute, but those expire after a little-- after a while. We want to see actual action on how you are actually changing the community for the better.

Also, NFL players are doing really powerful videos-- the I am George Floyd, Tamir Rice, naming a lot of the victims of-- of police brutality and violence. And the NFL is also using Instagram to highlight their black players and the white allies who are making donations. And again, that's cute, but-- and if-- but the NFL-- don't highlight people. You be the thing that we should be highlighting by donating your coins, because y'all know the NFL is a multiple bil-- bitch, speaking of, I wanna be a baller.

Could you imagine if I found us a big old beautiful basketball player? I mean, a football player. I mean, honestly, I'll take any player, but baseball, basketball, football, soccer, or whatever it is, but specifically an NFL player, because they're just so hefty.

And, you know, I'm a big lady. I want somebody to make me see-- I'm a very big lady. I want somebody to make me feel soft and supple. [INAUDIBLE] hiding in closet. It didn't work-- quite work. But yeah, so NFL, work.

I am a little obsessed with quarterback Drew Brees from the New Orleans Saints. This is what he had to say. Oh, I'm so mad. I love and respect my teammates. And again, this is not an old comment. He said this on June 3, a.k.a. seven days ago.

I love and respect my teammates, and I stand right there with them in regard to fighting for racial equality and justice. I also stand with my grandfathers, who risked their lives for this country and countless other military men and women who do it on a daily basis. Again-- yeah, there is a baby in my hallway. This is-- we're recording at home. Soak it up.

And again, I just feel like this-- this man, whose-- whose grandfather was a vet, is fighting for the freedom-- for that freedom for us to do just that. Now, it goes to note that he apologized for his comments, and the black players went on TV to accept his apology, hoping to grow together as a team with heartfelt discussions. If I was a black player, I'd have been like.

With all this knowledge, you-- you said this seven days ago? With everything that we know now, you said this seven days ago, mama. Work. Privileged-ass motherfucker. No, I'm kidding.

(MUMBLING) When will they start holding their racist fan base accountable. Oh, yeah. And another thing to note is, when will the NFL start holding the racist fans accountable for-- for-- for the peaceful protesters? Because, I mean, now that they're making this declaration, let's see when we all start being able to go to football games again if things will change, but I think a big part will be the NFL shading their fans, who get so irate about kneeling and-- and peacefully protesting football.

So TBD. We'll see how that works out, NFL. We watching.

So, what else? We're all watching miss thing. She's been in hot water all week, girl. It is getting so good. Lea Michele, girl. Lea, Lea, Lea Michele.

You know, a lot of these celebrities-- they need to know that just hashtagging Black Lives Matter does not absolve you from-- from being a shitty person and doing shitty things to your colleagues. And Lea Michele is learning that lesson really hard right now.

So this is Lea's tweet. Y'all ready for it? George Floyd did not deserve this. This was not an isolated incident, and it must end. #BlackLivesMatter. Which, girl, Twitter-- celebrities on Twitter lit her ass the fuck up.

OK, a lot of her former classmates, including black people of color, came out to say that basically Lea Michele is a horrible person. Samantha Ware says, remember when you made my first television gig a living hell? I'll never forget. I believe you told everyone that, if you had the opportunity, you would shit in my wig. [LAUGHING] You would shit in my wig, amongst other traumatic micro aggressions that made me question a career in Hollywood.

First of all, shitting in somebody's wig? That is aggressive. Imagine picking up a wig, putting it down, and defecating in someone's wig.

Look, I mean, that goes beyond calculated. That is-- that is just to-- that's too much. Alex Newell replied with the RuPaul-- with-- with-- with the GIF-- with the GIF, get her, Jade. And then Amber Riley, who was Mercedes Jones on "Glee"-- she posted a GIF of herself sipping tea.

OK, let's talk about that really quick. When people post GIFs of themselves-- like, obviously there are a lot of GIFs of me out there in the world. You're welcome. But using your own GIF-- that is like-- for some reason, it's like a double, double petty. It's like, just using a regular one is fine, but then when us use yourself, it's like, yeah, bitch.

Like, I don't know. Something about that just burns a little more to me. It has a little more [INAUDIBLE]. So I'm all the way here for that with Mercedes Jones, and then this caused Lea-- HelloFresh dropped their partnership with her, and-- after-- after Samantha Ware's tweet. And of course, Lea Michele went on her apology tour.

Here she go. One of the most important lessons of-- of the last few weeks is that we need to take the time to listen and learn from other people's perspectives and role-- and any role we have played, or anything we can do to help address the injustices that they face. You know, a big part of this is that, when you see, like-- when you see celebrities who have committed micro-- or when you see your friends or peers-- in this instance, it's a-- it's a famous person-- supporting Black Lives Matter and doing all those things, it, like, triggers you, because you remember all of the shady microaggressions that they've done for you in the past.

It's like, OK, you're supporting Black Lives Matter, but what about that time you said that you wanted to-- to punch me in the stomach and shit on my chest. You know what I mean? Like, it's just-- it just-- it just triggers you. And I think that's what made Samantha go off.

There are some-- there's a whole slew of other Lea Michele aggressions. One, she did not invite the "Spring Awakening" understudies to the cast party. That shady. Well, although she lives in New York City. It might have been a really small apartment, so, you know-- I mean, so that was one. She told a trans woman who didn't pass that she was in the wrong bathroom. Model plastic martyr.

Now, this-- OK, this other one-- I'mma read it because they put it in the thing, but I'm like, girl. I'll let y'all decide. This is by Elizabeth Aldrich. I was live Michelle's understudy in "Ragtime." She was absolutely awful to me and ensemble. She demeaned the crew and threatened to have people fired if she was in any way displeased.

I used to cry every night from the mean and manipulative things she would do. She was 12. She was terrifying.

OK, girl, 12 years old? I mean, you can't be-- mama, 12 years old? When I was 12 years old, I would cry because someone didn't invite me to play Playstation at their house. That one is a little-- for me. But Candis Cayne joined the party. She tweeted, ha, ha, ha. I guess a lot of us have a nightmare Lea Michele story. And Marti Gould Cummings says that he has some, as well. So-- I mean, Marti Gould Cummings said that they have some, as well.

So I guess Lea Michele is really out here pissing the kids off, girl. And they are letting her have it. I wonder-- I mean, do you think-- have other things dropped her since this-- since this story is being played now? Is someone dropping her at this very moment? Hm. We'll see.

Someone who I am not dropping are Ben & Jerry's, all right? They are seeing-- they are seeing to the dismantling of white supremacy, and it truly is the Americone Dream. OK? See what I did there? Americone Dream? Because they have a flavor called Americone Dream. I mean, the smart people got it.

Yeah, Ben & Jerry's go-- they're these two old white dudes. I believe they're from Vermont. They all-- honestly, they look like Bernie Sanders' cousins. Look-- look-- look it up. Look up Ben and Jerry. They look like Bernie Sanders' fam. They look-- they all look like kin.

Anyway, Ben & Jerry's-- they posted a really, really, really super duper powerful statement on the four step-- on a four step plan to dismantle white supremacy, and these are the steps. Call on Trump and elected officials to condemn white supremacists and national groups. Call on Congress to pass H.R. 40, which is legislation that would commission a study on the effects of slavery and discrimination. Echo Floyd-- echo George Floyd's family a call for bipartisan legislation. Number four, call on the Department of Justice to revamp its civil rights decision and reinstate policies rolled back under the Trump administration.

I mean-- but, I mean, Ben & Jerry's-- they're not new. They're not just doing this so that y'all still buy the ice cream. They've been done been doing stuff, all right?

Other causes they supported-- for climate change, they made a new flavor called Save our Swirled. And in support of LGBTQ equality, they made I Dough, I Dough. You know, for-- for-- so that-- so that you, and me, and she, and we, and they, and them-- that we can all get married. So they're also at the forefront, and they put their money where their mouth is by supporting Black Lives Matter and equality. So Ben & Jerry's, shout out to you.

If you want to sponsor us, I hope you guys see this, and you can do so by sending me a month's supply of fudge brownie-- what is it called? Chocolate fudge brownie? Chocolate fudge brownie ice cream. That is my favorite.

I have not eaten it in quarantine, because, you know. But I will just to support my boys, Ben and Jerry. And by support, I mean them sending me some ice cream for free. Hm, and that's it. Ow.

Yes, miss thing. I told y'all that Xpose was coming back. A girl never not comes through on her word. Y'all know I stan Derrick, but I also had a lot to say about them other bitches. Take a look.

God, I lost a fucking nail. Jesus Christ, where is Patty? Hey, y'all. What's good? What's popping? It's your girl Monet, and you're watching Xpose, the series where I dish, dissect, and introspect episodes of "All Stars" right here on my show.

Now, of course, "All Stars 4" was a little different, because I was on that cast, but "All Stars 5," I know a lot of the girls personally. Bob is over here making noise on purpose.

- That's not true.

MONET X CHANGE: This was my entrance look from season 10. No, I'm not wearing the "All Stars 4" one 'cause y'all rude as hell.

- How did they shame you?

MONET X CHANGE: Girl, are you kidding me? Everyone said I'm cheap as hell. Monet, really? You wore that into the workroom? Ew, gross. You're tacky. Like, all of that.

- Now you're fully about to say that about everyone's entrance looks. Now you're fully about to drag everyone's entrance looks--

MONET X CHANGE: Well, I drug-- I dragged everyone's entrance looks in the last video, so I'm not gonna do the entrance looks and-- and first impressions, because we did that last time, because we had the little 10 minute sneak peak, and we did that already. So if you want to see all my opinions of what the girls wore in the workroom, go back and watch the last video linked in the description box below.

And yeah, and, of course, I'm here with my lovely window. Oh, what's going on out there? Is that a protest? Black Lives Matter, bitch. Power to the people.

I look so beautiful. Correction. Out the gate, Derrick Barry is laying into Ms. India Ferrah. He is relentless, and it's just really savage, because the thing about Derrick, when Derrick reads, it's very even keeled. He's calm. He's not raising his voice. He's not, like, arguing like how you and I argue.

She's not, like, in our face, like, snapping and-- and popping, and giving, like, all of that. It's just very-- like, yeah, because you did this, because you suck. You were fired. Your drag is horrible. And it's not-- it's not my fault that you can't keep a job, you homeless fucking bitch.

I hate you. I hate your parents. Your father should have pushed your mom down the stairs. And that-- like, it's just very that, but all just calm, which is a little cray cray. Are you-- are you and Derrick friends now?

- Yeah, we're friends. Yeah, I love Derrick, and I talked to Derrick on the phone a couple days ago.

MONET X CHANGE: Do you want to be honest about what you said recently?

- What did I say?

MONET X CHANGE: Well, here's a screenshot of-- about Bob said about Derrick right here. The reading challenge-- the reading challenge was good. And I'm sorry, I love Jujubee. Jujubee did a good job. She's really fucking funny.

But Blair-- to me, she owed that reading challenge, honey. She was quick. She was fun. And the thing is what I'm really vibing the most about Blair this season is that she is not-- that is not the girl that I knew in season 10. Season 10, she is just talking about her mom, talking about her family, talking about her-- her town in Indiana.

- You were team Blair?


- Like for the win?

MONET X CHANGE: Yeah, so far. Also because this is just a--

- Based on that talent show, and based on that talent look and that wig she wore, you're team Blair? Go off, sis.

MONET X CHANGE: I thought the hair was nice.

- The-- the performance hair?


- Mo, this ain't my show. This ain't-- this ain't-- this ain't "Sibling Rivalry." This is not the pit stop. I-- I will shut up.

MONET X CHANGE: She's quick. She is-- like, she's-- she's just-- she just-- she just sees it, honey. She just-- she's just-- I fucking love it. Derrick Barry is feeding us again with that good "Drag Race" content, girl, eviscerating India. I mean, she just will not leave that poor girl alone. Derrick Barry is gonna be Gia Gunn in "All Stars 4." Like, yeah, the reason why you're here is because you're talentless, and your mom should have aborted you, but she didn't. Let's break down the Derrick versus India drama for all y'all at home who was late to the party.

From "Drag Race" to magazine covers, to international campaigns with luxury Italian brands, nothing about our first guests is, in fact, small. You know what I'm saying? Y'all, let's welcome Naomi.

NAOMI SMALLS: Hi, Monet. Hi, "The X Change Rate." Thank you so much for having me.

MONET X CHANGE: Well, you know, we wanted you in studio. We were gonna do it in the fall, but you're obviously always busy doing something, and we missed out, so we're doing it now. But this is-- before the interview starts, you have to come to the studio so we can take in every inch of the gorge-osity.

NAOMI SMALLS: I'll do my pedicure just for you--

MONET X CHANGE: You know, I tell people this--

NAOMI SMALLS: --because you know I'm gonna be in an open toe shoe.

MONET X CHANGE: Well, you know, I tell people this all the time. I did not do open toed shoes until Naomi Smalls changed my life, and it's my favorite thing.

NAOMI SMALLS: They're so much more comfortable.

MONET X CHANGE: Very much more comfortable.

NAOMI SMALLS: As long as you have cute feel. Like, I can totally understand hating on some, like, gnarly Raja toes [INAUDIBLE] open toe. But you and I like to put the lotion on our feet.




NAOMI SMALLS: White college, because she's meeting [? Phish. ?]

MONET X CHANGE: Now, Naomi, I'm loving this hair. She is full. She is bodied. She is easy, breezy, beautiful. Did you style her yourself?

NAOMI SMALLS: Absolutely not.


It's so depressing. I went to like-- I went to hair school. I worked behind the chair for three years, and I cannot touch-- I mean, you've see me on tour. I don't know how to deal with wigs unless I'm flat ironing it.

MONET X CHANGE: Well, you did it on me. You sat me in the chair. You were like, Monet, sit down. You put the wig on my head, and you got it together.

NAOMI SMALLS: Yeah, but, like, I have to say this, like, up do situation you've got going on-- I've seen this style on Wendy before, and I stan. So of course I'm gonna stan it on you.

MONET X CHANGE: Thank you.


MONET X CHANGE: I mean, again, you're someone who introduced me to the human hair moment. I was-- OK, before Naomi obvious laws I was not open totally I was not a human hair queen. I was not a-- a blush queen. And Naomi was like, oh, no, no, no, sweets. [INAUDIBLE].

NAOMI SMALLS: So you can just say you were a dude.

MONET X CHANGE: Naomi, how has quarantine been for you, girl? How are you-- do you love it? Do you hate it?

NAOMI SMALLS: I think, in the beginning, I was kind of loving it, because, as you know, like, we just like live on the road. And, I mean, we-- like, we'll complain about getting on that stage until the very last second, and then we're on the stage having fun. I do miss the stage life, and I miss, like, the glam of, like, the smoke-- smoke machines, and, like, having a purpose-- like, bitch, I'm in fucking sweat pants right now, you know? So like, it's-- it's just not as fierce.


NAOMI SMALLS: But I-- and it's like weird being alone, because, like, you're just, like, with your own thoughts, and I kind of miss, like, taking on other people's emotional baggage that's just not my own.

MONET X CHANGE: Yeah, well, you know what? That's-- that's a big part of going on stage. And you were-- you were coming from the Vegas show, where you guys were what, five nights a week?


MONET X CHANGE: And you were living in Vegas. Did you hate it there, or were you like-- it's pretty close to LA, though?

NAOMI SMALLS: I liked the Vegas show, because I had-- had never-- as I was saying, like, you schlep all your stuff, and you put it in a suitcase. And then you get on an airplane, and then you land, and then you have, like, two hours to get ready.


NAOMI SMALLS: It was nice to, like, sleep--

MONET X CHANGE: Two hours-- Naomi, you fully take like four hours to get ready.

NAOMI SMALLS: I don't know what you're talking about.


No, I-- I really liked just being able to wake up and have a full sleep schedule, go to the gym. That is like a forgotten thing at this point.


NAOMI SMALLS: But Vegas was not necessarily my favorite place, as far as like the cigarettes, and the tourists, and the tacky-ness.

MONET X CHANGE: Yeah. Ugh. I mean, the cast of girls was great. The one and only Derrick Barry was on cast. Naomi-- OK, have you seen the first episode of "All Stars 5?"

NAOMI SMALLS: Of course.




NAOMI SMALLS: I'm so disappointed. I'm so disappointed, because she honestly-- like, they're-- and I'm very confident, and when I say this, World of Wonder, VH1, whoever the fuck is behind the decision-- you are so fucking stupid, because Derrick is the best TV that has ever happened.

MONET X CHANGE: 100%. When she went home first, I was like, this has to be a flaw in the fabric of the storytelling of the season. I was like, they are missing out on TV gold sending Barrick-- Barrick-- Derrick home. Like, she's so good.

NAOMI SMALLS: I know. Like, she's just, like, fearless, and you have to respect that. Like, sometimes that works for her. Sometimes it doesn't, but, like, the fact that she's always gonna do what Derrick wants to do-- I stan.

MONET X CHANGE: And the fact she just sits there, and she is so calm, and so even keeled. She's like, yeah, I don't really like you. Your mom's a dog, and I wish your dad would have fucking kicked you down the stairs, you stupid bitch, but-- and you're not really worth anything. Now let's start the reading challenge. I was like, oh god.

NAOMI SMALLS: I know. When she said India had the same teeth as, like, a piranha, I was like [GASP]. I've taught you well.


MONET X CHANGE: But shifting gears, Naomi, so this was something I've always been super interested in because I'm so intrigued by your-- by your-- by your concept. You're known-- you're known for being a very high concept queen. Like, your Instagram looks great, and your looks, and everything.

How do you go about curating a look? Like, is it just like-- are you inspired by something, and you go from there? Or you draw it up yourself? Like, how does that happen?

NAOMI SMALLS: Oh, I love a good theme. So if you give me a theme, I can always run with it, and sometimes it's hard to, like, get that, but I'm obsessed with fashion, so that's always, like, a nice, like, segue for me. If I like--


NAOMI SMALLS: Or even if I like, find, like, a pair of shoes, I've-- I've, like, made outfits around, like, a $2 pair of sunglasses.


NAOMI SMALLS: It always just comes to me very differently, and I-- I love the whole, like, creating what's-- concoction in my head and, like, creating my own imagination, so yeah. I think people always say that I'm a look clean, and I hate that.


NAOMI SMALLS: Because it's not look queen. I just really, really enjoy looking good, and I wish that everyone would do the same.

MONET X CHANGE: Well, there's also-- well, you are someone-- and people say you're look queen. But if they come to see you at Work the World on Vegas, you're actually a really good performer, too. And I think that's where people get fucked up.

And even the girls in season 12-- they're like, oh, I'm a look queen. I'm like, girl, don't pigeonhole yourself. Do the fucking thing. Like, let's just play with all the cards.

NAOMI SMALLS: No, yeah, I think that it's really unfortunate that with drag now, like, we have to have such a-- you have to be a singer. You have to be a comedian. You have to be, like--


NAOMI SMALLS: I 100% think that being a drag queen, and putting yourself on stage, and being vulnerable like that is just such a skill. And I'm already just so, like, appreciative of that that-- that, for me, is like what I find the passion in-- is just being on stage. And I feel like I'm like a true drag queen, not necessarily a look queen or, like, a supermodel queen, or definitely not a comedian, but--

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, no. This-- so this-- so "All Stars 4" was my official love fest for Naomi Smalls. Do you-- is there anything that you regret about "AS4," Naomi? Like, anything that you truly regret about the experience?

NAOMI SMALLS: Oh, I think--

MONET X CHANGE: And would you do it again?

NAOMI SMALLS: I would 1000% never put myself in a-- in a competition setting that is run by a net-- like, a production company. Absolutely no.


NAOMI SMALLS: Absolutely never again.


NAOMI SMALLS: But I had so much fun doing it, and I think that with season 8, as, of course, I didn't win, but my biggest like grateful takeaway was that I was-- I got to meet Bob and Kim. And I think for "All Stars 4," I would say the same thing about you. You really just, like, let me be myself, and I just, like, fell in love with you. And I'm so proud of everything you've done. So even though I don't have a crown on my head, I definitely feel like I've left, like, my stamp on the "Drag Race" world, and--

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, 100%, girl. 150%. You know, I mean, again, luxury brands. I mean, you were on the Instagram page. Aquaria could never, OK?

NAOMI SMALLS: But she did walk for Fenty, so she's got that [INAUDIBLE].

MONET X CHANGE: She did walk for Fenty. She did.


MONET X CHANGE: Which, again, that is a thing. So we had this little Twitter beef-- you, me, Bob. Well, Naomi watches everyone beef about her, and she just sits on the sidelines, sipping her Starbucks like, oh. And Kim posted that goddamn picture of you in the Savage lingerie. And it's like, how is this humanly possible for this bitch to look like this? Are you-- are you still a Savage ambassador? Or are you-- or what's the deal with that?

NAOMI SMALLS: I mean, I definitely don't have my Savage body anymore thanks to quarantine. But it was really nice, like, for all those people who were, like, laughing about the fact that only Naomi Smalls can be a bra and panty. Like, I got to shove that Fenty bra and panty paycheck down their throat, so that was nice for sure.

MONET X CHANGE: And then, speaking of campaigns, Klarna. OK, now, I know Klarna, whatever, but you and Kim did the Klarna brunch. And Naomi, it was so funny, because of all the Naomi-isms and you and Kim interacting, can we maybe see more of that, or are you not moving that direction anymore.

NAOMI SMALLS: Oh, I mean, I'm, like, super excited to do anything with Kim, as you know. Like, I feel like there's just, like, those people that, like, you're literally like sisters. And then it's like-- kind of like la, la, la, like all "Drag Race" girls are sisters or whatever.


NAOMI SMALLS: But like, Kim, to me, is, like, someone who is just, like, we are almost the same person, and I think that's, like, why it works.


NAOMI SMALLS: She's just like--

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, wait, I think-- I think we-- we broke up. OK, never mind. We're back. We're back. OK, there we go. There we go. OK, good.

NAOMI SMALLS: This fucking digital drag shit.

MONET X CHANGE: I know. Oh, Naomi, I hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it. And a little birdie had told me that there might be a Naomi Smalls KimChi Chic beauty products crossover. Are we gonna see a Naomi Smalls product for KimChi Chic beauty?

NAOMI SMALLS: Yes, I'm super excited to be part of the KimChi Chic beauty family. I-- like, they have adopted me as, like, their first, like, collab.


NAOMI SMALLS: And I'm honored. I feel like the first time I saw Kim walk into the workroom on "Drag Race"-- like, I was already a fan of her beforehand, but I just, like, kind of saw this being her, like, segue career.


NAOMI SMALLS: So I'm just, like, so, so, so proud of Kim, and I'm super honored that she got to, like, include me in it. And it's going to be really sickening palettes.


NAOMI SMALLS: It's very, like--

MONET X CHANGE: How many colors?

NAOMI SMALLS: Oh, I want to say they're-- I want to say there's like 24 in the shadow pack.

MONET X CHANGE: Work, bitch.

NAOMI SMALLS: But there's, like, a lot of other, like, products coming out with the glitter topper and, da, da, da. I don't even know if I'm allowed to talk about it yet, but-- see? This is what I'm talking about. I get too comfortable with you.

MONET X CHANGE: You heard it here first, an "X Change Rate" exclusive. We're gonna have a Naomi Smalls, KimChi Chic collab.

NAOMI SMALLS: Yes. The super--

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, you know what? You have to have a body glow. You love body glow.

NAOMI SMALLS: Girl, I love body glow if I'm doing a photo shoot, but fuck that shit on stage. I, like, gave up the tucking. I mean, I still wear my thumb nails.


NAOMI SMALLS: I don't get it. I just don't get it. Bitch, we all have thumbs. Everyone looks at them. Put a nail on there.

MONET X CHANGE: But-- but it's just the simple things that you need to do. A thumbnail just comes in the way, girl.

NAOMI SMALLS: Mhm. I really need to write a book on, like, the do's and don'ts.

MONET X CHANGE: We-- Naomi, we talked about this. Listen, y'all comment below. Shouldn't Naomi do the do's and don'ts of drag? Like, a fun coffee table book interspliced with-- of fierce photo shoots. It will sell like hotcakes. Everything you fucking sell sells like hotcakes. Like, do it.

NAOMI SMALLS: Yeah, I need to. It needs to have, like, legs that are, like, propped open to become another coffee table book, like "Seinfeld." Yeah.

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, work. Well, that's good.

NAOMI SMALLS: Mhm, I'm just stealing other people's references.

MONET X CHANGE: [INAUDIBLE], girl. So Nam, so we-- you had talked a little bit about doing a one woman show. Are we-- are we gonna get a Naomi Smalls one woman show in the future?

NAOMI SMALLS: I feel like every single fucking plan I've ever had with this thing, like, something fucking happens.


NAOMI SMALLS: So, of course, like, you know, the quarantine happened, but I'm trying to make it more of a digital thing.


NAOMI SMALLS: And I absolutely do miss the stage. I'm not comfortable, though, to be performing in front of my living room on Instagram live. I'm just not that girl. Like, I don't have that cute of an apartment, and I-- it's just not glam to me. So do you miss the stage?

MONET X CHANGE: I really do, girl. I miss, miss, miss the stage. You know, unfortunately, because you were doing Vegas, you-- you didn't do the last leg of Work the World, because tour is so fun. I mean, Kim is a lot of-- and Plastique a lot of fun, too. It's just not having Naomi Smalls.

But, you know, I miss touring with people that you like working with, because when you tour with bitches you don't fucking like, that is not the tea. And it's not fun whatsoever.


MONET X CHANGE: But, you know.

NAOMI SMALLS: We were so spoiled on Work the World, because, like, it was literally, like, people we love. Like, it had you, Plastique, and Kim. Like, when is that ever gonna happen again?

MONET X CHANGE: Like, never. Never.




MONET X CHANGE: So that really, really bums me out.

NAOMI SMALLS: I hate-- I hate group chats, but I love ours.

MONET X CHANGE: You know, Bob talks love about the secret queen group chats I'm a part of. I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like, [INAUDIBLE] I just-- I don't know what you're talking about, girl. And us sending really shady pictures of Bob to each other because he's so busted.


NAOMI SMALLS: The new eye work, ever since, like, Layla, like, touched, and, like, he, like, learned, like-- I'm obsessed.

MONET X CHANGE: Yeah, I know. I love her so much. And the last thing I wanted to talk about really quick, because one of the producers brought this up, because they were talking about, like, all your amazing stats. And it was like her video, "Pose," has 1.7 million. I was like, remember when Manila tried to comfort you saying that you wouldn't get as many views of her. Now you have destroyed her.

NAOMI SMALLS: Gosh. You know, like, , that whole Manila thing is-- I-- you know this. Like, I had no idea that was even gonna be a reaction. Like, I just was going with what I wanted to do in that moment. And I absolutely hate that, like, my time and, like, all the work that I put into "Drag Race," and, like, all the wigs that were styled, and all the costumes I sketched, and all that jazz-- like, forever my name is just gonna be attached to Manila. Like, I can't do anything about it. But, yeah, that kind of sucks.

MONET X CHANGE: But Naomi, but it was still one of the most-- it goes down in history as iconic-- the iconic life's not fair. And you just be so irreverent about it. And I mean, fans right now-- because I was-- and I got a little bit of it, but, girl, they were mad at you. But now the tables have turned. Everyone is like, oh, this bitch talking about police are great, support your local police. And everyone's like, Naomi was right.

NAOMI SMALLS: And you know what? I would do it again in a heartbeat.

MONET X CHANGE: That's why I love you so much.

NAOMI SMALLS: I still get messages to this day talking about it, and, like, I love that I really made people feel something. And I hope that I also inspired other girls to, like, go in there, and fight for themselves, and not worry about the fucking fans who are just hiding behind a private account.

MONET X CHANGE: Down. Down, down, down. Naomi Smalls, you are legitimately legendary. I fucking love you. Thank you so much for being a guest on the show. Thank you for letting this happen. For so long, we trying to plan it out, and I'm happy we finally got it together.

NAOMI SMALLS: Thank you so much for having me. I love you so much.

MONET X CHANGE: And come to the studio.

NAOMI SMALLS: I would love to. I will have my fucking shrimp cocktail feet in-- in an open toed sandal right for you. They will be Jimmy Choo though.

MONET X CHANGE: Thank you, Naomi. I love you so much.

NAOMI SMALLS: I love you, Monet.

MONET X CHANGE: Mwah! Our next guest snatched my wig so fiercely on this last episode of "All Stars," I am still recovering from the whiplash. Y'all, make some noise for Derrick motherfucking Barry.

DERRICK BARRY: Hi, Monet. How are you?

MONET X CHANGE: Derrick, how are you, dear?

DERRICK BARRY: You know, I have-- I have realized that I'm kind of-- I'm kind of good. I'm liking what's circulating online, and I'm-- I'm happy to set the truth free. And after a year of holding all these secrets, it's exciting to expose them.

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, Derrick, I mean, you came in guns blazing. And I think what is so endearing and also charming is that you can tell that it's coming from a very honest place, and you're, like, speaking your truth. And so that's why everyone is not, like, up in arms. They're like, oh, Derrick is just being honest. Like, what is the tea with India? Like, why such the hostility?

DERRICK BARRY: Oh my gosh. I mean, there's-- there's years to uncover. Where do I start?



MONET X CHANGE: Oh, yeah, I didn't know it was like years.

DERRICK BARRY: I think it-- it pretty much-- it pretty much started-- the first thing I noticed was when I had left for season 8 to film I had asked India to do some clothes for me-- costumes for the show. And I didn't hear back from her, which was fine. And then, when I had gotten back, there was a post made something about the-- I know the cast of season 8. And let me just tell you, it's gonna be a boring season. It's gonna be a boring season.

And I-- you know, she had done that with seasons prior with girls, and talked about the show, and all that. And I just never thought it would include me, because I considered her a friend.


DERRICK BARRY: And then very similar things happen when Ferrah and Kimora were-- when Ferrah and Kimora were on the next season. You know, I was seeing things circulate, but it really got personal when it-- when it involved Nebraska. And my whole thing is we are so lucky to be a part of this franchise, and when you are a Ru girl, you're held at a higher standard period. You just are, and you should be, because we're ambassadors to the franchise that Ru has built with World of Wonder.

And so for me to see a Ru girl come for another person that has not been on the show-- Nebraska-- when it's about a gig. You know what I mean? It's like there's so many bigger things you could be fighting in this world, but to--


DERRICK BARRY: --to come for someone new and up and coming-- Nebraska had just been doing drag about a year at that point. And I just thought that it was-- it was not the way to conduct yourself when you are a Ru girl.

MONET X CHANGE: And now, so now going back into "All Stars 5," you know, a big-- a big part of-- well-- well what-- towards your exit interview, you were say how people just don't understand what you're trying to do, and-- but in the beginning, you were saying that, coming in, you were gonna give different stuff and not just Britney. But you did a lot of Britney in "All Stars 5." How do you reconcile those two-- what seems like conflicting ideals for Derrick Barry?

DERRICK BARRY: Yeah, well, the first thing is-- and just like season 8, I had to go in as Britney, because you never know when you're gonna get sent home. You never know when you're gonna land in the bottom.


DERRICK BARRY: And I will not make the same mistake that I did on season 8, you know, blocking brows like this, or painting my face like this to show that I'm an evolved drag queen. I needed to show my evolved Britney. And then episode two obviously get to-- to drag.


DERRICK BARRY: And-- and Ongina didn't know the lyrics to RuPaul's songs twice. And if you are coming back from season 1, and you're lip syncing to RuPaul's songs, I would expect that you would know the lyrics, especially if you're coming back to show your evolution over the past 10 years. And the same with Mayhem. I would have expected, if she's gonna be singing a song, to understand her lyrics, and-- and I couldn't.

So for me being the only one coming out with a live mic, no backing track, no dancers-- it's just me and a mic. It was-- it was scary, and it was exhilarating, and it's exciting. And I got to put something that I love doing, which is vocal impressions, out there.

MONET X CHANGE: Now, see that was what I was saying. I was like, you know what? And I get it. We're all drag queens. We lip sync. We do those things.


MONET X CHANGE: But I was thinking-- I was like, I want to see more variety. And that was the reason why I liked yours, because it wasn't the typical standard of just doing a lip sync song that was self-referential and doing a dance or whatever.


MONET X CHANGE: Like, you were-- you-- you tried to do something different. Like Shea pole danced. You did impressions.


MONET X CHANGE: Like, you guys broke from the norm, which is--


MONET X CHANGE: And in "All Stars" I appreciate more, because at this point, the fans have seen you lip sync a bajillion times. Offer something a little different, you know?

DERRICK BARRY: Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, OK, nobody's going to do impressions. Nobody is gonna do that, because we see-- we see from "Drag Race" that not everybody can do impersonations or impressions. And that's why some people fail at snatch game, and they're just doing one character.


DERRICK BARRY: So for me to go in and be like, I'm doing 15 characters in a minute, I thought that it was something that the judges would really appreciate. You know, this is a reality TV show. It's a-- it's a-- a game show competition. It's everything that you would want to see from drag queens.

MONET X CHANGE: Do you-- do you regret going back? Do you wish that you didn't-- that you didn't?

DERRICK BARRY: I-- I mean, I can't regret it, because I do think that it led me to the Vegas show.


DERRICK BARRY: And like I said, I'm the only cast member from "All Stars 5" to be a part of that cast. There's only six of us that are mains.


DERRICK BARRY: And-- and to do Britney on the strip in a "Drag Race" show is such an honor.


DERRICK BARRY: And it really shows fans that celebrity impersonation isn't going anywhere. It's here to stay. That's why there is the snatch game. It's-- it's under the umbrella of drag, and so many people think, oh, well, you just-- you're a female impersonator. You're a celebrity female impersonator. You're not a drag queen.

Well, Jaida also said that she's a female impersonator, and she won the show. So you have to kind of--

MONET X CHANGE: Gee, though.

DERRICK BARRY: You have to, you know, understand people are gonna have different definitions of drag. And I-- I love everybody's drag. They're-- you're never gonna hear me say, that's not drag. I'm coming for you, because that's not drag.

It-- it's self-expression, you know? So I just think that to discount celebrity impersonation is-- it's so sad that the fan base wants to do that sometimes.

MONET X CHANGE: Well, yeah, totally. Totally. Is there-- are you cool with everyone else outside of India, or are there other girls who were really getting under your skin? Because you seem to be cool to anybody else except for India.

DERRICK BARRY: Yeah, well, and that's the thing-- is I am cool with everybody else. I mean, you can ask any Vegas girls that have been on the show that lived here at one time, that have moved, that still live here. I mean, whatever-- whoever you want to ask, but I have never had issues with any other "Drag Race" girl like that. I-- I've had fun TV drama, or Twitter wars, or things like that that I think are fun for the audience, and it's entertaining.


DERRICK BARRY: Because I watched "Drag Race" from the beginning, and I grew up at-- from 20 years old being backstage in a Vegas show with catty queens. And I applauded them, and I'd laugh at them when-- when they would have quick wit and come up with something like--


DERRICK BARRY: --just in a snap. And they had a read or a come back. And so not everybody went through that with their-- their drag . Families and I got thrown into it, so I just learned from the best.

MONET X CHANGE: Is there-- what is next for Derrick Barry? What are we gonna see next on the horizon?

DERRICK BARRY: What is next? You know, I'm really excited to get back to the Vegas show, because we were only open for six weeks, and--

MONET X CHANGE: Yeah. I want to come see it, by the way. I want to come see it so bad. It looks so good.

DERRICK BARRY: Yeah, you have to. I would love for you and Bob to come, and maybe do, like, a podcast on the stage or something. I mean, I-- I think that--

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, that would be so cute.

DERRICK BARRY: The sky's the limit, and the Flamingo has been so welcoming to us. Other than that, you know, I-- I've always thought, OK, well, you know, I want to show people more drag, but now I feel like I don't know if I need to, because I love my drag is Britney inspired. It has kept me working for almost 20 years.

It landed me on the strip in three different shows, and I fly down from the ceiling now four stories, entering the stage as Britney with six backup dancers. So losing is the new winning, and I really do-- I really do believe that. It really is.


DERRICK BARRY: I mean, of course I'd love to win the show. I'd love to win "All Stars," but at the same time, I came back to "Drag Race" to create reality TV moments, not to get a crown. I mean, I'm already, like--

MONET X CHANGE: Yes, you definitely came through on the promise, Ms. Derrick Barry.

DERRICK BARRY: I just-- I love those characters. I think Tiffany "New York" Pollard is one of the most iconic reality television stars. And she speaks her mind.

MONET X CHANGE: 100%. 100%.

DERRICK BARRY: She absolutely is unapologetic. There are no regrets. I've watched her on every single show that she's been on, because, for me, that is the queen of reality TV. And I've learned a lot from-- from her on not holding back. And, you know--


DERRICK BARRY: You can call me a lot of things, but fake will never be one of them, because I just-- like I said, I'm too real to be fake with someone. Way too real.

MONET X CHANGE: Oh, Derrick, you are-- I can't even put into words. You are just so-- I guess the word is just so-- is earnest the word? Just so honest.


MONET X CHANGE: Like, I just love how you just- you just-- you just laid out there, girl. You're like, this is the team. You-- you went on TV. You said pretty much I will let India know that she's a fat cunt. It was very [INAUDIBLE] it was very Gemma Collins.


MONET X CHANGE: And I am obsessed.

DERRICK BARRY: She's so mean. She's too mean. Yeah.

MONET X CHANGE: Derrick, I-- listen, Bob and I definitely want to have you on the podcast. We spoke about it the other day. So I'll-- I'll send you a text message. I'll DM you my number. We'll chat, and we'll make that happen.

DERRICK BARRY: I'd love that.

MONET X CHANGE: Thank you so much for coming on "The X Change Rate."

DERRICK BARRY: Yay, thank you.

MONET X CHANGE: You're great. You're a diva.

DERRICK BARRY: Thank you. Thank you for-- for keeping drag out there.

MONET X CHANGE: And I'll talk to you soon.

DERRICK BARRY: I'm just so proud of you, and thank you for everything that you're doing for the drag community.

MONET X CHANGE: Of course. Thank you, my dear. Be safe. Tell Nebraska I said hey girl.


MONET X CHANGE: OK, bye, my love.


MONET X CHANGE: And y'all, that's it. That is the show. Two great guests, lots of talk, lots of shade. I stan Naomi. I love Derrick. And I hope y'all enjoyed the show. Keep up the good fight if you're still out there marching, and protesting, and demonstrating. And remember to always keep your currency in check. What a lady.