Rhea Seehorn (‘Better Call Saul’): ‘I would love to do the whole thing again’ [Complete Interview Transcript]
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During a recent Gold Derby video interview, senior editor Matt Noble spoke in-depth with Rhea Seehorn (“Better Call Saul”) about her AMC legal drama, which is eligible at the 2023 Emmys. Watch the full video above and read the complete interview transcript below.
“Better Call Saul” closed out its seven-season run of the AMC series that tracked Jimmy (Bob Odenkirk) becoming the “criminal” lawyer Saul Goodman from “Breaking Bad.” The drama also showed the endearing and dangerous romance between Jimmy and Kim Wexler (Seehorn), a relationship that had become the heart of the show. The final season saw tragedy trigger their break-up and then explored their lives after the “Breaking Bad” timeline in black and white.
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Seehorn took a deep dive into her relationship with Odenkirk, claiming, “Bob and I innately trusted each other as scene partners from day one. To know each other that much more by the end, there was a lot of weight in saying, ‘Hi, Jimmy,’ as Kim. It’s her saying, ‘I see you and I know you see me.'” She added that if she had a time machine, “I would love to do the whole thing again.”
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Matt Noble: Rhea Seehorn played Kim Wexler in Better Call Saul. I’m Matt Noble of Gold Derby. And Rhea, I just want to start off by asking if you had to go … if you had a time machine and had to go back in time to any day shooting Better Call Saul, what day would you go to?
Rhea Seehorn: I guess day one, so I could start over. I would love to do the whole thing again. Yeah I’m sure everybody that had to do the desert scenes would disagree, but, yeah, no, there’s no way I could even pick a favorite day. Not a chance.
MN: Now that the series is all finished and now it’s all complete, how do you feel about how it ended and what was your reaction when you got that final script?
RS: Thrilled. I just think regardless of if I was in it or not, I just thought Peter, and the whole writer’s room, but Peter was our showrunner for the last one, and I think he did a beautiful job honoring the intelligence of the characters and the soul of the story, the morality questions, the insisting on not nailing down what the audience has to think or interpret. And I thought it was a beautiful ending and very respectful of fans and the characters.
MN: What was the most challenging scene for you in the last half of that final season?
RS: There was a lot of challenges, and I say that not pejoratively, I say that blissfully. You want to be challenged as an actor and you are flattered when somebody trusts you with difficult material, especially material where you’re needing to play things that are not being verbalized and there needs to be clarity while it being nuanced because humans are messy and this kind of thing. It’s hard for me to pick one. Playing Kim in Florida was technically challenging. Figuring out who that person is and making sure that you don’t see that the real Kim is behind her eyes at the beginning, but then you start to see cracks and figuring out what that journey is and what she was doing and finding the line between … it should be content but not passionate, but it’s also not miserable. There’s nothing actually wrong with the life she’s living. And finding that with Vince was technically challenging. The waterworks, the bus scene, technically challenging. And then the finale episode as well. Well, actually even going before that, the breakup scene was really difficult. Michael Morris directed that and Eli, our dolly grip and Matt on … the camera op, like finding a wave that they stayed with us as we went room to room was this story of choreographed dance that was really cool to figure out. And then the last scenes were emotionally difficult.
MN: Let’s go to that sort of … let’s go to the end and we have you and Bob or Jimmy and Kim share that cigarette in the jail cell harkening back to the very first scene you guys shared together in the pilot. Can you compare what was going on in your head, Rhea, like the final time shooting that and the day one shooting that with Bob? How were they different experiences for you as an actress?
RS: Well, I knew Bob so much better by then, not just as a friend, but also Kim and Jimmy and also as a scene partner. Technically there were a lot of similarities too. He and I innately trusted each other as scene partners from day one and came to set very prepared, but also thrilled to see where the other person throws the ball, so that you had to alter your performance. And that made this tether between us that reads as chemistry, which is a wonderful thing that of nothing can be said the exact same way until you find out the way the other person is going to deliver their line to you or what they’re physically doing or not speaking. To know each other that much more, even by the end, there was a lot of weight in saying, “Hi, Jimmy,” as Kim. It’s her saying, “I see you and I know you see me.”
Which I think is the profound connection that they always had, was that they felt seen by each other to their depths. And she’s letting them know, I see the person you really are and I always knew that you were still in there. There’s still love there, there’s pain, there’s tragedy, it’s hello, it’s goodbye to at least a chapter of their lives. And for me, I was playing that scene on the very last day and the weight of that, of like holy, what we’ve been through Bob for the last seven years, and here we are. It was all there. It was nice to be able to draw upon it, but you have to limit it because it’s also not supposed to be Rhea just crying in there.
MN: And what is Jimmy and Kim are people who when they want to can say a lot, they can be quite talkative, wordy characters who’ve got some great moments of dialogue, but also a lot said often in the quiet moments between the two. There’s some great scenes on the balcony where they’re tossing beer bottles and things and it’s nice. That last moment was quite a quiet one where a lot was said without a lot being said. What do you think, as Kim looks back at Jimmy that last time before walking away, what’s going on in her head in those moments? What’s not being said?
RS: I feel like that moment is, and Peter has made it public that we originally shot me doing finger guns back at him, and then it was cut. And at first I was really sad because I wanted that moment to be that she’s saying there’s still a connection, there always will be. And he said, yes, it’s in the eyes, but the finger guns, when we watched it in the editing bay can be interpreted as I’m back in the game and we will scam ourselves into our new future. And I said, oh, well, no, we don’t want that. And that’s, that’s one of the infinite benefits of collaborating and having a great director because you can think you’re playing one thing, but if it reads as something else, that’s not the story you want to tell. I feel like she’s letting him know … I mean there’s a lot. I mean, I think it’s incredibly painful to leave him there to not take him in the car with me, but I think she thinks that they do have a future and that he has a future, both by the fact that they’ve both decided to unburden themselves and free their conscience. And then also I think … I don’t know, I personally am a hopeless romantic, so I personally think she’s going to start trying to figure out how to decrease his sentence, but legally. Not in a scam.
MN: Yeah. Good behavior, who knows. At the risk of being reductive, how would you just summarize or convey how you felt the series ended? Do you think it was a happy ending, a sad ending, a bittersweet ending? What did the ending leave you feeling?
RS: It’s thoughtful. It is bittersweet, but it’s thoughtful and it’s as intelligent and nuanced and messy as those two characters are.
MN: Yeah, I think that something really cool was we didn’t … we probably didn’t get complete redemption, but we also didn’t get no change. And no … these characters do make steps to take accountability and be better people, even though some of the things they’ve done are quite horrible and maybe they can never get complete penance for it. We see them make steps to, which was, I think you know what you’re saying there. It’s quite a nuanced ending. It’s not this simple thing, which was actually really cool.
RS: Yeah, and, sure, it would be wonderful if he just got out of jail and they ran off into the sunset, but how is that an intelligent ending. Believe me again, I’m a hopeless romantic, so there was a part of me that was so really 86 years, but then it’s like you have to remind yourself, go watch Breaking Bad, like …
MN: Yeah.
RS: Did a lot more than the antics that we see on Better Call Saul, you know?
MN: Yeah. And, look, in some ways there’s something romantic about the end they got where they can look back fondly on the good in their relationship, but also seek to better themselves through the choices they’re making now. So, I think there’s something really … there is a sort of, not the rom-com type romantic ending, but there is something quite romantic about that final moment.
RS: It is. It’s a new genre. Darkly romantic instead of darkly comedic.
MN: Yeah. Oh, you’ve got a real pickle this season, Rhea, in terms of whether for the Emmys you submit yourself in the lead or the supporting category, because I think there’s a good case to be made for either. What are the pros and cons in your mind as you sort of weight that?
RS: I don’t know. I’m very thrilled to be a part of this conversation that people are talking about. I don’t know. I will talk to my team and let you guys know when I know, and it’s not as much about how can I orchestrate the best plan to get a result that I want. As much as you’re right, there’s a strong argument to be made either way. There really is. It’s not a situation where you don’t really qualify for that or you don’t really qualify for that. There’s a strong argument to be made either way. I don’t know. There’s champagne problems to have for sure.
MN: Just quickly, Rhea. I’m going to ask for both, so I’m not just focusing it on one. If you went lead, what would be the reason you’d choose lead?
RS: I don’t think I’m qualified to like … the technical parts of what you’re supposed to figure out. I don’t know. I am the lead female in it, if you’re going to say of the females. But you could argue that I have always been a supporting character to the story of Saul Goodman, to the character of Jimmy McGill. I guess that’s on the most baseline, that would be why I would say you could argue for either one.
MN: Yeah. Yeah. No, in some way she’s the support to Saul. In another sense, they do end the story together and we have that focus on both of them.
RS: She also had A stories on her own that were not ancillary to his over the years. This isn’t the first time it’s come up that should it be the lead or should it be supporting. So, I don’t know.
MN: There’s something about the last season where it’s like, oh, this is the last time we get to make this decision. This is maybe a bit more thought put into it for the last go around.
RS: Oh, okay, fine. I’ll put more thought into it.
MN: Yeah. Yeah. Just that’s what I found in my life, Rhea. Overthinking never creates any problems. Okay.
RS: It’s best to show up to the Emmys covered in eczema. So, I’ll just think about it more.
MN: Fantastic. To shift to something probably a bit more important, well, definitely more important is obviously there was a bit of a delay to the final season of better course or because of Bob’s health, and I don’t want to talk too much about that particular moment or event, but what I did want to ask is when you came back to film it, I’ve always found that you guys, you and Bob and everyone that I’ve spoken to from the show have such an appreciation for what you get to do in each other. How did that affect your gratitude and appreciation as you shot those final episodes, having had that break and that time to reflect on what you’ve done?
RS: In lots of different ways. I mean, it was fascinating psychologically that when we had to go back and complete the scene that he had the heart attack during … luckily we had done most of our side, so we didn’t have to suppress or purge tears. It’s when Lalo is telling me … Jimmy’s telling me to leave the apartment and he’ll stay with Lalo and I’m going to go to Gus’s house. And they both think the other one might die. And all of this, we needed to turn around on Tony Dalton, and you still see us in wides, Bob and I. So, we needed to re-watch the footage. And it was fascinating to me that … because he said he didn’t remember that day at all and why, what a lovely thing for your brain to do to say like, “Forget that day. That day sucked. Let’s not think about that day ever again.” But we had shot for 12 hours before … or 10, for 10 hours before he had the heart attack and we’re still on set and we’re going to go back in when it happened. And so we needed to re-watch this footage. And I said, “So, now do you remember it?” And it’s hours and hours and hours of really intense acting on his part. And he said, he goes, “It’s like I’m watching someone else play me in a scene.” He’s like, “I remember that scripted scene. I remember reading it in a script, but nothing that I’m witnessing.” I was like, “That is crazy to me.” There was stuff that … that was just very interesting to return to it. But there were other things that I had … none of it is good that this happened. I wish none of it happened at all. But the way it happened … Bob’s amazing wife, Naomi and his kids, Aaron and Nate were very welcoming of Patrick Fabian and I, because Patrick and Bob and I lived together, and they made sure we got to see him pretty soon after he woke up and was going to be okay and didn’t want us to go stay in a hotel when they brought him home from the hospital. And I’m so grateful to them because I think they knew what we witnessed on that day. And so I got to have some emotional repair work with Bob, and so did Patrick, prior to getting to set. That’s my point in saying that while Bob was in the hospital, Patrick and I had to go in for the Covid tests. There’s a cadence you have to stay on and had to drive into the studio and pass the elephant door, which for anybody that doesn’t know is the larger stage door that you can load things in and could see the set and the floor where he went down and we both lost it. That was hard. But we had some weeks to personally begin to grab him and hug him and cry and tell him how much we love him and if he ever does this again, we’re going to kill him. And then by the time we got back to the work, it was actually … like I said, it was weird, but it was also, thank goodness, it was the joy of we get to do this. Yeah, we were always really grateful and now we’re really, really, really grateful.
MN: Yeah. You get to play again.
RS: Yeah.
MN: Yeah. Well, Rhea, yeah, that’s so … it is so lovely that you got to finish the series the way you did and all that sort of stuff. I remember I was in LA for the season two premiere and I took my mum to that. She’d never seen Better Call Saul before. And so she was starting with the season two premiere. She like that, “Rhea See- … Oh, whoever’s playing Kim, she’s really good.” And we were at the drinks thing afterwards, said, on your way out, mum was like, “Oh, we’ve got to say hi. We’ve got to say hello.” So, she said, “Oh, you were very good,” like … you were on your way out.
RS: Oh-
MN: picture and you were very kind. Yeah.
RS: Oh, good, good. Oh, that’s so nice. Thank you.
MN: We’ve got to wrap up here, Rhea, but just lastly, just in one sentence, what does the character of Kim Wexler mean to you? Now you are looking back on her having finished her story. What’s that?
RS: What does she mean to me?
MN: Yeah, what did that character mean to you in terms of what impact has she had on you?
RS: Both playing her … She taught me as an actress and then I explored through playing her. Trusting, trusting your instincts, trusting yourself, following that path.
MN: Awesome. Well, almost called you Kim there. Oh, Rhea-
RS: That’s all right.
MN: It’s been great to talk. I’ll give you the guns. Oh, okay. We’ll decide if we want to keep that or cut that later. You’re …
RS: Fair enough.
MN: It’s been great talking. All the best luck for the Emmy Awards. Better Call Saul-
RS: Thank you.
MN: … has never won an Emmy from 46 nominations. This needs to be the year, Emmy Voters. This is your last chance for them to find a bit of Emmy redemption. People can go to goldderby.com. And Rhea, it has been so lovely talking for all these seasons about Better Call Saul.
RS: You as well. Thank you so much for all the support.
MN: Talk about something else one day.
RS: Okay.
MN: Have a good one.
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