Murray Bartlett (‘Welcome to Chippendales’): ‘It’s very seductive to play a character like Nick De Noia’ [Complete Interview Transcript]

During a recent Gold Derby video interview, senior editor Rob Licuria spoke in-depth with Murray Bartlett (“Welcome to Chippendales”) about his Hulu limited series, which is eligible at the 2023 Emmys. Watch the full video above and read the complete interview transcript below.

In “Welcome to Chippendales,” Bartlett follows up his Emmy-winning “The White Lotus” role with his acclaimed portrayal of the late choreographer/director Nick De Noia. The eight-episode show was created by Robert Siegel (“Pam & Tommy”) and inspired by the book “Deadly Dance: The Chippendales Murders” by K. Scot Macdonald and Patrick MontesDeOca.

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“It’s very seductive to play a character like Nick De Noia,” the actor explained in our webchat. “He’s a choreographer and he was very larger than life.” Bartlett revealed that “the joy of it” was “being able to take a character that might seem larger than life and make them relatable … that’s what I’m looking for and trying to plot.”

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Rob Licuria: I’m Rob Licuria, senior editor at Gold Derby, here with Emmy winner Murray Bartlett, who stars in Welcome to Chippendales and guest starred in The Last of Us. First of all, Murray, we might as well just address it now, you are now an Emmy winner. You’ve just been winning awards left, right and center, it’s probably no big deal now, but tell me what that was like on Emmy night.

Murray Bartlett: Oh my god, I feel like you’re maybe the first person to say Emmy winner Murray Bartlett. To me, that was quite shocking in a lovely way. Yeah, it’s such a surreal kind of thing to be called up onto that stage. It’s so beautiful. It was interesting because we’d been on such a long and wild road with White Lotus, which is what I won the Emmy for, because we shot during the pandemic and then it was the Emmys that the show was nominated in was two years later or something like that. It felt like the distant past, in a way. White Lotus got honored in many categories that night. I was the first one, which was just so joyful and amazing to celebrate with this incredible group of people who I hadn’t seen much because it was still … I know we’re not fully out of the pandemic, but we were still fairly in the pandemic. We hadn’t seen each other a lot since we’d shot the show, so it was beautiful to be back with them. Then it just kept ramping up because the show kept getting all these honors in that night. It was an extraordinary, surreal, very, very happy night.

RL: Yeah, I can imagine it was. When we look forward now, something occurred to me yesterday, it’s not rocket science, but Armand was killed in White Lotus, and Nick, he’s murdered in Chippendales, Frank tragically dies in The Last of Us. I’m a little worried about you, mate. What’s happening? You keep dying on screen, it’s sad.

MB: I know. The thing about it is that then I get to go onto another great job, so there is a silver lining I guess for me. But yeah, I don’t know, there is something. Maybe I die well or maybe people see me as a guy heading for an untimely ending. I don’t know, I don’t know what it is, but I’m not complaining because it’s allowed me to do some really great stuff and not have to stay alive as one character to stop me from playing the next.

RL: Exactly. It’s good you’re getting so much attention and praise and I’m like, “That’s better than a kick in the face,” so I’m all over it. I love it.

MB: Me too.

RL: Also, I want to get a little deep for a second, because it reminded me that you are really good at eliciting empathy and compassion through really compelling vulnerability. I remember back in the days when you were on Looking and other shows you’ve been in, I remember when you were in A Country Practice, Home and Away, and Neighbors, but that’s a long time ago. You’re really good at that, really good at that. I think a lot of that has to do with the rapport that you get with your scene partners. It was so evident with Nick Offerman and it was very much evident with Kumail, Andrew and Juliette in Chippendales. I’m curious what your perspective is on what’s the key to being the best scene partner.

MB: Oh, wow. Well, thank you for saying that. That’s one of the highest compliments for me because I feel like that’s what it’s all about. I tend to over-prepare. I think initially that came from fear of not being prepared, but now I just love to dig in and find as much as I can and bring as much as I can to set. But then when I get to set, I want to let all that be there and just acting is just … This is a cliche and acting 101, but it is easy to forget that acting is talking and listening. If you can bring yourself back to that and bring all the stuff, whatever, research or whatever, the music you listen to, whatever you do to prepare, bring that, but let the forefront be I’m just going to key into what this other person is doing. I feel like that’s where my performance comes from. My performance comes from what am I getting from this person and what are we creating in this moment together. They’re giving me something for me to bounce off. We’re trying to create life happening in the moment on camera. If you can release into that and just let yourself surrender to that, I feel like you’ve got a good chance of it feeling real and being surprised by what happens, because people are inevitably going to fire things at you that you don’t expect and to go with that and see what comes from it, I think it’s the thing that is most enjoyable for me. I think when I watch things back or when I watch other actors that I admire it’s the thing that I think I’m seeing, of them fully being engaged with the person that they’re in the scene with. There’s some courage in that I think, and there’s some sort of surrender in that of letting go what you’ve prepared and being vulnerable and seeing what happens, jumping off the cliff with your scene partner. I think that’s the whole point for me. That’s where the magic happens or where it can happen. It’s the feeling that you want when you’re an actor, of really being fully there in the moment, creating something spontaneously with somebody.

RL: Yeah. As a viewer, it’s just so magic when you watch those two people or three people firing on screen. I think it probably takes a lot of agility as well, someone like yourself. You’ve been working for quite a long time and so experience comes into it, life experience plus experience on set. I think that is a big factor up, from my perspective, for Nick De Noia, the character that you play in Chippendales. You recently scored a Critic’s Choice nomination for that. My sense from reading the reviews of the show was that people and critics really appreciated that your version of Nick wasn’t a caricature, because it could have just been a crazy guy full of swagger who chews the scenery, but you were able, with obviously the creators and writers, and particularly in the pilot directed by Mac Chapman, there’s a lot of going on there behind the scenes and behind his eyes. I’m curious as well then, what were you doing, if you’re a guy that prepares a lot, to get into his head and understand who he is or who he was?

MB: Yeah. I think since doing White Lotus, some of the characters that have come my way have been these larger than life characters, which is awesome. Those kind of characters didn’t come my way before that, as much anyway. What’s interesting to me about those kind of characters is, well, yeah, they’re this larger than life thing, but you see characters in real life that if you put them on screen you might not believe them. There are a lot of larger than life characters in life, but we always have a public face and a private face or a face that we don’t show to the public. My fascination with these kind of characters is where are their vulnerabilities, where does this come from, is it hiding things, or is it not hiding things, but where does that not hiding things come from, what makes them tick, what’s underneath all that stuff, and then finding opportunities to have a window into that, into what’s behind this larger than life character, whether it’s a moment by themselves or a moment where you just see them hesitate or you see them panic. Flooding those moments, which I think anchors them in something that feels human rather than just a cartoon character, which can be super fun to play and it’s very seductive to play a character like Nick De Noia because he’s a choreographer and he was very larger than life. He created that image or really lent into that thing of, “I’m a famous director,” even when he wasn’t and really projecting this idea of Nick De Noia, but then getting to his play scenes where he’s dancing alone with this scarf, and the pain that goes into what he’s creating and what he does when he’s in a private moment and the vulnerability when he has to break up with Denise, Juliette Lewis’ character, and the vulnerabilities that he has with Andrew Rannells’ character. I think those are the anchor points for a larger than life character. That that’s the joy of it for me, finding those anchor points and being able to take a character that might seem larger than life and make them relatable, finding those points where people are like, “Oh, I feel for this person,” or, “I recognize that in myself,” or, “Now I understand why they’re larger than life or why they’re projecting all this stuff.” Yeah, that’s what I’m looking for and trying to plot.

RL: Yeah, I didn’t know a lot about him and I expected to not like him, and that went away pretty quickly. I think the scene, I think it was in episode one, when he’s dancing on his own in the apartment with the handkerchief, was initially startling because I’m like, “What is he doing?” Then I realized it was just a way for us to see into his more private side. He’s so introspective and really cares about the craft. I’m wondering, when you have to do stuff like that, and also all the choreography, all the body rolls and the pizazz, is that fun or is it daunting to put yourself out there like that on screen?

MB: It’s both, I think. It’s mostly fun and exciting. I love to have a challenge as an actor. If I’m playing a choreographer, I want to look like I’m a choreographer. We had great choreographers that I was working with who tailored things for me, the things that I could manage, but then I drilled that stuff and I watched All That Jazz and watched documentaries about choreographers. I love that. There is that sort of element of, “Ugh, am I going to make it fool of myself or am I going to be able to do this?” But it’s a great challenge. We, as actors, get to be other people and I got to learn dance moves and pretend to be a choreographer and lead this whole big space of dancers through this routine. That is the fun for me, but yeah, to say that it’s not daunting at some point would be a lie because you’re like, “Ugh, I hope I can do this,” but it’s exciting. That private moment with Nick when he’s dancing, there’s some challenge in getting the moves and making them feel organic, but I love what it reveals about that character. I think it doesn’t necessarily make you like him, but it makes you understand his love for what he’s creating. He’s really invested and it’s personal for him, he feels it. You might not necessarily understand that when you’re just seeing him ordering people around on the rehearsal room floor, but there’s deep love and commitment for what he’s doing, which I think is the case for most creative visionaries. It was a wonderful thing for me to be able to have that opportunity in that scene to show that side of him.

RL: Yeah. We needed a lot of those moments because if you know the story of Nick De Noia, he’s murdered by someone hired by Steve Banerjee. It’s an ultimately tragic ending and we know it’s coming, but when it does happen in episode seven, I found it so unsettling the way that sequence was shot and edited. A lot of it is we’re really leaning on Andrew Rannells, who is such an amazing actor, but before he leaves the room to go to the bathroom you do a couple of inflections. You really don’t say much at all, but you can see how vulnerable and raw he is. He says, “I’ll miss you,” and then two minutes later he’s gone. What did you think about the way the whole sequence was laid out, because it’s pretty good.

MB: I love it. As we talked about before, I think Nick was a very obsessive person, obsessed about being successful, obsessed about his creative vision and manifesting it. It has filled up his life and I don’t know that he ever thought that he would find something like he finds with the Andrew Rannells character. When he does find that, later in our story … He finds it with Denise, but it’s different because they’re work partners, they’re sort of the perfect partners in a lot of ways, but for him it doesn’t drop into that sexually intimate, baring your soul kind of thing to the extent that it does with the Andrew Rannells character. I think what’s beautiful about that scene you’re talking about just before Nick is murdered, is that it’s almost like he’s just arriving at that point of really understanding what love is and true intimacy is with this person. You see it in those last few moments. Originally, it was written that I think Nick says, “I love you,” or one of them says, “I love you,” then we cut it. We talked with the writers and they cut it or we all decided to cut it together, and now they just say it to each other without saying it. I’m really proud of that moment because I feel like you see that. I think, exactly, it’s this he’s just getting to that moment of baring his soul with someone and feeling super vulnerable in this, “I love you, you love me. Wow, I never thought this was possible,” and then it’s snatched away, which I think it adds to the impact of the moment. Yeah, I really love that traject trajectory that the writers created and that we were able to ride.

RL: Yeah, it’s genius, yeah. Saying, “I love you,” would’ve been fine, but this way just got me. I think it’s why this show has really resonated and people really love it. Speaking of, as we alluded to earlier, you guest starred in The Last Of Us, episode three, I didn’t see that one coming either. I was blown away, like everybody else. What an episode of television, it’s one of the best ever. I’m not being hyperbolic here, and I’m sure you’ve heard that a lot. When you read the script and then you’re on set with amazing artists, cinematographer Evan Bolter, and Nick Offerman obviously, what were your thoughts when you were about to launch into that?

MB: It’s an incredible script and we all knew that it was. I don’t think I even had the full script when I was auditioning for it, I think I just had the scenes, but there were scenes from throughout the episode and I could tell how beautiful it was. Then when I read the script I was just completely blown away, and everybody was. I’ve never had this experience before, where Nick and I arrived on set or to the trailers in the morning before we went into makeup, and we went into makeup and everyone was like, “Aw,” and then we get to set and everyone’s like, “Aw, this episode.” There was such love for that episode and such reverence. We shot over the course of a month, I think, and it was almost like the whole month was just this hushed, we get to tell this beautiful story. There was this excitement and trepidation of, “Wow, this is an extraordinary script. I hope we can do justice to it,” but then Nick, who I’d never worked with before, Nick and I had a really wonderful connection and chemistry and both loved what we were doing so much. As you said, Evan, the cinematographer, is just phenomenal, our incredible director, Peter Hoar, and Craig and Neil watching over us, it was an amazing coming together of really talented people with just this extraordinary script and such a beautiful story. Also, you never know how that’s going to resonate or if it’s going to resonate with people. We loved it, it was a very special experience. It was very emotional and we felt like what we were doing was … It felt like it had some magic in it, it felt really beautiful. Even so, sometimes you can feel like that and it doesn’t end up that way on the screen.

RL: Yeah, that’s right.

MB: But it resonated with people in the way that we hoped it would, well, beyond what we hoped it would really. To feel that the love that we poured into it created this wave of love that people felt about the episode, it’s what you want as an actor or as a storyteller or some sort of filmmaker, TV maker, whatever. Yeah, it was a beautiful experience from beginning to end.

RL: Of course, because it contemplates what it means to be loved and to love, but in a post-apocalyptic setting, and of course, without being too reductive, it’s my final question, it was also dedicating an entire episode of this huge HBO blockbuster to a timeless and beautiful queer love story that was so praised by everybody that everybody was able to join in on and it will never be forgotten. Final thoughts, how do you feel about that, that we can watch an episode like that and really love it? It doesn’t matter who the two people at the center of the story are, but it kind of does actually in this instance.

MB: Yeah, I think it’s a really beautiful thing and I think it’s very smart of the creators writers to sneak it in that way, not sneak it in, but you’re just not expecting it when you’re watching the show, I don’t think. That’s the feedback that I’ve gotten from people and it was what I felt when I read those first scripts. You’re in this post-apocalyptic world, it’s harrowing. There’s human stories at the heart of it, which are really beautifully done, however, you just don’t expect it to take this left turn. I think it’s disarming in that way, because you can’t put up defenses, you can’t bring any judgments that you might have about a queer story or a queer love story or whatever. I feel like it’s so unexpected that before you know it you’re in it. It’s a beautifully written love story, I think beautifully told, with this team of people. It’s just before you know you’re engaged in it. It’s a beautiful love story, whether it was between two men, or a man and a woman, or two women, or whatever, it transcends gender and sexuality. It’s a testament to the fact that love can triumph even in great darkness. It’s such a beautiful story to tell. I think you’re right, it’s amazing that it happened to be a queer love story that seemed to resonate with a lot of people, and I know with a lot of people that may not necessarily often resonate with love stories. It’s such a beautiful thing, I think, for people to connect to this human love story. Hopefully it nudges people’s boundaries a little bit and opens people’s minds a little bit, as well as just making them believe in love.

RL: Yeah.

MB: It’s a good thing.

RL: Exactly, in the immortal words of Cher. Murray, thank you so much for your time today. Congratulations on all this great work. I can’t wait to see what you’re going to be in next.

MB: Thanks, so great to talk to you always.

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