MAKERS@Home with Lauren Crampsie
“It's how do I get through every single day moving from, you know, allyship to accompliceship? And you don't always get everything right as a white woman.” Lauren Crampsie, president of Ogilvy New York, talks with MAKERS’ Ja’Nay Hawkins about the influence of the Black Lives Matter movement on her teams, the company’s boardroom and the advertising industry. Crampsie has implemented the first Black sponsorship program at Ogilvy and introduced a justice and brand accountability checklist to help clients recognize their privileges. “Know that you have people around you that are already doing this work, have been doing this work, and now they just need us to get out of the way and stand behind them and push them forward.”
Video Transcript
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Hey! We did it!
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: We are good at this.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Oh, we do look good in this. This is good. Well, let me let the people know who we are. Let me let the people know. Hi, everyone. I am Ja'Nay Hawkins. I'm the head of partnerships for MAKERS, and I'm so excited today to be talking to the president of New York Ogilvy, one of our MAKERS@ Board members, a vet in the game. She has years and years of experience with advertising and marketing.
And she's a truth teller, you know, a good troublemaker. I'm so excited that she's a badass and is standing in the gap for people that are oppressed, and so this conversation is going to be great. Welcome, Lauren Crampsie.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Thank you, Ja'Nay.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Hey, girl.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: All a lie except for the part that I tell the truth and that I'm trying to be in the [INAUDIBLE] game as best as I can right now.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: I cannot with you. It's all the truth. It's the truth.
Listen. You know, people are probably wondering-- we're having diversity and inclusion conversations. We're continuing this, people. They're probably wondering why are we having this conversation, right? You're in marketing and advertising. So let the people know your why and what happened in your career or personally to get you to a point of, you know, being in the trenches with people of color. Why? Why are you so much of an advocate for diversity and inclusion?
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah. So, look, I think-- and the way I talk about this is this is not a social issue. It's not a moral issue. This isn't, you know, being an idealist as a leader. It's a business imperative.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yep.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: It's about the streets for a lot of people, and it should be about the streets, and the streets are great, and we need the streets. But for me, it's also about the boardroom. It's [INAUDIBLE] sure that every single client that I have, every single brand in the world, every single company understands if you do not have your reckoning and you do not understand that a diverse workforce means or should make an inclusive environment which should make and will make your business grow, you will cease to exist in a year or two years. And I say the same thing about Ogilvy, my own company. If we do not get this right, we will cease to exist as well. So it is absolutely a business imperative first and foremost for me.
And then how I got to this point-- I had a reckoning, and I'm still having it. I'm still having it. And it happened after George Floyd was murdered, like it did for most white women and men. But it took a lot of people, Black employees in particular, coming forward and telling their stories in an effort to educate people like me on what has been brainwashed in us for so long, which is that slavery and oppression is something that happened a long time ago that we may or may not know about from movies but we certainly don't learn about in schools, and we certainly don't have memorials to go to where we did [INAUDIBLE] until, yeah, EJI gave-- and Bryan Stevenson gave one for us to go to.
But it was-- we've all been-- we haven't been taught-- you talk about truth. We haven't been taught the truth. And that's really what did it for me. And then I've been on on this journey ever since. And it's not easy, but it has to be done. And I certainly know that I cannot rely on my Black allies and colleagues to do this journey for me.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right. And it's something that is personal for you, right? One of my favorite stories to share that you shared over the summer is your eight-year-old son, who I love and I have to meet him and give him a hug for this-- on his birthday, which so happened to be on Juneteenth--
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: --there was a, you know, virtual celebration with his classmates and his teacher. And he said and was confirming, you know, today is the day that the slaves were freed.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yep.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: And I remember being eight, and we were not, you know, having those conversations. I was probably but not my classmates. And so how did you get to a point of having that tough conversation with an eight-year-old and then him, you know, standing in that, right, and saying that on a Zoom call? That's pretty powerful.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah. I mean, he is-- he's an amazing kid, as all moms feel about their kids. He's very sensitive, and I think when you're a young boy and you have sensitivity about you, it just leads to empathy as a young-- as a young boy, as he is.
And he asked because his birthday coincided, of course, with a lot of the protests.
There was a protest in Bridgehampton, where I'm at right now, which I attended, and I was telling him about the protest, and then I explained to him the reality of things that he has not learned and things that are left out of the history books like slavery, like mass incarceration, and stories like Emmett Till and Breonna Taylor and then, you know, unfortunately the latest with George Floyd.
And I also told him the great thing about that is, you know, you might have your own mission because you were born on Juneteenth, and he-- you know, he thought it was cool, you know, and not in a-- you know, in a way that would, you know, diminish anything-- in a way that gave him purpose in that moment, and it gave him purpose in that virtual celebration.
[INAUDIBLE] celebration is all the kids go around and they say something nice about the kid whose birthday it is. And Drake, my son, said I don't want anyone to say anything nice about me. I want to talk about the slaves because they were freed today on my birthday.
And what I told you at the time was the teacher had a look of such fear when he said the word slave. And I saw it, and I wouldn't have [INAUDIBLE] it before, right? And I saw it, and it was just another moment that made me realize how real this blinding is and how real this pushing out and down the truth of what has happened to Black people in this country, to the fact that-- she didn't even say the word slave. My son said it.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: But she reacted in a way where she did not know what to do with it. She did not know if it was OK to talk about it. She did not know if she should continue on what he started to say. She didn't know if she was going to get questions from other kids, and then how would she going to-- how am I going to talk about slavery?
I mean, this is real.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: This whitewashing is real, and it's in our schools. This is a public school, and it's in New York. You know, and we think about New York as being the melting pot. We think about New York as being this place of, you know, Utopian equality and equity, and we know that it's not. And we certainly know that it's not when a young white kid brings up slavery and a white teacher doesn't know what to do with the word.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: And what happened after that? Because you said something to the teacher, right?
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: I did, and I said-- you know, I said it's OK. Let me tell-- let me tell the students what Juneteenth is. And I told the students, and, you know, we-- there were some questions, but, you know, at this point you're 15 minutes into the daily Zoom, and half the kids are, you know, outside playing in traffic or whatever our kids were doing by June.
But I wrote her a note afterwards, and I just said, you know, I hope that that was OK that I did that, and I also hope that you and Ronnie, who's the principal, understand that, you know, it's OK to talk about this. In fact, it's your duty to talk about this because this is about a moment in time. This is about a moment that will propel society forward, propel education forward, propel our children forward.
We as a country have done so many things wrong, even throughout, you know, the pandemic, medical pandemic. We can't get this wrong. So it's-- again, it's just continuing. Every day, it's another step, you know, in the right direction or off course because that's the other reality of this journey. It's not a sprint. And it's not [INAUDIBLE], and it's not about how do I just get through September because then people will stop talking about it? It's how do I get through every single day moving from, you know, allyship to accompliceship? And you don't always get everything right as a white woman.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: That's a great segue, and I want to thank you for that because I've-- you know, you and I have had this conversation, and I get so ticked off when I see all of these leaders donating to historically Black colleges and universities, and Black banks and the Black community and having all these statements about what they're going to do for people of color, and particularly over this summer, Black lives.
But the action really starts at home, and so you doing that with your son is really powerful, right, because he is going to be a leader one day, and his actions that he learned at home from you and his parents is really paramount in how the world is going to change. So thank you, and I tell you this all the time.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: No, [INAUDIBLE].
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Those actions, you know, they're very expressive and characteristics of somebody, to your point, who's an accomplice, right, and a sponsor. And when I say sponsor, I mean someone who is in highly guarded and exclusive rooms making an impact and making decisions on behalf of people who are oppressed or marginalized, and you've done that.
And so I want to talk a little bit about the impact and work you're doing with the Oregon Justice Resource Fund-- who, you know, are making waves in the oppressed communities and marginalized communities for legal representation when they wouldn't have otherwise had them, right, and civil rights-- and then your involvement in the first Black sponsorship program at Ogilvy, which a lot of your work is informing the work we're doing with MAKERS and all of your fellow board members as we are creating our own sponsorship program. So talk about those two things a little bit.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah, I mean, I'm a big advocate of Bryan Stevenson and [? NEJI. ?] And, in fact, before COVID, I was meant to take my leadership team in New York to the lynching fields that he recently established. I mean, it's insane that we [INAUDIBLE] no monument for slavery before he went to task to make one happen in Montgomery. So we were going to visit the initiative and then to the center, and it turned out COVID happened and we couldn't go.
At the time, I thought I was, like, so progressive that I was going to take my leadership team to this-- you know, to this area of the country that most of them had never been, you know, and showed them this, and it was going to be transformative to them. But now, you know, looking back, it's like, no. What the hell was I thinking? They're all white. I had one black guy. Oh, and even worse, I was going to have him do, like, the speech, the opening speech, right?
So you look back on these things and you realize how stupid you were at the time and how much tokenism exists not only in people but in process and in experience, right? So the idea of tokenism, it isn't just limited to, you know, a seat, right? Like, it isn't just, like, you know, limited to making sure that, like, this seat is filled with the right person.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: It's also about you can have tokenism in experiences. Oh, if I take my team, you know, to experience the Equal Justice Initiative, then they're all going to get it, you know? And no, it has to be constant. The experiences have to be constant, and they have to be inside and outside of work.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And the Oregon Resource Center-- the Justice Center is a recent organization that I took some hours. Part of the actions that we did as a company was give our employees 24 hours of community service as a--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: And this is recent?
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: [INAUDIBLE] This is recent, yeah-- free-- you know, obviously paid community service, ideally working with, you know, organizations that help-- that help the oppressed and specifically Black and Indigenous people.
And I said to myself if I don't take these hours for myself now and model the behavior that I not only want our employees to have but expect them to have--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --then they'll never think that it's real, right, because organizations can't pop out of the cake and say one day, oh, guess what, guys? We care about the community--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --when they hadn't been saying that for the, you know, hundred years that they've been in existence. So I knew that I had to give my people permission to do it. And, yeah, it was right after the protests in Portland.
And, you know, frankly, to be candid with this group of 30 eyes-- if there was more, I probably would feel like I couldn't be as candid. We have worked with the Customs and Border Patrol before as a company. And knowing that it was those individuals who, in some way, were part of those protests and of attacking the people in those protests, it was my way of just taking a beat, taking a day, shutting down, and helping the wall of moms and helping the minorities in Portland who are dealing with, you know, what all minorities have dealt with since--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --the 19th century-- mass incarceration, oppression, bad health care, low-income housing, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So it was a bit of a silent protest. It was a bit of a modeling behavior for my people, but it was a great way to remind myself that I'm in this for the business--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yes.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --but I'm also in this because it became personal to me.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And I do believe as leaders, we will never get there. We will never be able to truly engage in the way that we need to unless it becomes personal.
And like I said, you know, before, it doesn't mean you're going to get it right every time. I shared with Ja'Nay two days ago that I just announced that I hired two white men to be my creative partners in New York. The decision was made before my reckoning or the start of my reckoning. I do not believe in taking offers away from people.
But suffice to say I sat-- and Ja'Nay knows this because she's the one I call in these moments. I sat in great pain over the fact that I was going to disappoint the people that I am trying to advance. And, you know, I-- it's hard. It's very hard, and it's-- I say that because I don't want anyone who's listening and watching to think that, you know, I'm doing everything right. I'm not. I'm not even close to be doing everything right. I'm doing what I can. I'm doing the best I can, and I'm trying to be as honest as I can be with myself, with my family, you know, with my people, with MAKERS, you know, and that's all we can do as white leaders right now.
But, you know, make no mistake. One missed action, right, demands three actions of meaning. Two missed actions--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --demands six actions of meaning. So I'm keeping score for myself, and I know that, like, the hiring of two white men-- yes, they're from Brazil. For those people that don't understand diversity, like Brazil, you know, and diversity, not the same thing.
But that-- it demands three accelerated actions. And I know that, and, you know, I'll keep moving, and I'll keep acting the way that I need to to, you know, further the journey.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: And you have some Ogilvy folks in here commending you for your empathy and your leadership, so shoutout to Ogilvy, who's been a partner with MAKERS forever. Thank you, guys.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Thank you.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Wow. And that was really, again, powerful and how, you know, the vulnerability which you share with us weekly, right, on our MAKERS at board calls and with me.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: I like that you see it as vulnerability, Ja'Nay. I see it as like anger-- I mean, I don't have Tiff's on, but it's like-- she knows too. I see it as, like, anger, ranting. Sometimes the rage is eloquent-- sometimes. I give myself, like, a 5 out of 10 for eloquent rage. Most of the time it's just rage. [LAUGHS]
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Which I love, which is why usually when we talk I'm just laughing the whole time because I cannot believe how honest you are, and it's really-- it's the stuff that we think but no one says, and you have the bravery to say it all the time.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah, Gloria Steinem, our dear MAKERS friend, you know, once said "the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Amen.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And I think that's why so many people have a hard time with truth because the truth is uncomfortable. It sucks. It is. It will piss you off, either because something was done to you or you did something or, you know, whatever the case may be.
But I fundamentally believe, particularly in this business, it's all we got, right? Like, we go to bed at night. All we got is our truth here. That's all we got. This is-- this goes, guys.
I don't know if anyone's noticed. Maybe there's a bunch of young people watching right now because it is Instagram, but this-- the older you get, this goes and goes and goes and goes. This does not.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And, you know, as long as I keep telling my truth-- and I will-- like, at least, you know, that's what helps me go to bed at night.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Oh. I just had to take a moment and receive that. That was-- thank you. I appreciate that, but you're right. The mind does go, not the heart.
And so we were talking about this yesterday. I was looking at the Ogilvy Twitter account and noticed they had just done brand accountability checklist. What is that? I was so intrigued by it.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah, so there's a team of people-- and I see some of them, I think, are on the-- are on the Live, Ja'Nay. But there's a team of people that came together and decided, you know, we need to not only practice what we preach but we need to help our clients and brands everywhere understand how to go through their own reckoning. And how do we use what we're going through right now as an agency-- and again, yes, hi, Jude, Jude who helped with the papers on. How do we as a company that knows that we're not getting everything right but knows that we're on a journey, how do we give back, right? How do we pay it forward? How do we help our clients and, again, brands everywhere with this journey?
And it's why we wrote the paper. It was meant to be a very simple checklist that brands can use to know whether or not they're ready for the next step. Some brands will read step one and realize they're at step zero. And that's fine, but the reason why we wrote the paper is because we do not want brands in the world going immediately to step six because their privilege will set back the oppressed even further. And brands have privilege just like I have privilege.
So how do we make sure that brands know where in the journey they are and how to get to where they need to be? And, you know, kudos to the team because they really-- they really thought a lot about this, and they didn't just, you know, pull a six-step checklist together. This was truly a labor of love, and it was a diverse group of people that came together-- diversity of race and also diversity of discipline in terms of departments where they worked.
And it was really about this idea of taking brands from equality to equity, because that's a-- that's a-- that's a journey. And, again, diversity to inclusivity. But, yeah, it was really about us understanding that brands have privilege. So brands have to check their privilege just like I have to check mine.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right. Right. And really quick before someone just asked about the response from the Black sponsorship program at Ogilvy. How is it going?
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yes. Sorry. Good. You asked me about that earlier. So there's-- I think I saw Sherina in here as well. Sherina Florence, who's a creative director at Ogilvy, she had said something to me that really resonated in my heart. And whenever anything resonates in my heart, you can best believe it's going to be executed.
And she said to me, Lauren, Black employees deserve sponsorship before anybody else. We deserve it. And it stayed with me, and I immediately implemented the sponsorship program. And it was hard because ain't a lot of people ready to be sponsors to Black employees.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: [INAUDIBLE]
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: So what I started-- what we started with was we did a parallel path where I had my head of HR interview each employee that opted in because, you know, we made sure that it was an opt in. Not everyone has to do it. Some people don't want sponsors, and that's fine. We just-- you know, it's our duty to make the gesture, right?
So she interviewed each employee to know what they want to get out of it.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: OK.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: When you have privilege, you think that everyone wants what you want. You think that every Black person just wants career advancement because that's what you want, right?
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yep.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Not true. Not true.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Nope. It's not.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Some people want it, but some people just want exposure. Some people just want to learn something different.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Some people just want to be left the hell alone and stop doing D&I calls and uncomfortable conversations because they're sick of peeling back the onion and they're sick of losing their safe space, which in some cases is work, right?
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: So that part was so important to just understand what each individual--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --each individual wanted out of it.
And then we parallel pathed that with I made all of the sponsors-- and they're all white. I made them do antiracism training, and that was the training that we did with Judy Jackson at WPP and LCW. I thought it was a fantastic training. But anyone that is going to be a sponsor has to go through, you know, a conversation with me and antiracism training and microaggression training before we can even have the conversation of them being sponsors.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: How long are those trainings?
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: It was about three hours--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: OK.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --the antiracism training. Microaggression, we're rolling out-- Donna Pedro, our head of diversity, is rolling out a new one. I'm not quite sure how long it is. But, yeah, I didn't want to hold up the process starting, Ja'Nay. So it was sort of like--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --what do I know at minimum has to be done? And then I tried to be very mindful about picking people that I felt were part of-- were part of a reckoning of their own, right?
JA'NAY HAWKINS: OK.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And then right now we're actually in the middle of doing the matching. And the beauty of this is because we know what each individual employee wants to get out of their sponsor, it's a lot easier for us to be objective and not subjective about matching.
And then we're making it very clear, this is not about high-potential people. And I say that because it is about every single Black employee that we have right now in the company, because we have so few, is high potential and needs an accelerated path to the top or to wherever they want to be.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And this idea of high potential, again, it's meant to whitewash organizations--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --into promoting the wrong people because by virtue of being white and a man, you're automatically high potential. Then after MeToo, if you're a white woman, you're automatically high potential, and not just that. You have about 55 programs just for you--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --because you may or may not have been touched or spoken to inappropriately or whatever, right? And I'm not-- I'm not trying to diminish that because that's a very serious thing, but my point is we never took Black and brown women and men along with us through all this-- through all of MeToo, and that's why they never ended up in any high-potential programs, right, because it's not about high potential. It's about black employees right now have the highest potential to make us continue to exist as a business, full stop.
So what are we doing for them? We're giving them sponsors. We're, you know, giving them-- we're making sure their voices are heard. We're giving them more people that look like them at all layers of the company. And that's-- you know, that's what it's all about right now for me.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: People are loving this. So, you know, lastly-- because if you can believe it or not, we're almost 30 minutes in. That's crazy.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: I knew it would go quick.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Love this. I could talk to you forever.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: I know, but we always say this. Like, we always say that we should just, like-- we should just, like, rent a cabin somewhere for, like, five days, get it all out of our system, and then we'll be able to do this easier.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah, our MAKERS@ Board will at some point next year when the world comes back up, when we have our retreat. So what do you ultimately want to convey to the world and people to know about your work? That's one. And then two, what is your hope for the future of marketing and advertising?
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah. So I want any and every client, CEO, leader listening or tweeting or reading or anything to understand that this is not about a sustainability initiative. This is not about a social initiative. It is a business imperative. If you do not get this right and you do not understand that you have a 90% chance right now of cultivating a workforce of privilege which will continue to oppress the oppressed, your business will cease to exist.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Wow.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And the statistics are there. Like, call your head of research. Call your head of analyst relations. Call your head of investor relations that works directly with your board and your shareholders. Look at the changing face of the consumer. Look at the fact that the consumer will be majority Black and Hispanic by 2040. Go to code2040.org. Your consumer is going to look completely different from you very soon.
If you do not have people in your stores, in your boardroom, at your table that don't reflect that consumer, you might as well pack up and go home now.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Ooh, preach, Lauren.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: So that's what I want, like, from a work perspective. That's what I want leaders to know.
From a personal perspective, I believe, you know, every man and woman on this earth has a calling. And I'm not a religious person by any means, but I believe in spiritual meaning, and I believe in purpose. I do not know yet if this is my calling. It's too soon to tell, and I am not that egotistical, and I know my privilege. So I will not say that this is my calling because I do not know.
But from where I sit right now today at 12:30, you know, Eastern Time, it's my calling right now, and I'm going to keep doing it as best as I can until someone tells me to stop.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Oh wow. I just-- I love you. You know that.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: I love you. I love you.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: All of those conversations that we have on Live, board calls, or just you and I, I'm always more fool and learn so much from you. And I'll say it again, your vulnerability and your empathy and your leadership, and thank you.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Thank you.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: This was [INAUDIBLE]. People are loving this conversation. They're saying you preaching, speak. Amy [? Lane ?] is, like, in here, and she has a bad connection, but she's in the comments.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: I'm very reachable for anyone that wants to talk more about this. And look, I think this is tough stuff.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: You know, any Black or brown woman or man, you know, in this right now knows it.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: It's tough. But the first step--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: But it makes [INAUDIBLE] so much sweeter to have people like you that do not look like us helping carry this load. It really does.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Yeah. No, and that's what I'm here to do. And, you know, Tiff-- another thing that always stuck with me, Tiff Warren once said to me, like, it's not always about getting in the driver's seat. Sometimes it's about getting the fuck out of the way--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --and let the people that have started this work a long time ago--
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yes.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: --do it and finally have it be heard and recognized. And I think that's the other thing to say. And we didn't talk about this, Ja'Nay, but I'll say it anyway. Like, know that there are people that have been doing this a long time. They have been fighting every-- they have been fighting every-- Black people, not white people, Black people-- every single day in our business, in our industry, in advertising and marketing to further this agenda. And it's not easy to be that person and have a white person stand up and everyone hoot and holler because, you know, oh, the white person finally got it.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Yeah.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: Like, that is tough shit. I would not be here if it wasn't for people like Tiffany Warren and Ja'Nay. So know that before you try to start something new at your company that's like a new fund or a new, you know, recognizing diversity or interns-- let's work with colleges. Let's get interns in here. Like, know that you have people around you that are already doing this work, have been doing this work, and now they just need us to get out of the way and stand behind them and push them forward.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Right.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And that's another thing that everyone needs to be mindful of. Sorry.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: No. Don't apologize. People needed to hear that. Thank you. You are a blessing in my life, and I appreciate you so much.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: And you are a blessing in mine, and I love you, and I love Dyllan and the whole MAKERS board and everyone from Ogilvy who's on the chat. I love you all. Thank you.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Thank you. Talk to you later.
LAUREN CRAMPSIE: OK, Bye. Bye.
JA'NAY HAWKINS: Oh, thank you. Oh, I am-- I'm so privileged and full right now of thinking of the work that I get to do to have these diversity, equity, inclusion conversations, and I implore all of you to be badasses in your own right and stand in the gap and fight for people that are marginalized and oppressed.
Thank you so much for joining in, and I'm wishing you peace, love, and light, child. Thank you. Bye.
