How the ‘Poker Face’ Finale Sets Up Charlie Cale for Season 2 and Beyond
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[This story contains major spoilers to the season one finale of Poker Face, “The Hook.”]
The hook brings you back.
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Going into the finale of Poker Face, showrunners Nora and Lilla Zuckerman had warned The Hollywood Reporter to keep an eye out for all of the “hooks.” And that Easter egg hint panned out with the March 9 season one conclusion to the murder mystery series.
First, the title of the episode is “The Hook.” Then, after Benjamin Bratt’s casino fixer Cliff finally catches Natasha Lyonne’s Charlie Cale — who has been on the run since the premiere and has been making weekly pit-stops to solve murders — he recites to her the lyrics of Blues Traveler’s “Hook.” Viewers will even notice Steven Spielberg’s 1991 classic Hook playing in the background when Charlie reunites with her estranged sister (played by Clea DuVall) after she’s framed for murder in Atlantic City, N.J.
So, what’s with all of the hooks?
“The whole episode is kinda about the format of the show, and the addictive little hooks in life that pull us into situations,” show creator Rian Johnson explained to THR via email. Johnson wrote the finale, which was directed by Janicza Bravo. “These catchy little tunes, hip three-minute ditties — that also describes each episode of Poker Face. That’s also the life of someone who makes movies or TV for a living, having little intense experiences with a cast of characters, and then you wrap and move on down the highway to the next one. So, using the episode to look at the format of the show and the actual effects on Charlie’s life being caught in that seemed interesting.”
Charlie Cale, who anchors the Peacock series with her superpower of being able to identify a lie and solve murders, was nearly left for dead in the penultimate episode, “Escape From Shit Mountain.” The finale revealed that she survived, but her accident led Cliff (Bratt), the head of security for Ron Perlman’s casino owner Sterling Frost, right to her. The episode showed how Cliff’s resentment had built after spending more than a year on the road trying to catch Charlie, following the death of Sterling’s son (Adrien Brody) in the premiere. So when Cliff finally brings Charlie to Sterling, he’s actually gone rogue. Now working for his new bosses at an opposing crime syndicate, he orchestrates the murder of Sterling — and pins it on Charlie.
But Charlie buys herself enough time to help FBI agent Luca Clark (Simon Helberg) nail Cliff for the murder of her friend Natalie (Dascha Polanco), prompting Cliff to turn on his new boss, Beatrix Hasp (Rhea Perlman). The twist-after-twist finale ends with Charlie getting a call from Beatrix, who similarly offers Charlie two options: Come work for her or prepare to be hunted down. And just as she did in the premiere episode, Charlie chooses herself and a life on the run — bringing viewers back to how it all began, and now on the hook for season two.
“The possibilities seem limitless,” says Johnson about what’s in store for the future of the series, which earned a season two renewal after five of the 10 episodes had released. “I’m excited to see how we can stick to the format and push it even further with the surprises and twists and turns. Also, I’m drooling over what new actors we can lure in for guest star parts.”
And while viewers can expect many more Easter eggs, the Knives Out filmmaker does rule out Benoit Blanc appearing in Poker Face, since it was Lyonne who made the Glass Onion cameo, and not Charlie Cale. (Meaning, in the world of Knives Out and in the meta-universe Johnson has created, Benoit Blanc is friends with Lyonne). “Though, I do like the idea that an episode of Poker Face could be on TV in the background of the next Benoit Blanc movie,” he says of his starring character in the Netflix film franchise, who is played by Daniel Craig.
Below, the showrunners of Poker Face, veteran TV writers and sisters Nora and Lilla Zuckerman, speak further to THR about the season one finale and their ideas for season two — including hopes to bring back their A-list guest stars and having many more seasons on the road with Charlie Cale.
Everyone wants a piece of Charlie. But in the end, she chooses herself, even though life back on the road seems like the tougher choice. Can you talk about her finale decision?
Nora Zuckerman: It’s such a bittersweet ending, that’s what I liked about it so much. She is so aware of who she is and what her problems are. I think her scene with her sister (played by Clea DuVall) really highlights that — she’s aware of all the problems that exist by being her family member or friend. But she is confident as she leaves the finale that she will be OK. Maybe we’re not so sure, but Charlie is. So, I think we want to go on the ride with her.
Lilla Zuckerman: It’s an interesting bookend to the pilot where people are coming at her and making her offers. They want to have her come work for them. They want to own her. And if you had an ability like hers, I’m sure that people always want to own you and exploit your ability. I love that she walks away from all of it, even when it is threatening her very life. I do think that she does choose herself in the end, and she chooses her independence and her own destiny.
The scenes between Natasha Lyonne and Clea DuVall were standouts, especially because they are close in real life and were emotionally wrecked as these sisters. Their conversations raise questions about how Charlie “ruined” her family. Are you excited to dig into her past in season two?
Nora: I think we will always be un-peeling that onion of who Charlie is, but it will be in very judicious ways like the way we did this season. I don’t think we want to show all of our cards at once. I think we all have in our heads what it would have been like to live with this kind of ability, especially for family. It would be both illuminating and heartbreaking. Charlie somehow has survived, and somehow is still an optimist. She’s not a cynic. She doesn’t hate people. She doesn’t look at everybody as a liar. I think she looks at everybody as human. So part of me is curious, where did that optimism come from for Charlie? We will, I’m sure, get more into it. But I think it will be in small, very satisfying slices.
My prediction was wrong. I thought Charlie was going to join the FBI for season two. Did you consider alternate endings, like Charlie accepting either offer from Beatrix (Rhea Perlman) or FBI agent Luca (Simon Helberg)?
Lilla: We love the idea that we have those possibilities open, but it felt right that she goes back on the road. We get a glimpse into the difficulties of her having these grounding, intimate relationships like we see with her sister. So we understand that she’s not just a drifter because she’s being chased. She’s a drifter because it’s difficult for her to dig in and settle down. I love that we end with that image of her on the road again and behind the wheel, taking charge of her own destiny. That’s not to say that she can’t collaborate with law enforcement for an episode in the future. But I do like that she belongs to herself.
Nora: Simon is great. Watching their finale scene at the diner, they have such chemistry. I was like, “You know, people are going to ship you guys.” And they were like, “What?” And I had to explain the whole shipping thing. But these guys are so good together and so much fun to watch, that you know that’s probably not the end of that relationship.
You didn’t know you had a second season when you plotted this finale, and it does that rare thing of functioning both as a series or a season one ender. Now that you do have your second season ordered, have you started to think about answering Beatrix Hasp’s final question to Charlie: How long can she keep up this life?
Lilla: I’d sure like to find out. We have so many ideas of where we want to take Charlie next. We have ideas for episodes, we have ideas for characters. We have storylines in our heads. So I’m so glad we are going to be able to go there with her. Will Charlie ever settle down in a city? We might find her there, but I always think that she’s going to be on the move. She’s like a shark that’s always moving forward. So the prospect of going on this journey with her for another season, and hopefully seasons to come, is thrilling.
You began to bend the howcatchem format as the season went on, keeping viewers on their toes. How much will you stick to the formula for season two, and how much will you continue to bend it?
Nora: I think it’s inevitable that we’ll play with the audience’s expectations a little bit. The fun thing about this season, and we’ve talked to Rian about this in the writing of it, is that the first several episodes were really training our audience of how to watch this show and what to expect. And then we start pulling little tricks. You think you understand, and then we pull the rug out a little bit in different episodes. So I think there will be episodes that feel very classic, structurally. And then ones where we play with it. But I hope as an audience member, you won’t know what you’re getting week to week. It’s never going to be a classic, cookie-cutter formula. We just have too much fun playing with it. But I still think we’ll remain true to the howcatchem. It’s such a joyful way to write a mystery. We’ve really enjoyed the process, and now we’ve learned how to do it and how to break it well in the room. So I think that will always remain.
Lilla: There are ways to be innovative within that structure. In the room, I’m the big structure person and I like setting the rules and playing by them. Then within that, you get your innovation, you get your embellishment, you get those unexpected twists.
Nora: It’s always fun to learn the system first, and then you figure out how to undercut it and have fun with it. I think the finale does that wonderfully. You’re not quite sure what that first act is, really. Because it’s not exactly what you expect.
Every guest actor I spoke with said they wanted to come back for season two. Lil Rel Howery, Judith Light, Ellen Barkin, Cherry Jones and Joseph Gordon-Levitt all want to return as different villains. Will you consider bringing some stars back?
Nora: Absolutely.
Lilla: I would love to do that. It’s like they did in the old Columbo episodes where they would have these guest stars come back and play a completely different role, a completely different killer. I like the idea that we are building kind of a repertoire theater company here, where we can bring our actors back and have them play another role. Maybe this time they’re the victim instead of the killer. Maybe they are Charlie’s sidekick. I like the idea of having a core group of actors who can come back and play.
Nora: It follows the old Columbo tradition of Patrick McGoohan and Robert Culp. These guys who would come back, but play a completely different kind of dastardly bad guy. We talked about it on set because a lot of the actors were having a lot of fun. And they would say, “Oh, it’s too bad I get sent to prison” or meet an unfortunate end. And we were like, “You can always come back if we follow the sort of tradition of the old NBC mysteries.”
It’s a shame the locations are all over the place because you could have a great prison spinoff.
Nora: (Laughs) We did love Judith and Epatha [Merkerson] so much, we were like, “OK, we’d love to see a spinoff.” And then who knows if Kathleen [Ellen Barkin’s character] ends up in prison? Charlie is amassing a group of enemies of people she’s put away.
But it does make us happy that people had such fun making the show, and I think a lot of that is that we gave them really fun characters to play. And doing these one-off guest roles have been really fun, creatively, for the actors we’ve had. And that’s really exciting for us.
Ellen Barkin specifically compared this to her legacy of work, sharing that she has had some terrible experiences by comparison and felt very supported on the Poker Face set. How do you feel when you get that feedback, as Hollywood tries to create that more and more on sets?
Nora: It’s very gratifying for me to see that. Ellen was so wonderful, and Lilla can speak to it as well because she had such a close relationship with Ellen. But it’s really wonderful to see and to hear that from someone who has such an amazing body of work. To me I’m like, what took so long for Ellen to be able to come to a set and feel supported? She’s so talented.
Lilla: I think from day one, when Rian was directing the ninth episode and then the pilot, we just tried to set a tone that is really nurturing and supportive and energetic and fun. That is Rian’s energy that he brings to set, and we carried that throughout the season. And I am really proud that we created an environment where all these artists could come and do such tremendous work, and feel free and comfortable to give us the gifts of their talent. For us, it’s like hosting a dinner party. You are setting the tone, and then hopefully giving everybody the runway and the freedom and the support to do their work.
You had an ambitious season, with the top-notch cast and different locations each episode. Is there anything you want to do differently next season?
Nora: You always want more time. You probably ask any showrunner in town what they wish they had more of in production, and it’s always time. But we’re very happy with the way all the episodes turned out. We loved our crew, we loved the locations. We’re very proud of the final 10 episodes. There is always stuff you cut and it’s like, “Ugh, if only we had gotten back that little detail.” But ultimately, everything turned out so well, it’s hard for us to say there are things that we would change. The show will always be an ambitious show to make, though, with different locations and different worlds every week. In that way, the production is always going to be a really ambitious, challenging one.
Columbo ran for 10 seasons, is that the kind of ride you are gearing up for? And, is a yearly pace sustainable?
Lilla: I would love to continue to write and showrun Poker Face for as long as they’ll have us. I feel like we’re just getting started. Creatively, there are so many stories I want to tell. There are so many places that I want to take Charlie. And now I feel like we have this lovely season and it’s just a launchpad for what we’re going to do in the future. I feel very energized about it. I want to take the cross-country road trip for the next several years, as far as we can take it. The fact that everyone loves the show and people are just starting to discover it really gives me a lot of energy and hope moving forward, and to keep moving for a long time.
Nora: The way audiences have embraced the show has been really, really wonderful. I think this is a show people didn’t know has been missing in their lives. I’ve heard that a lot from people, that they love the format and they love going to a different world every week. So that’s been really fun to hear. It just makes us want to keep surprising them and have more fun.
Congrats on that 99 percent approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
Nora: The odds of this happening again in our career are pretty slim. So, we gotta enjoy it!
Have actors around town been calling, or sending gift baskets, to get cast on season two?
Nora: I haven’t received any gifts yet, but I accept them through UTA. (Laughing.) We have gotten emails and reach outs from people who have really enjoyed the show, and people we’ve worked with in previous seasons have said like raised the hand. That’s been really, really fun for us. I think next year, hopefully if we have 10 more great stories, we’ll have lots of opportunities for people to come play in the Poker Face world.
There are also characters who could return. What can you say about Benjamin Bratt returning as Cliff, is that something you envision?
Lilla: Absolutely. I want to see what happens to him moving forward. He absolutely could come back. Agent Luca Clark could come back. There are a lot of possibilities there. But also, what’s so great about this show as a writer is that you get to create new characters every single week, and that’s not to say we can’t create someone in season two that becomes a recurring character in Charlie’s life — a thorn in her side, or maybe somebody who she does have a more intimate relationship with as a friend, as a companion. The possibilities are open and as writers, that is such a gift.
Nora: I’m very excited to see Benjamin Bratt with an eyepatch.
That eye injury was gnarly! And all from a very well-placed penis ring.
Nora: It was gnarly on set. And, exactly. If you are Cliff, how do you tell that story next season of how you lost your eye?
Who came up with that gag?
Nora: That was Rian, 100 percent. Pretty much all of the dick jokes in the show come from Rian. He’s got the perfect high brow-low brow humor, and the ring was one of them. But it inspired a lot of really colorful props discussions.
Do you imagine Rhea Perlman will have an over-arching role in season two, similar to how Ron Perlman loomed as the big villain in season one?
Lilla: I don’t know if we’ve landed on that yet. But I am super excited that we got such a talented person to be the new threat that’s nipping at Charlie’s heels. How we decide to use her? Our options are really open. But man, she’s terrific and forceful, and that’s going to be fun to see.
Do you have a timeline for when you’ll go back into the room for season two?
Nora: I think that’s all still being determined. The pick up came a little bit earlier than everybody expected. It was very welcome, but figuring out everybody’s schedules is something that has yet to happen. We’ll know soon.
In the meantime, are you two able to turn Poker Face off, given your close relationship? Or, are you constantly calling each other with ideas?
Lilla: It’s hard to turn it off. We have all of these pitches in our heads. We have files. We have ideas brimming. I’m driving around and I keep thinking about new ideas or twists. It’s hard to turn it off once it’s in your blood and we do really feel connected to the show like it’s in our bones. So, I’m always thinking about what’s next on Poker Face.
You had teased the “hooks” in the finale. What was it like to watch Benjamin Bratt do the monologue of Blues Traveler’s “Hook” lyrics?
Nora: it’s incredible. We saw Ben on set and I read the last draft of the script and I was like, “You’re in for it.” We were driving and when you’re driving, you just do take after take after take. He really almost got it perfect every single time. I think he screwed up maybe once or twice but did it multiple, multiple times. It was very impressive.
And Natasha Lyonne didn’t laugh?
Nora: I don’t think she did! I think they were really good because they were so conscious of how hard it was for Benjamin. And it was a really hot day when we were shooting that. So we were kind of just like, “Get it right, get it right.” And he nailed it.
Between that and the Burn Notice references, there’s some mystery to Cliff to be unpacked.
Nora: In some ways, your heart breaks for Cliff a little bit in this episode, which is unexpected.
Lilla: I just really hope that people enjoy the ride of these last episodes and that they want to keep moving forward with us.
Interview edited for length and clarity.
The first season of Poker Face is now streaming on Peacock.
