Deborah Ayorinde Talks "Riches," "Them" Season 2, Working With Pam Grier, And Why She Hates The Term "Trauma Porn"
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To celebrate the release of her new Prime Video family drama Riches, I chatted with the series star, Deborah Ayorinde, to discuss what it took to bring the show to life, why she purposely highlights Black stories, Them Season 2, adopting Pam Grier as her unofficial auntie, why she hates the term "trauma porn," and so much more.
Whether you know Deborah from her diverse roles, can't get enough of her red carpet style, or are just looking for a new celebrity obsession, this interview's for you!
1.How did you hear about Riches? And what initially attracted you to the role of Nina Richards?
My agent got the script, because it was kind of making its rounds, and they were looking for a lead. I got sent the script and I was in love with it, because Nina's story is very similar to mine — you know, being born in London, moving to America, moving back, having a little bit of family drama...and so I fell in love with this story. Also, I knew it was a portrayal of Black people out of the UK that I hadn't seen before in my life. So I was like, "Where do I sign up?" So, I told them I was interested, they set up a meeting with creator Abby Ajayi, and the rest is history.
2.Was there any research done to prepare for this role?
Not really, but for every single role that I do, I try to create a playlist. So, it wasn't really hard to because I feel like, again, the character is so similar to me that I pretty much used a lot of the playlists that I already had. One thing I did is look at old journal entries of mine. Like just really talk to my mom, especially about moving to America and, like, certain things — memories that I actually even forgot. I'm just kind of really just jogging my memory about how it felt that day. I never forgot it. But just like, you know, that for me was my prep, but it didn't take me — Nina is not very far removed from me. So it wasn't like a long, tedious process to get into.
Can you tell me one song that was on the playlist?
She's a grown-ass woman [laughs]. So they are very good for grown up time. So, I don't know if I should share those songs.
3.We can use our imagination! Earlier, you mentioned the similarities between your Riches character and your real life and I noticed that likeness too, especially when it comes to your cultural upbringing and you and your family moving from London to America. Were you able to draw inspiration from your personal life and transfer that into your character?
Oh, much more inspiration than I've ever had in my years of doing this professionally. Honestly, this character's story is the closest to my story that I've ever played. Yeah, she has some differences, but a lot of it's the same — the feelings are definitely the same. The longing for belonging, trying to figure out where you fit in and with whom — that, for me, is a big thing that can come from being plucked from the place you know to a place you don't really know, and being a part of different groups.
It's a bit like, "Okay, I fit in, but I don't really." That could happen from someone moving from state to state. Being a part of different cultures like that can really make someone feel out of place also. But it can turn into a beautiful thing, where you become almost like a translator. There's so many things about Nina that I really just felt like, "Oh, I know this girl. She is me."
4.I love that the nostalgia factor was there for you. I know you moved from London, but I'm not sure if you moved back. Were you able to show your cast members places that were special to you in your hometown?
Well, the crazy part is my first day of filming was actually my year anniversary of moving back to London. My year anniversary, I was on set. I put it in my calendar, because it was just such a moment for me. Because when we left, we didn't have much. My mom scraped together what she could and we moved, and we stayed with my uncle. She really worked hard to get us to a certain place, and then to come back in this space, I was like, "God is so good." I really put that date down in my calendar and then a year later, I'm playing this role.
And, yes, even though most of them have been living in London for most of their lives, I have been able to show them some very fabulous places in London. I've made them even more bourgeois.
Shout out to Black moms, because they will get it done every time!
Yes!
5.What was your favorite behind-the-scenes moment from set?
Oh my god, to be honest, any scene where the whole gang is together! Even if it's a scene where we're supposed to be at odds, behind the scenes, we're like a whole party. We hang out with each other, dancing and laughing, and all that stuff. It looks very serious when you watch it, but behind the scenes, we were having the greatest time ever, to be honest. Yeah, so any Sema, we're all together, to be honest, was just, yeah, vibes all around.
6.I love that you all felt like a real family, even when the cameras weren't rolling. Did you and the rest of the cast get together off set to help build your chemistry on set?
We have a whole group chat! Oh, that was the first order of business [laughs]. We also try to hang out often, outside of everything. We went to dinner sometimes, as our schedules allowed, obviously. Beyond us working together, they're genuinely my friends. It feels like going to work and working with your friends. When I was back in London doing press recently, we went to a basketball game. It was fun!
7.If you had to pick a favorite scene or episode from this series, which would it be and why?
Look out for the gala sequence! Yeah, that whole sequence, just because I feel like we all look really, really good. We all look really fabulous. The affluence is on 10! It really emphasizes the fact that this is really not a way we've seen Black people out of the UK. And they're not fazed by their own wealth either, it's just another thing that they have. For them, it's like, "This is what we do and this is who we are." I just love that. I love that for us.
8.Describe Riches in three words.
Opulence. Fabulousness. Nasty!
9.What are you hoping fans take away from Riches?
The representation. Nina and Simon represent a bit of America, but obviously, like, this is about family out of the UK. We had a screening in New York and if I tell you the amount of people in New York that came up to us...the Americans that came up to us who told us, "Thank you, I feel so represented!" That, for me, especially given my upbringing, having lived in London and moving to America, and kind of having the beauty and privilege to experience the Black experience from different angles...
The fact that Black people in America felt represented by Black people in the UK, for me, mending that gap was everything. I'm all for us being united and us seeing ourselves through each other, and us respecting our differences but also celebrating the fact that we, at some point, had the same blood running through our veins. I was like, "You're gonna make me cry, walk away!" So yeah, that was really beautiful.
10.I love that! Okay, so now I want to switch gears to another Amazon series you're working on, Season 2 of the horror anthology Them. This season, it’s set in the early '90s and you play an LAPD detective. With countless stories of police brutality in the news and the rise of Black Lives Matter, was there special significance behind making your character a cop?
There were so many things going on in the '90s, especially in LA, as far as — I'll call it Black Lives Matter, because I think that that's what people were trying to say, but they hadn't come up with the phrase yet. There were a lot of things happening at the time, like the Rodney King beating and the riots that followed. The '90s were a very interesting time. I think the beautiful thing is you'll get to see a lot of the effects of the things that were happening. First season was set in the '40s and '50s, you get to see a lot of the after effects of that, which will then make you kind of think because it's in the '90s, it's not so far removed.
With last season, a lot of people came up to me and told me that their grandmother was there and someone was even like, "Oh my God, that's my story!" Now, a lot of people were like, "Oh, crap! I was there." I hope it will really make people think, "Oh, wow! That's what that caused." Do you get what I'm saying? This season will explain a lot of things. It will bring up a lot of questions. When I had that meeting with creator Little Marvin about what he wanted to do and the fact that he wanted me to lead it again, in a whole different character, I was just speechless. The way that he connected his mind — he's genius. He's somewhere else. He's like light years ahead of us mere mortals. But yeah, people are really gonna appreciate this one.
11.That's so powerful. I'm a '90s baby, so I'm very familiar with the emotional and cultural impact the horrific LAPD Rodney King incident had on America, specifically Black Americans. It will be interesting to see which themes you touch on this season. Has filming begun?
Yeah. We're actually kind of in the home stretch right now. That's why I'm in America now. Yeah. It's been so wonderful.
12.This season will also feature big names like legendary actor Pam Grier, Grammy-nominated artist Luke James, and NBA champ Iman Shumpert. Tell me what it was like working with this new cast. I know there were jokes on set.
Pam Grier is my auntie forever! She is so sweet, nurturing, and so funny. What makes me laugh about her is the fact that, like, pick any person that was alive back in the day, and she has a story about them. She knows everyone and everyone knows her. She's lived so many different lives. Sometimes I love just sitting at her feet and just listening to her, to be honest. It's so wonderful. She's just so kind and she gives great hugs.
And Luke and Iman, those are my guys! Luke actually just texted me right now. With a project like this, if you're not working with the right people, it can really be hard and heavy. Even in Season 1, I was blessed with such a great group of people, and this time is no different. Not only just Iman, Luke, and Pam, but also the rest of the cast and crew. I was just telling my friend the other day about how blessed I feel, because if they were assholes, it would be really hard [laughs]. But they're such good people. There were so many laughs. They lightened it for me. It's been amazing.
You're holding so much on your shoulders already as the lead, so when you're surrounded with great people, even with Riches, it lightens that load.
13.That is so true! With every job, your coworkers can definitely influence the experiences you have. I’ve noticed a lot of the projects you attach yourself to highlight Black stories and the Black experience, and I love that. There were some critics who referred to Season 1 of Them as Black trauma porn. How do you feel about criticism like that and where do you draw the line between trauma porn and mirroring horrific realities?
I hate that term "trauma porn." It's so icky for me, because who in the world gets off on something like that? I think, for me, the way that I pick any role is if it's grounded in truth. I'm all for diverse representation of us as Black people. So, if you've looked at my body of work, you know that my roles go from A to Z. They talk about the Black experience, because I am Black, but I play everything from a nurse to a side chick in Girls Trip. People don't recognize me for just one role, because I've done so many different roles, and that has been on purpose to show that we are not one thing. For me, I try to do roles that talk about our fun ridiculousness, drama, family drama, as well as the real issues going on in our community. It's important to have both. I'm all for intelligent critiques, but that's not something that I take in personally, because I know what I have done and what I continue to do.
I don't think people realize how smart Little Marvin is. He makes sure that every single bit of the story is real. Even though it's a fictional story, it's real. It's grounded in truth. I have had projects come across my desk, that speak about our pain, but in ways that don't feel very grounded in truth — they don't really see us from the human experience, if that makes sense. And those roles I pass up very quickly. I'm very, very particular, and I will continue to be because I'm very protective over my portrayals of my representation of us on screen. Especially when it comes to portrayals of Black women — I don't take that lightly.
The sad thing is that we're still going through a lot of things that happen in this series. We're still dealing with the after effects of them. So, if we stop talking about it, then what happens? We can't heal what we don't acknowledge. We would love to see a day where we don't have to talk about certain things anymore.
14.Whew, you just said a word! And I agree. These stories didn't just happen in our community. They're STILL happening in our community. Why are stories like this still needed?
I saw some reviews and I saw that there were some Black people who I could tell felt very triggered, you know, saying and very, like, almost like it was hard to watch. And that, for me, I have grace for. I completely understand there's certain things that I've been through in life or that I've witnessed in life that has left me triggered by certain projects. It's not that it's not a great project, it's not that it's not true, it's not that there's anything wrong with the project, it's really just because I'm still healing. So, that I understand and I have grace. But when people who haven't even watched the show try to come for it and try to shut us up, I just don't like it.
15.Speaking of the Black experience, you graduated with honors from Howard University (and won awards). Why was it important for you to attend an HBCU?
A lot of people try to say that HBCUs don’t prepare their students for the world, but that is a huge lie and the lie of that is evidenced by the plethora of extremely successful HBCU alumni doing amazing things in the world. Howard built up my confidence and my drive and my grit. It taught me to not just work hard but to work smart. It taught me to go the extra mile in everything I do. It taught me to network laterally. It taught me so many things that prepared me for where I am now and where I’m going.
16.What’s the first app you check in the morning?
The YouVersion Bible app.
17.When’s the last time someone left you star struck?
I don’t know that I’ve ever been star stuck, to be honest. I think when I meet Jill Scott and Erykah Badu, I’ll be star struck.
18.What’s one role fans would be surprised to hear you auditioned for but didn't get?
[Laughs] I’m not going to say because the person who got the role was also really good for it. It was a matter of the direction they wanted to go in.
19.What’s the last TV show you binge-watched?
Riches, to be honest. And that’s a big deal because I usually don’t watch my work as many times as I’ve watched Riches, but I really enjoy the show. When I watch, I forget I’m watching myself.
20.If you’re preparing for a girls night out, which three songs are you playing while getting ready?
"Persuasive" by Doechii, "Bloody Samaritan" by Ayra Starr, and "Peace of Mind" by Skepta.
21.If you could guest-star on any show — currently airing or not — which one would it be?
It’s between The Crown, Ramy, Atlanta, or Luther.
22.Have you ever taken any props home from set?
No, but I may or may not have been gifted some clothes from set.
23.Which actor is on your bucket list to work with and what would that dream project look like?
First ones that come to mind are Viola Davis, Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Meryl Streep. I don’t know what the project would be, but it would be iconic.
24.What meal could you eat for a week straight and not get tired of it?
Curry goat, rice and peas, and plantain. I’m mainly pescatarian, but I would risk it all for this meal.
25.What’s your favorite thing to do between takes on set?
If we’re on the stages or at the studios, I’ll try to take walks to get my steps in. It’s very easy to not be active when you’re working on a project, but I try to stay active and moving.
26.Was there a movie or TV show that inspired you to become an actor?
To be honest, old school Nollywood films inspired me a lot. I grew up watching them. Whenever family members would go to Nigeria and ask me what I wanted them to bring back, I would tell them to bring back Nollywood movies and they would come back with a bunch of VHS tapes or DVDs. I didn’t realize it until recently, but a big part of why I loved them so much is because I was able to truly see myself represented in a way that I didn’t when I watched shows and films out of the US and UK.
27.Describe a perfect day.
The sun is shining and the sky is a perfect blue. The weather is perfect, not too hot or too cold. I have the day free so I sleep in and wake up at 10:30 (I’m usually an early riser). I dress up in an incredible outfit and am having an amazing hair and makeup day. I go to a really cute brunch with my friends. We go from there to a really great concert or dope live music spot. From there, we just let the night take us where it takes us. That would be a perfect day/night.
