‘Succession’: How Dagmara Domińczyk’s Karolina Became Stealth MVP
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In the insular, rarefied world of Succession, there are a few girl bosses who reign supreme. There’s Shiv (Sarah Snook), the hyper-ambitious Roy sibling with a knack for silencing sexual misconduct victims and wearing cream-colored sheaths from quiet luxury brands. There’s Gerri (J. Smith-Cameron), the corporate lawyer GILF who moonlights as a surrogate mommy (in both the metaphorical and BDSM senses of the word) for Roman (Kieran Culkin). And there’s Kerry (Zoe Winters), Logan’s assistant-cum-mistress, though she was taken down a few pegs after her embarrassingly stilted ATN anchor audition went viral (girl, only Regina King can pull off an Oscar de la Renta magenta power suit).
Over the past few nail-biting episodes of the fourth and final season, however, a new potential female successor to Logan Roy’s empire has emerged: Karolina Novotney, the soft-spoken publicist played by Dagmara Domińczyk (The Lost Daughter, Boardwalk Empire). Armed with a smart phone for bullying nosy journalists and a killer chestnut bob, Karolina is the picture of white-collar competence, constantly keeping her cool when faced with various cataclysmic PR events such as a major FBI investigation into corporate cover-ups, or Roy scion Kendall (Jeremy Strong) going rogue at a press conference. Through it all, she’s largely maintained a cool yet unassuming air, remaining in the background of the Roy siblings’ lives — until (spoiler alert) Logan croaks on an airplane en route to closing a major deal, prompting Karolina to step up and take control in a way we’ve never seen before as the male executives around her fall apart.
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As the fourth season unfolds and the battle over who will succeed Logan comes into sharper focus, for the first time Karolina has been viewed as a potential frontrunner, with Succession fans tweeting memes attesting to her strength and competence. At the same time, Domińczyk herself has been hard at work: she’s on the Apple TV+ show Hello, Tomorrow! with Billy Crudup, and she just shot a Southern Gothic-inspired film called Miller’s Girl with Martin Freeman and Jenna Ortega, where she plays a chain-smoking, alcoholic writer married to Freeman’s character. Rolling Stone caught up with Domińczyk to talk about her breakout moment, her very personal relationship to Logan Roy’s storyline, and who sends the most memes on the Succession group thread.
This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
Could you start by telling me what your audition for Karolina was like?
Oh my gosh, it feels like it was so, so long ago. It was actually a monologue that was never in an intended script. But I think they wanted to see someone exude no-nonsense strength, a little sass, and restraint as well. I remember it was this monologue where she’s talking to someone and being very direct and brusque and businesslike. Maybe Jesse [Armstrong, the creator of Succession] wrote it, I don’t know who wrote it. She was talking to someone, I don’t remember who, basically being a boss, like, “Get this shit done.” I do remember going, “I think I can do this. I guess I can do this.” I’m more of, like, a hippie in my real life. You’ll never catch me in a blazer or heels, really, unless I have to. So I thought, “Hmm, interesting choice.” But I was very, very happy to get it.
Do you remember how the role was described at first?
Yes, she was head of PR for this giant company, working very closely with this larger-than-life man. Very, very loyal. Always had a poker face, never got her emotions involved, which is the total opposite of me. Knows just what to say, was always there to clean up and on the sidelines, just watching and observing. It was never about her. And I think that’s mostly true for a lot of PR people. It’s not about them. It’s about how they help their clients present themselves to the world. [She’s] someone important in the world, but it’s not someone who has all eyes on them.
As an actor, you’ve obviously had extensive experience working with publicists. How did your own observations of how the world of PR works make it into the role?
Here’s a fun fact: I never had a publicist until a few years into Succession. I would ask advice and piggyback off my husband [actor Patrick Wilson]’s wonderful, amazing PR person, but I never thought I needed one. And it was only until I got a few years into Succession when I got Lost Daughter, the movie Maggie Gyllenhaal directed, and things started to get really exciting and a little bit bigger for me that I thought I needed someone to help me. [PR] people have to be so available. I don’t know how they have families and children. I don’t think Karolina has children at all, maybe some partner somewhere that she takes away on lavish vacations when she has time off to make up for all the times she’s not at home. But it’s a very — I wouldn’t say it’s a thankless job, but you definitely have to have enough confidence in yourself as a human being to know that when it comes to your work, you as a human being don’t really count. You just count in what you can do.
In the third season, there’s a turning point where you decide whether to stick with Kendall or Logan. Did you talk to Jesse about why she made the decision she did?
I thought, “Kendall likes her. She went to Iceland with him when he was going in rehab, he asked her for drugs, he likes her. Maybe she’s going to be part of the new guard.” But then I talked to Jesse and I realized, no. The one word that is bandied about about Karolina, is that she’s loyal. She was still Logan’s person and that’s where she would remain. Here’s something that didn’t make it — when they’re in the back of the car after the press conference, remember where [Kendall] was like, “Are you in or you’re out?,” and he gives her this speech. He’s like, “Do it for your kids.” And I improvised the line, “I don’t have kids. I think you should know that by now.” That was cut. That was a little freebie just to show, like, “You don’t know anything about me and nor do you care.” So she’s gonna go with Logan.
Do you think Karolina is good at her job?
I do. I think she’s good because she’s still there. I think these people have no patience for any kind of mistake — the Roys, they’re not very full of grace or forgiveness. Although we see a lot more, obviously, and you will this season, see a lot more of their vulnerability. Sometimes I would write to Jesse and say, “Wait, wait, why is Karolina in this meeting, but not in this one?” Or, “What is her deal with [smarmy vice president of communications, played by Fisher Stevens] Hugo?” I had questions because I don’t know this world. I would hope she’s good at her job. You know, it’s a very strange season for me.
Why is that?
Because — well, here’s something I haven’t said publicly. But two days before we shot our very last day of Succession in New York City, our very last day, two days before I showed up to set, my own father, who is, I would say, a gentler, kinder Logan Roy, in the fact that he’s been the biggest presence and force in my whole entire life for me and my sisters, this really one-of-a-kind human being, suddenly died at 69. And we found out through a phone call from a person we’d never met. He was in Poland at the time.
I’m so sorry to hear that.
Thank you. It just feels like the universe really — I don’t know the way it works, that the death of Succession and the death of Logan Roy coincided with the death of my fucking amazing, complicated father. I was supposed to work the next day. And obviously the funeral — I’m not even sure if I’m supposed to tell you there is a funeral, but obviously, we’re assuming there is — we shot that a couple of days before my dad died, too. I’m a very emotional person. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I had a hard time not crying on that airplane. This was before my dad died, we shot the episode on the plane. And Mark Mylod [the director of Succession] would come up and say, “Dag, what you’re doing is really beautiful. But Karolina would not [cry.] She’s the the voice of reason here. There’s things to do. This is a giant public figure. Please don’t cry.” And I tried so hard. And I guess I pulled it together because I was watching it the other night —
What was that like, in light of your father’s passing?
It was — what helped me — this is gonna sound kooky and weird, but what helped me was seeing me as Karolina on the plane… I was watching it alone at night with my dog on my husband’s recliner, and I knew what the episode was. My dad died two months ago, but in terms of sudden, traumatic loss, it could have happened two days ago. That’s how I fucking feel. And I started watching the episode, and this vein started throbbing in my head. I thought I was gonna have an aneurysm. And of course, I cried and cried and I thought it was brilliant. The episode was so good and so tense and so amazingly orchestrated and put together, that for a moment, I was able to take myself out of my own grief and just be in the story. But it was really, really, really difficult. And I remember my husband texting me as he was watching like, “Oh fuck, Dag. Oh god, I’m so sorry.” A lot of my friends texted and said, “Holy shit. How bizarre.” But there was Karolina, no nonsense on that plane, knowing with all his health issues and Logan’s troubles and hospital stays that this day would come, and she’s got her fancy pen and her pad ready to go.
Watching me on that plane, I knew how emotional that scene was for me because the kids, Sarah and Kieran and Jeremy, they actually were on speakerphone as we filmed our whole side of it. They would call in every take we did. We were on the stage plane, very intimate, [with] their voices and every time they called in, you know, it was so moving and so fucking weird. For reasons I can’t quite say, since I was a very little girl, I was worried my dad would suddenly die. And it happened. And so it’s just been a really crazy — I’m sorry, this is a Debbie Downer interview, but I wanted to let you know, because I can’t not talk about my dad’s death when talking about this episode, or my role in Succession.
I understand completely. I’m incredibly close with my father, and watching that episode, the same thing was running through my head. And what was so amazing about that episode, is how well it captures grief and how quickly somebody could be lost, within the blink of an eye, better than I think any show ever has. It must have been really difficult for you to watch that.
Yeah. And the shock of it — my dad was 69. We weren’t there and it happened while he was in Poland, with me in New Jersey. I had always been worried that he would die suddenly, or die with us not around, and that’s exactly what happened. With these dramatic, sudden, violent kind of deaths, the initial few days, there’s this kind of shock. You don’t believe it. And I think Succession really captured that. You don’t see them fully break down, and of course, my reaction in real life was like a wounded fucking animal, because it was hearing something that you expected to hear your whole life, but it hasn’t happened yet, so it’s just not going to happen. And it did happen. And so, as we get into the season, that grief is going to catch up with them.
You were saying earlier that Karolina seems totally prepared for Logan’s death. I was really struck by how much she sort of emerges as this unlikely power player. She seems totally confident in what the next steps are going to be. What did you think was going through her head? How did you play that scene?
Obviously, there’s a part of her brain that knows this is gonna have a ripple effect during this already stressful time, with GoJo and Gerri about to be fired. There’s all these political things, and this death is like the rug being pulled out from under them. But this is what she does best. This is what she’s been trained to do. It’s like she’s learned to compartmentalize and there’s things that have to be done. People in that position, at the end of the day, they’re not family. And maybe that sounds harsh, but there’s other things she’s probably thinking about in that moment. “What are we going to do when we land, what are we doing with the statement?” She’s more concerned about the statement, in a weird way, than the kids. I remember I said, “Mark, when I call [the Roy children], shouldn’t she say, ‘So sorry for your loss’ or something?” He knows Dag the human, who’s so different and would fall apart. But we all need someone who doesn’t fall apart, who’s looking at the bigger picture. And I think that was Karolina’s MO: “I’m the only female here right now. It’s a roomful of boys who are probably shitting their pants thinking, what the fuck’s gonna happen?”
Is there a part of Karolina that is thinking about her own chances as a possible successor?
I don’t know. Definitely, she’s thinking no one’s gonna axe her now and everyone’s gonna need her. That’s a good position to be in. It’s all about these allegiances and alliances. There’s a part of me that thinks Karolina is like, “Get me the fuck out of here, I’m gonna do my thing and I’m out.” And then there’s another part of me that’s like, “OK, me, Gerri, and Shiv are gonna rule the fucking world.” I can’t say too much about anything because I can’t, but it definitely was oddly a bit of a moment for her, wasn’t it?
That was my takeaway. I mean, here’s this character who really takes this and uses it and has her moment. Have you been getting that response from the audience since the episode aired?
I have been. I don’t go on Twitter much at all anymore, but I did go on Sunday and go, “Oh, look at all the little memes and GIFs about Karolina.” There’s a whole contingent of the fan base that swears Karolina is this amazing lesbian, and I’m not confirming or denying, OK?
Are we going to find out more about her this season?
I can’t say if you are but I would say [I] know when I’m Karolina, I’m not gonna get the juicy monologue and I’m not gonna get the makeup scene. That’s part of the authenticity of this character. She’s a PR person. It’s all about how you appear and that’s all she cares about: how they appear to the world, how things appear on the surface. Once in a while, I’m allowed to raise my eyebrow and give someone a look and I’ve learned to speak volumes with my eyebrows on this show.
Can you give me an example?
Mostly stuff with Hugo. Fisher and I have the best relationship. We can’t stop laughing when we work together. We feel like we should do a reboot of I Love Lucy, Ethel and Fred. Even in that little scene was when he was giggling over Kerry’s audition, I knew what he was doing. She likes to shoot him these looks, like, “I see you, you fucking transparent boy, I see you.” She kind of flexes her muscle when it comes to Hugo, like, “I’m gonna fuck you and make you sweat a little bit here.” And there’s a lot more of that in the coming episodes. That’s a fun relationship that gets a little bit more fleshed out.
How did you learn about Logan’s death, and what was your reaction?
We did a Zoom. Jesse had a special Zoom with the family first, Brian [Cox] and the kids to let them know. And then there was a separate Zoom for all the other series regulars. We were all very shocked. Because obviously at one point or another you think, OK, someone’s got to succeed him. But the fact that it happened so early on in the season was a surprise to everyone. We all thought that it was very in keeping with Succession. It’s not a very precious show. It’s not about people who are precious. It’s about ego struggles and it’s cutthroat. And it seems very cutthroat that he would die in Episode Three, but in a perfect way. We were very nervous and couldn’t imagine that without Brian there. He is also a larger-than-life presence on set. And it was very strange.
In retrospect, do you think you’ve brought anything from your relationship with your dad to your relationship with Logan on the show?
Yeah, don’t make him mad [laughs]. There was a scene — I don’t remember what season — where he’s really mad at me on the plane and just lashing out, and he fires me, like, “You’re fucking out.” I remember bristling and [with] tears in my eyes, as Karolina and as Dag, and I get up and I walk to the back of the plane and Marsha extends her hand and squeezes my hand. And I think that was cut out but yeah, my dad and Brian had a lot of similar qualities in how they carry themselves in the world. But Brian is much more artistic and he can be very gentle. My dad was very affectionate. Brian’s very affectionate. And so Brian and I really clicked right away. I didn’t have a big part in Season One or Season Two, but he was always so great with me. And I think it’s because I knew when to laugh, I knew when to smile, I knew when to listen, I knew when to joke back. Because he reminded me so much of my dad. So yeah, there was a lot of love there.
There are moments throughout the past two seasons where it’s kind of clear that Logan sees the other younger women in his life — in a gross way, Kerry, and I guess, in a less gross way, Karolina — as sort of substitutes for this daughter who he doesn’t think can live up to his expectations. Did you view it as sort of a paternal relationship, in a way?
Yeah, it’s so interesting — his scene with Scott [Nicholson, who plays Colin, Logan’s body man], in the diner — men like that sometimes can extend their grace and vulnerability and love to people who aren’t family, more than they can to family. And I think that was Logan. He knows no matter what he does, they’ll never leave because they want to keep working for him and getting paid. Whereas with his children, they want a lot more. And so it’s harder, so you check out a little bit. But I’m so excited for you to watch the rest of the season. I really am. The audience is going to get everything they want in terms of how everything does or doesn’t end and be surprised along the way.
Doesn’t end?
No, like, who gets to keep their job and who doesn’t and that kind of thing. Are you kidding? We all have a group text thread called “Succession folks,” and we’re all on it. And we’re always like, “OK, now we’re gonna do a reboot of Three’s Company. Let’s pitch this to Jesse.” We still can’t believe that we’re not gonna go back and act together on this show.
Who’s the most active cast member on the group thread?
Alan [Ruck, who plays oldest failson Connor] is the funniest. J. [Smith Cameron, who plays Gerri] is very active on there. All us girls are — Snooki, Sarah Snook. Then there’s the quiet ones who will give a thumbs-up or a heart emoji. J. just showed us fan art she found online. J. loves doing that — she’s always sending links or gifts or memes or fan videos, you know? It really tickles her fancy. And she sent one that someone drew of Succession as the Last Supper. Someone drew 12 characters on there, as if Logan was Jesus. It was cool.
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