“This Was One Hot Mess”: Lisa Vanderpump, Keke Palmer and the THR Reality Roundtable

“Lisa, how did we not notice this?” Karamo Brown, co-host of Netflix’s Queer Eye and apparent watcher of Bravo’s Vanderpump Rules, has a lot of questions for Lisa Vanderpump. The former Real Housewives of Beverly Hills star’s namesake reality series has been a cultural fixture since March, when one of its original stars (Tom Sandoval) was discovered to have been cheating on his longtime partner (Ariana Madix) with her close friend (Raquel Leviss) for over half a year. The resulting implosion, dubbed “Scandoval,” catapulted the 10-season-old reality series about the social-climbing servers at Vanderpump’s West Hollywood restaurants from minor tabloid fodder to White House Correspondents’ Dinner punchline. Naturally, it was also a hot topic during THR’s Reality Roundtable when Vanderpump joined Brown, Ellie Kemper (co-host of The Great American Baking Show) and Keke Palmer (host of Password) over Zoom in early June. In fact, Brown, Queer Eye’s social oracle and a newly minted talk show host, may have been gunning for a third gig as Vanderpump Rules mediator. “We start filming [season 11] soon, Karamo,” observed Vanderpump. “Are you busy?”

You all spend so much time on camera. When was the last time you really did not want to do it but had to anyway?

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LISA VANDERPUMP Oh. I think for me it was after the breakup of Tom and Ariana. It was so fresh, and we’d stopped filming. For the cameras to suddenly be picked up to capture the moment was essential, but it was really difficult to process. As the executive producer, I wanted it. In front of the camera, I could have done without it.

KARAMO BROWN When I was watching this, I was thinking the entire time, “Why does this woman not have my number?” I would’ve come there and helped you out! I followed the drama and I just was like, “I see where we can fix this.”

VANDERPUMP I don’t think anybody could have fixed it, Karamo.

BROWN Listen, girl, you ain’t met my skills yet. I got you.

VANDERPUMP They’re pretty impressive, but this was one hot mess that still isn’t fixed, by the way. It keeps going.

ELLIE KEMPER Oh, boy. Mine is purely superficial. It was the first time being on camera since the pandemic, since lockdown.

KEKE PALMER Mm-hmm.

KEMPER That was crazy-making, right? Because [you’re] getting your makeup done and everyone’s wearing PPE, plus what the chaos of lockdown had brought to my face — just weathered and old.

VANDERPUMP Not from where I’m sitting!

KEMPER Oh, you’re very kind. We love a circle light.

PALMER For me, it was the weekend after my delivery. Obviously, I took a little break once I had my baby, but I had one last thing that I was supposed to do on camera — like a Zoom situation. I didn’t want to be away from my baby, even upstairs or in another room. So I had my baby on Monday and I was on there on Sunday.

KEMPER No!

VANDERPUMP Oh, Lordy. Too quick.

PALMER Then I was trying to get the breastfeeding, and you know already, girls. You already know.

VANDERPUMP The breasts have a mind of their own.

KEMPER Babies and breasts!

PALMER I’m hoping they don’t get started right now. What about you, Karamo?

BROWN The only time I’ve ever not wanted to be on camera, that I actually felt nerves, was the first day of my talk show. I have been in this comfort zone of always being with the Fab Five, that if something happened, I always knew someone was going to hit a joke. Someone was going to hit a sassy line. This was the first moment that it was like, “No, girl, you got to hit your own sassy line.” We had started filming, and I walked backstage and I actually called the Fab Five on FaceTime and was like, “I just need y’all to pump me up.” And they’re like, “We’re there for you.” And I will never forget that.

Karamo, what has been the biggest learning curve in this transition to talk show host?

BROWN It’s the amount of people. With Queer Eye, we’re blessed to have a week to sit down and talk to each person. I’m able to build the communication and the trust and really understand their issues. With the talk show, I do anywhere from seven to eight shows a day. So I’ll have a mother and daughter having an issue, and I have 47 minutes to figure it out and fix it. We have to get to some resolution, and then we’ve got to move on to the next one.

VANDERPUMP Maybe I should have called you for Vanderpump Rules.

BROWN See, I told you! I would’ve been there. But that’s what I love. And now I’m able to see and identify problems quicker. That was a big learning curve for me.

VANDERPUMP Has anything ever really shocked you?

BROWN Oh, yes. We had a woman come out and say, “I’m just going to be real with you: I only slept with you because I wanted to get to your father, and I’m sleeping with your father.” No one prepped me! And this woman was a Ph.D. I’m not saying that education or income changes your decision-making, but you’d just assume that she was not trying to sleep with her fiancé’s father.

VANDERPUMP When people have letters after their name, you assume they’ve got their life together.

Whether you’ve dabbled or it’s your full-time job, all of you have experience acting — but being yourself on camera, which these jobs require, is a different beast. What was the biggest hurdle in getting to a point where you felt comfortable being yourself with the cameras rolling?

VANDERPUMP Having grown up as a child actress and then kind of retiring when I got married, it’s very different. When I started on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, what was more uncomfortable for me was the confrontational dynamic — not so much the cameras. Through the hundreds of episodes of reality television I’ve done, I’ve been somebody who’s never said, “Take that out.” I feel like if you screw up, then OK, learn from it. So, I think to give up control is one of the hardest things to do, because, as an actor, you have so many parameters.

PALMER Sometimes, as an actor, you feel like you have to be a bland persona to be able to mesh into all these different roles — or you get trapped in whatever role that you’re doing. Especially being a kid actor, developing your personality and figuring out who you are outside of your characters, is this whole other thing. For me, growing up in this age with social media made it easy for me to just show my natural self. I didn’t get on Instagram with the idea like, “I’m going to expand my brand.” I was just kind of like, “Oh, this is the cool thing [where] I can express myself.” Essentially, it became a platform where people just knew me for being me. I felt a lot of freedom from that and still do.

VANDERPUMP If you are true to your authentic self, then I think there are so many people that identify with you. And I can always smell a rat on reality television. If it’s not authentic, it’s not going to work. I’m very much out there, as you guys are, with the restaurant business as well. People do come up to me and they go, “Oh my God, I feel like I know you.”

PALMER I definitely feel like I know you. I love that, though. That’s a testament to your authenticity, because I don’t feel like I know everybody that’s on TV.

Keke, you’re acting, singing, hosting and now running your own platform. In taking this all-you-can-eat-buffet approach to your career right now, what guides you to a “yes”?

PALMER I’m very intuitive in terms of where I should go next. Also, I’m guided by what is possible. I lean into what opportunities come to me and I go with the flow of that. I don’t force anything. I’m happy to be able to do so many different things. I kind of think about myself as a Barbie doll. It’s like, “Keke goes hosting,” “Keke goes acting.” That’s how I see my life. And it’s a lot of fun because it keeps me engaged and it keeps me inspired and creative.

BROWN Keke, when are we getting your Carol Burnett-type show?

PALMER I’d live for that.

KEMPER Do it!

PALMER I feel like it could happen. And when it happens, I’m going to be like, “You see, it was time.”

Lisa, we have to get into this affair that really shook the cast of your show, because it took hold of the national conversation in a way that shows like these rarely do. Ariana was on the homepage of The New York Times. What was your reaction as a producer and as a person — since you are a part of these people’s lives?

VANDERPUMP This went to a whole other level. I went to the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, and it was mentioned in the president’s roast. They brought it up twice! I’m sitting there thinking, “What on earth actually happened to get here?” It wasn’t just an affair. It was compounded by the fact that there were so many different components that were so upsetting. We had Ariana defending Raquel. We had Raquel talking to Ariana about her relationship while she was sleeping with her significant other. We’d seen Tom and Ariana grow together [over] nine years — building a business, living together, buying a house, talking about fertility treatment. It was almost like watching Friends and suddenly you find out that Rachel and Chandler are having an affair. How did I miss it as well? How can I be their friend? How can I be a producer? How can I be a castmember? How can I be an employer and have missed this?

How did you find out?

VANDERPUMP There was a lot of anger from the rest of the cast, even though there were little telltale signs they were starting to pick up on. I found out through production. I was with Ariana five minutes before she found out, kissed her good night. I was devastated for her initially, but I also knew that the fallout of this was going to be huge. Now, if I’m really honest, as a producer, how can you not … I don’t want to say “salivate.” That’s not the right word. But how can you not be caught up in this dynamic that you want to capture? It was moving so quickly. But as a friend, I shed the tears. I shed the tears off camera, on camera. I still feel emotional about it, but everything’s kind of settling down a little bit. Ariana’s really going on to live her best life. Yeah, it was very difficult. But these people behind the camera make the comfort factor where the cast can be vulnerable. That’s a huge part of producing a good show. And I never, ever forget that.

PALMER I love your honesty surrounding the producing, because I feel like that’s for all of us. We’re all living these real moments. But then at the same time, we are entertainers and there’s that aspect that we have to bring to “What do the people want to see?” How can I also be real, but also support what the audience is looking for?

VANDERPUMP For sure. I’ve looked over when we’ve been filming, and I’ve seen a revelation on camera as they’re looking through it and said, as a producer, “Oh my God, that’s great.” And then realize as a person, “Oh my God, that’s not so great.” There is this push and pull, but after so many years, you really do end up caring about each and every one of them. People often say, “Why do you forgive them?” I say, “Because I actually do love them and care about them, and people screw up.”

PALMER I’m curious as to how that is for you, Karamo. Because you are always talking to so many different people. Not to say it’s baggage, but it’s a lot of emotions.

BROWN Listen, I’ve always been a queen that likes to have a lot of purses and bags around, so I don’t mind. Bring your baggage. Bring it all. But it’s a balance. The thing for me is what you all said — that balance of entertainment and making sure we also understand that these are human beings. This is real life. I always make sure that if there’s ever a breakdown, there has to be a breakthrough that comes behind it.

I think the complete opposite of Scandoval is The Great American Baking Show. Ellie, the previous attempt to adapt the British version — which is so huge — for America did not stick (CBS’ The American Baking Competition in 2013). What was the pitch that this one would be different?

KEMPER It’s so funny listening to everyone talk about the scandals and the deep emotions, because I keep thinking, “How do I relate this to The Great American Baking Show?” (Laughs.) Because one of the reasons it works so well is that it is light as air. It’s escape television. I was such a fan of The Great British Bake Off. The stakes are high, but they’re also low, because it’s cake. But we all got really wrapped up in it. The bakers come to the show with emotional stories and these very personal reasons for being there. I found myself crying — both watching the show and hosting the show. And I think the reason it worked so well this time is because the same production company that does The Great British Bake Off did this iteration. Roku just let them do their thing. I’m not trying to use baking puns, but that’s why the recipe worked the first time.

PALMER I love a good pun.

KEMPER And, for better or for worse, there was no backstabbing among the bakers. There was no duplicity. They all really get along. And I do think that there was some wholesomeness about that that’s very appealing to people.

PALMER I feel the same way that you do about Password. You don’t want just spicy food all the time. People do want wholesome. They do want something they can just sit down and watch with their kids. We’re just chilling and having a good time. The world needs that. Life is heavy.

KEMPER The escape cuts both ways because you can escape into something wholesome and sweet, or the scandal that you’re living vicariously through.

PALMER You don’t want it in your life, but you’re glad that they’ve got it to share with you!

BROWN Keke, we were watching Password, and I swore you wanted to tell this woman a hint. I could tell you [were] rooting for her. You did not. But you [were] looking at her like, “Girl, if you don’t get this …” I could not stop laughing.

PALMER I get attached to people!

KEMPER I asked one of the producers if Zach Cherry, my co-host, and I could have lunch with the bakers before starting the show — just to get to know them. And they very politely were like, “No, we don’t want you to get to know them too well,” for that very reason. I mean, I privately was rooting for one particular person all along. You can’t help but develop that attachment.

Lisa, you’re going back to shooting in a couple of weeks. Many of your castmembers are not speaking to one another. How does the series look moving forward?

VANDERPUMP These people have existing relationships that go on regardless of whether we’re filming, so I think it’d be foolish if we didn’t pick it up now. Yes, it’s going to be difficult and there are bridges that are going to be crossed, or maybe they won’t be. I don’t see the future of Tom and Ariana ever having a mutually respectful relationship. I think that is done. Now, Tom has had existing relationships with these people for longer than they’ve been on the show. So I hope to facilitate some type of cohesion somewhere along the line. They’re not a perfect group, and I’m not saying they should forgive him, but everybody at some point has to move forward. I’ve been criticized because they say I’ve been lenient on him. But I feel almost like a mother to these children. When everybody’s piling on one child, what do you do? You don’t jump on it, too. You then try to think, “How are we going to process it and how are we going to move forward?” So that’s what I’m going to have to do. It’s not going to be easy. But I guess that’s again the ingredient.

BROWN Lisa, it’s funny because one of the things that I love about you and the show is that — especially this season — you play more of a host role.

KEMPER Yeah!

PALMER The orchestrator.

VANDERPUMP I would never have orchestrated this hot mess.

BROWN Of course not. But you’re navigating it. That’s what the host does. You come in, navigate and make sure you give great advice.

VANDERPUMP I see it from more of a matriarchal figure.

PALMER What sign are you?

VANDERPUMP A Virgo.

PALMER I know you are a Virgo, because I am, too. I could feel it. I said, “She’s a Virgo.” Because, yes, you’re giving mother, honey.

VANDERPUMP Listen, I can’t say reality TV is a difficult job. There are many people in this world with a difficult job, and this isn’t one of them. But it’s complicated.

Lisa, there is near-constant speculation online that you could return to the Real Housewives franchise. Any truth there?

VANDERPUMP Oh, well, you heard it from me right here, right now. No.

Well, there we go. Karamo, Queer Eye is the longest-running unscripted Netflix show. How do the five of you discuss the future?

BROWN Well, it’s not up to us, as we all know. The five of us, we’d go forever on that show. It allowed us to have these amazing careers. None of us wants to leave. We’re hoping that we’ll keep going on.

VANDERPUMP Do you have a choice in who the subjects are, or does production do that?

BROWN Production does it. We don’t find out anything until the morning we meet them.

VANDERPUMP Do you ever think, “You know what? I can’t help you. You’re not listening.” Have you ever been there?

BROWN We’ve had two episodes where the five of us looked at each other and said, “This person doesn’t want it.” We were upset, because we have thousands upon thousands of people apply. And when you get somebody who gets in there and then doesn’t want the experience, it’s disrespectful to everyone else who applied.

PALMER It can be overwhelming. When people get in that spotlight, they don’t know how to grab hold.

BROWN One hundred percent. But let me tell you the difference with this one. I’m checking in and I constantly shut down the cameras and say, “This person is overwhelmed.”

VANDERPUMP Really?

BROWN All the time. And if you’re overwhelmed and you have someone like myself, who was a licensed [social worker] for many years, telling you, “I can work with you on this journey,” and you still refuse it, all right. We never give up on him. We’ll go all the way to that Friday afternoon and say, “We’re still rooting for you.” But once we’ve given them their keys back, we’re like, “OK, bye, girl. See you later.”

All right. Before we wrap things up, I have a couple of rapid-fire questions for y’all. What’s everyone’s guilty pleasure TV?

PALMER I mean, reality TV. I eat it up. I can get into the really salacious ones.

BROWN I love old talk shows from the ’90s — Sally Jessy Raphael, Phil Donahue. I will go down the rabbit hole.

KEMPER It’s such good television. That’s why I can’t qualify it as guilty, because I’m like, “No, I feel good about watching these.”

BROWN And it’s really the catalyst for the reality shows we know today. You’ll see this segment on Phil Donahue and it’s the exact same thing as The Kardashians.

VANDERPUMP I’m ridiculous, but if I see Westminster or another dog competition, I can just sit there. I have seven dogs in my house, which are actually being very well behaved downstairs. Doggy porn to me is everything.

What’s the most awkward thing that’s ever happened to you all on camera that made it to air?

PALMER This got really popular for me, but it was a very awkward and genuine moment —

BROWN “I don’t know this man!”

PALMER Yeah, when I said I didn’t know who Dick Cheney was. That was crazy. And awkward. But it just ended up becoming a thing.

VANDERPUMP Fainting on Dancing With the Stars wasn’t a good look.

Anything from your time on The Real World, Karamo?

BROWN The whole thing. They just put it on [Paramount+], and people are watching it again. That was almost 20 years ago. I mean, I was cute, but …

PALMER That was very iconic — for culture, for the community, for Black queers. You ate it up. I will never forget that. You impacted me.

BROWN Thank you. But everything I did on that show, I’m like, “What was I …” But we didn’t really know what reality TV was back then. There was no career to make out of it like today. You just go on there and act a fool.

PALMER When you think about the producing of that show, as an adult now … they were putting opposing ideals in a house together.

BROWN In a house. In a house.

PALMER Honey, talk about somebody putting a mess together. You guys were doing a science experiment. “Let’s take this person that hates blue and this person that loves blue in the house together and see what happens!”

BROWN The first day I walked in that house, in the first 10 minutes, one of my white roommates was from Nashville and he said, “I’ve never met a Black person before.” I was like, “Oh, I see where we’re going.”

VANDERPUMP Looking at things on TV that you’ve done is like looking through those old packs of photographs. “This is awful. This is awful. This is awful. Oh, I quite like this one.” You’ve got to let a lot of it go.

KEMPER The nice thing, even though everything is around forever because of the internet, is that there’s so much of it. If something is out there that you can’t control, it’s out there — but so is so much else. So just give it over to the ocean of content.

VANDERPUMP Well, when they flash back to 10 years ago and you’re like, “Whoa, hold on a second. I looked like that? What the hell?” That’s not easy.

KEMPER My reality TV experience is somewhat limited, so this will sound lame and benign. But, in Jim and Pam’s wedding episode of The Office, we’re doing a dance and I leap up and I was wearing a Hanes pair of underpants. Like briefs — not cute pink underpants. And that wasn’t a character choice. It was an Ellie choice, wearing a comfortable pair of sensible underpants. It was a scripted show. They could have edited that.

VANDERPUMP I feel an endorsement from Hanes coming up!

Interview edited for length and clarity. 

This story first appeared in a June stand-alone issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. To receive the magazine, click here to subscribe.

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