Phil Keoghan Breaks Down 'The Amazing Race 36's Most Talked-About Moments

Phil Keoghan

Tomorrow night marks the finale of The Amazing Race 36, which will go down as one of the most unique seasons in the Emmy-winning series' history. It will mark the end of a timeline that began all the way back at the end of 2022, when it was first filmed as the intended Season 35 before being swapped in the airing order. As such, viewers were sent back to the "COVID era" of the show, as host Phil Keoghan greeted teams through a comparatively more streamlined route to South America and the Caribbean. 

But even if Season 36 didn't do its customary extreme globe-trotting, there was still plenty to watch and discuss. We've watched teams make epic comebacks multiple times, while others fall apart on navigation or tasks. Alliances came to the forefront for the time in a while, as one coalition worked together to dominate this season's "Megaleg." However, perhaps the most talked about is the elimination of Angie and Danny Butler, who succumbed to one of the most unprecedented fates in the show's history. After becoming separated from their crew in Barbados, the mother and son were told to wait at the next destination to reunite. It was enough of a time-sink to send them from second down to last, eliminating them in the process.

"Those who know the show, we've built our trust with the contestants. We build trust with the audience," Keoghan explains to Parade.com in an exclusive interview when asked about the moment. "We are not working with an exact science. And on the day, based on all the information that we have, we gather to deliberate, and we try to make the decision in that moment. We don't have the ability to be like, 'Oh, let's leave it for a month and digest and do a whole analysis about this.' No, we have to make a decision there. And, in that moment, based on the information that we had, we made the decision that we made. And that's all there is to it."

Related: Everything to Know About The Amazing Race 36

Another big talking point this season has been the incredible dominance of Ricky Rotandi and César Aldrete. Despite the variance that is chief to the show's concept and a record-tying 13 teams on the season, the boyfriends have seemingly done the impossible. Across nine legs of the race, they've finished in first place six times and are on pace to tie the all-time record for leg wins in a single season.

"Have you ever met a team on The Amazing Race that are literally blessed with skills across the board?" Keoghan asks. "They can do anything. They can sing, they can dance, they can weld, they can build. They're smart; they do speak Spanish. They have this great chemistry between them. They're the whole Amazing Race package, all in one."

That said, every team, even the most infallible, has their weakness. And, in an exclusive sneak peek of tomorrow's finale, we might have found Ricky and César's. The clip shows Ricky attempting a Roadblock in the Dominican Republic, which involves windsurfing for a full minute. Despite the seemingly unlimited set of skills the two possess, windsurfing does not appear to be one of them, as we see Ricky repeatedly trying to keep his balance. Will this last-minute hurdle be the thing to send the frontrunners crumbling? Or will they be able to recover and continue their dominance to get the most important first-place finish of all?

Check out the clip below, as well as our full interview with Phil Keoghan. The Amazing Race 36 finale airs at 9:30 p.m. ET/PT on CBS.

When we spoke before the season, you mentioned stepping back in time for Season 36, considering how these seasons aired out of order. Now that we're almost done with the season, what has that experience been like for you?
It's been interesting. With the cast this season, the audience has really fallen in love with a lot of our characters. And I think we're living in such a different world than we were living in a few years ago. I mean, you're a writer. You're observational, and you try to do your best to gather facts and report on what you found out, etc. But we live in a world now where everybody sees themselves as a writer, and they love writing all kinds of crazy things. I mean, some of the stuff I read sometimes, I'm like, "Wow, what are you smoking?" [Laughs.]

There was one guy who said to me, "Oh, it would have been nice to know that this season was shot before the last season." So I just wrote a very patient reply and said, "Yes, you're right."--I always start with "you're right"--"It would be, and it definitely was something we did. I did a lot of press before. I'm still doing a lot of press about it. But at the end of the day, I'm very happy to give you your own personal message. This is what we're doing." [Laughs.] I can't say that it was easy. And I think it was a bit confusing for people. But we just tried to be totally transparent with the audience.

We didn't know when we shot this other one that we were going to do 90 minutes. We didn't know where the 90 minutes would work. We shot the other one with 90 minutes in mind. We put the 90 minutes out there; the 90 minutes worked really well. So we decided to go with that first in the fall, and then go back and take some time to be able to adjust. So yes, in hindsight, would it have been better to do it in chronological order? Yeah, of course. But we're also trying to make sure that when we put the show to air, it's the best possible show. We don't want to be like rushing it to air just because it would make more sense, but not being able to finesse it. So we did what we thought was best, and for the most part, people totally got it. It's not been a big deal.

Well, let's start by looking at some of the major things people have been talking about. This really has been Ricky and César's season. They've won six legs so far, and if they win the next two, they tie the record for first-place finishes in a single season. What's been your take on their season-long dominance?
Okay, just to get rid of one of the conspiracy theories out of the gate. Ricky and César are not the only ones who speak Spanish. Because a lot of people are like, "The only reason they're winning is because they speak Spanish. That's not true." They're not the only ones that speak Spanish. And I've got to be honest with you; I think I am not alone when I say that we all tend to judge a book by its cover. I don't think that when you look at Ricky and César at the starting line, you go, "Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure that that's a team that's experienced in welding." We're making certain judgments; we're making certain assessments.

But if you saw a couple standing there, and they were wearing a black outfit with ripped jeans, and their hands looked really like working hands, and they maybe had a t-shirt that said, "Metal rules" or something, and then someone said, "Pick the welders here," you'd probably go with them. Have you ever met a team on The Amazing Race that are literally blessed with skills across the board? They can do anything. They can sing, they can dance, they can weld, they can build. They're smart; they do speak Spanish. They have this great chemistry between them. They're the whole Amazing Race package, all in one. And let's be honest, there's a little bit of flair with the way that they've arrived here on the scene. They're certainly ardent followers of fashion. They didn't leave their best shirts behind. They brought them out of the race to show off.

Of course, we must get into one of the most controversial Amazing Race eliminations ever, when Angie and Danny were taken out in Barbados. The on-air explanation had been that the team had broken a rule in losing their crew, and had to wait until they arrived. But in speaking with Angie and Danny, they had said that there was a lot of figuring out in the moment on production's side how to handle the situation, down to producers meeting while you greeted them at the Pit Stop. Talk me through your perspective on everything that happened in this unprecedented situation.
The idea is that, after any season, you always go back, and you always look at how you can be better as a production. But we also have to look at, we have a set of rules. And the teams need to abide by those rules as well. Now, you're absolutely right; there was a lot of discussion. And a lot of people I know speculated, "That discussion must have been about whether we were going to keep them in or keep them out." That's not what the discussion was about. The discussion is about having to go back and look at footage, look at the timing of when certain things happened, where the responsibility falls on the contestant, and then where it falls on production, and then, in that moment, having to make the best judgment. Not on a team that is the most likable, or a team that we don't care about and we want to get out of the show, that's not how it's done.

The audience puts a lot of trust in us to make the right decisions throughout the race. But this is not a sport like tennis, where there's a line judge who says that was in or out. And now we have these machines that tell us very clearly, "That was out." We don't have that ability. You said "unprecedented." We're always trying new and different things. We're in new and different places. There are always going to be different factors that come into play. We didn't know it was going to rain, for instance, and what that might do to any number of things.

So the reality is that those who know the show, we've built our trust with the contestants. We build trust with the audience. We are not working with an exact science. And on the day, based on all the information that we have, we gather to deliberate and we try to make the decision in that moment. We don't have the ability to be like, "Oh, let's leave it for a month and digest and do a whole analysis about this." No, we have to make a decision there. And in that moment, based on the information that we had, we made the decision that we made. And that's all there is to it.

And I've seen all kinds of stuff online. And it's unfortunate that people start to spin. The other part of it is that we don't normally peel back the wall. We don't normally allow the viewer in. And if we're going to share some of that stuff with the audience, then, of course, we do open ourselves up more to the audience speculating about what they think happened. But what what the audience doesn't know is the timeline. One of the number one rules for any contestant: Do not lose your crew. Period. So they made a decision to keep on driving. And if the crew was lost behind them. The chances of them running into the crew going forward are pretty minimal. Anyway, all I'm saying is we always go back and analyze what we could do better on a given day. We have to go to the rules. We have to gather all the information, every camera, going back to the moments, documenting the time code. Take everything we can, make our best judgment that we feel is fair, and then we have to adjudicate it.

Related: Everything to Know About The Amazing Race 37

Talk to me more about your reactions to the fandom. I would also imagine that extends to things like fans writing about and even directly contacting contestants based on what they see on the show.
Well, one of the things that I love about our show, is I love that I probably have 12 interactions with fans, on average, a day. I was at Coachella; I was absolutely swamped. I had a hat on; I had glasses on. And still, people recognized me, and I had the best time. And our fans are amazing fans. Our show is not a controversial show. It's like, "We love your show. We love that we can watch the show with our nine-year-old. Our parents, our kids, grandparents, they sit down and watch the show." So I love that our show is the show that people say nice things about and, and, and feel as a family show. And it separates us from other shows. And there's some people that just write reality off altogether, because they've been scarred by what they've been told is a reality show. Our show has a different track record. It just has a different reputation.

So, to answer your question, I personally am not a fan if anybody is interacting with another person on the show, where it, in any way, shape, or form is uncomfortable. It doesn't look appropriate. I'm not a fan. And if I see it, then I will call it out, and I have called it out before. I don't see everything throughout the day personally. And we're very careful; we're not about doing the horrible cuts. Our show is not about, "How do we exploit these people to make entertainment?" We just don't want to necessarily go there because it's just not our show. Some shows rely on it. They rely on controversy. They put them in a room with a whole bunch of alcohol and see what happens. We're not that show. By the way, I'm not judging anybody else making those shows. Those are adults who sign up to go do those things, and they know that they're filmed. And that's their business. I'm just saying that our show is not that show.

One of my favorite characters this season is Rod. I love Rod. Because Rod, he wants to do everything. He's respectful to people. He's loud, he's proud, he's competitive, he's cutthroat, but in a way that's respectful. He honors his opposition. He's like, "Damn! How did they just whoop our ass?" Or when he's confident in something. I love the more positive aspects of being able to show something that maybe a nine-year-old kid is like, "I want to be like Rod." Ricky and César are so positive. And Angie and Danny are absolutely an all-time favorite team for me. I don't want to have to eliminate any team, some more than others. But definitely with them, they're absolutely a fan favorite, which is why I think a lot of people have been bringing up [their elimination].

But I just want to [talk about] when people start talking about, "It was three minutes after this, two minutes after that." I saw some quotes, I'm not sure if it was an interview with you, where a team was talking about how many minutes it was between them and another team. They don't have a clock. We don't disclose to them exact timings. Sometimes, they'll say to me, "How close were we, Phil?" I'll say, "Just a few minutes." A few minutes could be two minutes; it could be 10 minutes. They don't have a clock. So for them to start going out into the world where they say they were only three minutes behind and, had they not done this, that, and the other thing, they would have easily made it up, it's not accurate. It's silly. Like I said, we're doing our best. This is a challenging show to produce. And no matter how much preparation we do, and no matter how many seasons we do, we're always going to run into weird things happening. It's not tennis.

And this goes back to conversations we've had before. There has to be a tremendous amount of trust. We've worked really hard to build the trust of our audience. And I've seen long-standing fans of Amazing Race defending production and choices that we've made because we have a long-standing track record. Everybody loves the "gotchas." They love the, "Oh, I found out it was three minutes between this and that." I would only ask that people don't know what they don't know, and make the assumption that we are going to great lengths to run the fairest possible race that we can. We're making the best decisions that we think are fair for everybody. We do not have favorites when it comes to adjudication. It's got to be what we think is fair based on the evidence that we have at a given time. And it was really hard to eliminate Danny and Angie only because they were a favorite of mine. I love the two of them, and they're great TV. So that's not easy. But based on the information we had, that's the decision we made.

So, you talk about teams that have attracted a lot of online attention. On that note, I do want to talk about Amber and Vinny. I feel like it's been a while since we've seen this type of couple dynamic on the race, where there is clearly a lot of conflict between them as they try to figure out how to get on the same page every leg. What was your perspective as you were watching them run the season?
It never ceases to amaze me sometimes how complicated relationships are, why certain people are attracted to other people, and how people end up in relationships. And I think as I've gotten older, I've become more accepting of what we see and what we assume. Because sometimes, when we see what we assume is a perfect relationship where a couple is really, really nice to each other. The assumption is, "Oh, that must be the perfect relationship. And then you find out later that there are things going on." So, I'm not a relationship expert. And I do love to see couples that really get on or relationships that are really firing really well. But I'm also very aware of the fact that it's impossible to just assess a relationship from the brief encounters that I have with them. It's too hard. But I don't want to see anybody upset. Like I have called out, like, "Hey, maybe take it easy."

Last week, we received news that The Amazing Race is officially returning for Season 37. The 90-minute episodes are here to stay, though the season won't air until the spring of 2025. Is there anything you can tease about what to expect for next season?
We know the audience loves the airports; we know the audience loves mixing things up. We know that the audience loves going to new places, like Slovenia in Season 35. We got so much great feedback about Slovenia, so expect to see some new destinations, and also trying some new things. I'm just trying to spin things up differently, a few change-ups and surprises, I guess you could say. And I think what we have with our show that is truly unique is I'm trying to think of a show that has more surprises than Amazing Race. I don't think I don't think there's a show that has as many surprises.

If you think about it, in any given episode, it's two people standing, ripping a clue. They don't know what's inside that clue. They don't know where they're going to be told to go, what they're going to be told to do, how long it's going to take for them to do what they have to do in that place. It's a surprise every single time they rip an envelope. And I feel that we should be, as a show, making more of that. Because when you watch a dancing show or a singing show, what do you know they're going to be doing on that singing or dancing show?

Singing or dancing.
Right. On Amazing Race, when they're about to rip that envelope, what do you know about what they're going to be doing? They could be singing, dancing, building, climbing, running, leading a herd of goats. It could be getting on another plane. It could be paragliding off a mountain, climbing the side of a mountain, milking a goat, making cheese, going down into a cave. The audience has no idea; the teams have no idea. And I feel like if there's one thing we should be promoting more of on our show. The Amazing Race: A show full of surprises. A surprise in every rip and read!

I love that slogan! Well, speaking of branding, I know that you always have a lot of irons in the fire outside of The Amazing Race. Of course, you've produced five seasons so far of Tough as Nails. And last week, Deadline announced that you have a new "elite physical competition series" in development. Can you give any updates about what you have going on?
Well, I've got multiple projects that I'm working on right now. And we had the brakes pumped on Tough as Nails while some other shows got a shot at going on the network. Of course, we did five seasons in just over two years. So it was a lot. But there's this other idea that we've been wanting to develop for quite some time. So we've been doing some casting for it, and had a very successful shoot a while ago. It's just something new and different. We have really great interest. It's a format that we've already had a lot of international interest in. Formats are hard. As you know, 90% of formats just that get picked up, never make it past season one. That's why we're so proud of Tough as Nails. And there's no guarantee that this will go past Season One. But I feel really good about it. And the casting that we've done, it's killer. So we got something really unique and different. I love developing new formats. I've had some things that have worked and some that haven't. But I feel pretty good about this one.

Next, check out our interview with Yvonne Chavez and Melissa Main, who were eliminated in The Amazing Race 36 Episode 9.