Severance creator answers (some of) our burning questions about that mind-blowing finale
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Warning: This article contains spoilers for Severance, including the season 1 finale.
Dan Erickson knows you might be a little frustrated with him. After all, the first season of his mind-bending sci-fi dramedy Severance raised new mysteries and questions with every episode, and even the answers it provided sparked new questions. (What is this coveted Waffle Party? Oh, it's an orgy involving giant themed masks. Wait, what??)
So it went with the season finale (now streaming on Apple TV+), which finally gave us a glimpse of life outside the Lumon Industries office for Helly (Britt Lower) and Irving (John Turturro), but also built to the show's biggest cliffhanger yet, ending (severing?) just as the "overtime contingency" was cut off, returning Helly, Irving, and Mark (Adam Scott) to their "outie" selves. And we're left with almost as many questions as before, if not more: How did Mark's wife Gemma, a.k.a. Ms. Casey (Dichen Lachman), end up at Lumon? Why is Irving's outie painting pictures of the terrifying entrance to the "Testing Floor"? Seriously, what the actual f--- is up with those baby goats?
Rest assured, creator and co-showrunner Erickson knows the answers — and he also knows withholding them was a pretty good way to keep viewers hooked. With Severance now a certifiable breakout hit, and freshly renewed for season 2, he's still keeping those answers confidential for now — but he did, surprisingly, have a lot to say in response to some of our other questions. Here's a long talk with Erickson about the season finale, where Severance is headed in its second season, and "the moral of the orgy" in the penultimate episode of season 1.
Apple TV+ Adam Scott as Mark in 'Severance'
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: That's quite the cliffhanger you leave us on in the finale. Why did you decide to conclude the season at that particular endpoint?
DAN ERICKSON: Well, it was a long discussion, and we talked about a bunch of different endpoints for the season. And I don't mean to throw [director and executive producer Ben Stiller] under the bus, because I think it was a brilliant decision and the right decision, but he was the one who ultimately suggested, maybe the end of the overtime contingency is the end of the season. I was like, "Okay, people are gonna be mad!" But I think it's by far the most effective point where we could have ended this part of the story, storytelling-wise and for the characters. They've all finally gotten what they asked for, and it has raised all these new questions and all these new problems that they're now going to have to deal with moving ahead.
I will say, I was a little upset when I found out that was the end of the season.
Yeah, I'm getting new locks on my doors for sure.
On a related note, how did you figure out how much of the mystery to tease out and how much you would reveal to the audience during the first season?
That was always a question. We talked about, "Do we want to know what Lumon is doing by the end of the season? Do we want to know what the numbers are? Do we want to know how whatever happened to Gemma happened to Gemma?" And I think that I have the impulse to [reveal] all that, because I want to prove that I know it and that we actually do have answers, which we do. But that's not always the best way to construct a drama and to get people continually invested. So we wanted to try to provide enough answers that it felt like we were resting on a little ledge on this massive cliff-climb that we're doing. It's gonna be a while before we come back, so we want to leave you on a little sort of ledge where you know some things and you can discuss what all this stuff means, but there's still plenty of climb ahead.
Apple TV + Patricia Arquette in 'Severance'
I like that the show keeps so many things mysterious, but I have to ask about that Waffle Party sequence in the penultimate episode. Where did that idea come from, and what was the thinking behind it?
I honestly think it started as a joke. In the writers' room, I think somebody made the joke-slash-comment that maybe this turns out to be a masked orgy of sorts. You don't want to make something that's just shocking and weird for the sake of it, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense within this idea that everything is commodified at Lumon, that all aspects of being a human being are commodified and redirected to instill company loyalty. And this idea of commodifying sex — like, of course they would find a way to use that.
So that was the big question: If we do this, is it just going to seem like a big, goofy choice, or is it going to be something that really works with the lore that we've set up for this company? And ultimately, we decided to go for it, and we juxtapose it with what I think is this really sweet scene between Mark and Helly, where they finally admit their feelings for each other. It's this organic, very human version of a budding romance next to this extremely dark, weird, gross, commodified version of sex. Because [the Waffle Party] is like, yes, you can experience sex or sexual gratification or eroticism, but it's all going to be in the context of the Lumon mythos. And sort of the moral of the orgy is that Lumon provides all things, and you must be grateful. [Pause] "The moral of the orgy" is also a good episode title. [Laughs]
Apple TV+ Mark (Adam Scott) and Helly (Britt Lower) have a moment on 'Severance'
You mentioned the moment between Mark and Helly. Walk us through the decision to have them embrace their feelings and kiss before they leave the office.
It's funny, I initially didn't want to go there, because I thought it would be interesting to explore this more platonic partnership between them, and I didn't want the romance to feel obligatory. It's like, we have two attractive people, so of course they have to end up together. But part of it was just the chemistry between Adam and Britt — there is this spark that's on screen when they're together that's so beautiful, and we wanted to acknowledge that. I think, too, it was a challenge to be like, "Is there a version of this that we can do that feels like a real, organic affection that grows between these two people?" And the humanness of that in this stark, emotionless place ended up being too good not to explore.
I'd like to discuss where we leave each character in the finale, starting with Helly. We see that she's really shaken by learning that she's an Eagan; how does that knowledge impact her innie self?
That was an idea that we had partway through; it wasn't an initial thing that I had planned. But it felt like the logical escalation of this nightmare she's been having this entire season. She wants to be free, basically, and she goes higher and higher up the line and keeps making this request, and taking more and more desperate measures. And we thought, how terrifying would it be if she finally reaches the top of the mountain, and the person sitting there, the ultimate authority deciding that she can never leave, is her? And not only that, but if she is an Eagan, then that means that in a way, this whole world is hers. Every horrific, nightmarish, dehumanizing thing that has happened to her was by her own design. And especially for somebody like Helly, who's so willful and so passionate and has such a sense of justice, what does that do to you? So once that idea came up, we just had to do it.
For Irving, his romantic arc with Burt (Christopher Walken) has really captured viewers' hearts over the course of the season. Is there any hope for them?
Well, I mean, they're both still alive, so there's always hope. I don't want to get too much into what our plans are, but I think that there is potential. I don't know that this has to be the end of their story.
Atsushi Nishijima/Apple TV+ Innies unite! Adam Scott, Zach Cherry, John Turturro, and Britt Lower on 'Severance'
Moving on to Dylan (Zach Cherry), then, he also has a wallop delivered to him; he's clearly really impacted by the knowledge that he has a kid. How does that revelation affect him?
Patricia Arquette put it most astutely during a conversation we were having backstage at one point. We were talking about this moment, and the way she put it was, "Once you've met your child, a finger trap is just a finger trap." I think that's the essence of the shift that Dylan goes through. His whole thing before is that he's sort of the severed version of a capitalist, where he derives meaning from these artificial signifiers that are given to him, like a finger trap or a caricature portrait or having sex with four people at a Waffle Party. These things are important to him primarily because of what they represent, and it's this artificial version of creating meaning in a life. And then suddenly having the context of knowing he's a father opens him up to being able to feel like he's part of his innie family, too, and that that might actually be more important even than the ultimate perk, the Waffle Party. Which is why he leaves that — we wanted that moment with him leaving in order to go help his friends.
I'm also curious about Arquette's character, Harmony — after she gets fired in episode 8, there's a moment where she seems like she's supporting Mark's decision to leave Lumon, but in the finale, she really bounces back and reasserts her company loyalty. What's she going through in those moments?
I loved that moment [in episode 8], because she's been completely beaten down by this company that's been her whole life, rejected by them and basically spat out. I wonder what would have happened in her basement if Mark hadn't knocked on the door. That was rock bottom, and then suddenly, there was this knock at the door, and I think for her, being invited to this party was this moment of realizing, "Is there a life outside of this? Am I more Mrs. Selvig than Cobel? I've always thought Selvig was the mask, but maybe not." I think she's a really sad and beautiful character, especially when she has these moments of craving a real connection and a real family.
But then, yes, the moment that she sees a way back into Lumon, it's immediate. Once she realizes that Mark has changed to his innie and figures out what has happened, it's like, "If I can stop this, if I can save Lumon from what's happening here, maybe that's my way back in." And she just goes right for it, which is the story of every addict, every cult member, everybody in a bad relationship that they keep going back to. We have these moments of clarity where we're almost able to see our own dignity and separate ourselves from that bad system, but then often, tragically, as soon as there's a door open again, you can't help but go right back in. Sometimes that's a process that takes years to break out of, and sometimes you never do. So I really liked that moment for her. I think what a lot of us would have loved in that moment is for her to turn against Lumon and become an ally to our heroes, but she's not there yet. This has been her whole life, and she can't break away.
Apple TV+ Dichen Lachman as Ms. Casey on 'Severance'
And then, as far as Mark goes, so much of this season was about grief, and how he's using severance to forget about his grief over his wife dying. Now that we know she's actually alive, how does that shift what the show is about and what you might want to explore with Mark down the road?
It's obviously a big twist that Gemma is alive, but we didn't want to do it unless it was more than that, and was going to allow us to continue in this thematic direction we were going. For Mark, his story was one of a broken person trying to put himself back together — literally and figuratively trying to reconnect with himself after the death of his wife. And in a way, I think we loved the idea of subverting that, because obviously, you get that trope where a female character is killed in order to spur a male character and give him a reason to go f--- some s--- up. But what happens when you interrupt that process, and all of a sudden maybe there is a chance to find happiness again? Is Mark going to be reluctant? Like, "I'm on my healing arc. I was making progress, and now all of a sudden, it's thrown for a loop."
Again, I don't want to give away what the deal is with Gemma and how she came to be [at Lumon], but we wanted to make sure that we could continue her story and his story in a compelling way, and not just have this be a big "oh s---" twist that completely changes the context of everything. We wanted it to affect both of their arcs but not completely derail them.
How much of season 2 do you already have mapped out? And what are you interested in exploring with the show in the second season?
It's weird to say with a show this dark, but I think there's a kindness to the show, and a sweetness, for lack of a better word. And I think that in these relationships that these innies have, people see their own family or their own work family, and there's a responsibility in that, because in a way, once people have latched on to that, then you're telling their story, and you don't want to get that wrong. So we're going to continue to really focus on the relationships between these characters, and we're expanding the world. The first season was an ensemble piece at work, but it was much more focused on Mark on the outside, obviously. We wanted the audience to experience Mark's life through his perspective, and he has no idea who Helly and Irving and Dylan are on the outside; his whole context for them is work. So we wanted to tell it in that way for season 1, but in season 2, we're going to be showing all of these people on the outside. Similar to Mark, they each had their own reason for getting this procedure, and they're all at some stage of a healing process for one thing or another.
I just can't wait, because these actors are all obviously so good. And being able to take what Adam did in the first season — with the differentiation between his innie and outie, and how they feel like the same person but with this vastly different lived experience — seeing the other three characters' version of that dichotomy is, I think, the most exciting part. In season 2, we're really going to expand and get into all of that. But then there'll be plenty of office stuff too. There may even be another melon bar.
This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.
The full first season of Severance is now streaming on Apple TV+.
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