Meghan Markle Says 'Difficult' Is 'Code Word for the B-Word' in Latest Podcast Episode

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In her latest podcast episode, Meghan Markle is dissecting the word "bitch" — and how it's used to gaslight strong women.

The Duchess of Sussex, 41, dropped the latest episode of her Archetypes podcast Tuesday, where she welcomed Mellody Hobson, co-CEO of Ariel Investments and chairwoman of Starbucks, and Victoria Jackson, makeup mogul and medical advocate. In a conversation titled "To 'B' or Not to 'B'?," they unpacked the charged term that holds women back, especially in the working world.

Meghan, who described herself as a "word nerd" in the episode's intro and never said "bitch," instead using the term the "B-word" or spelling it out, first welcomed Robin Thede, writer and creator of A Black Lady Sketch Show, who argued that the negative label is "still just used to describe a woman who goes after what she wants" and isn't afraid to say no.

In a voiceover, Meghan said that the implication of the "very charged word" is that such women are "difficult."

"Which is really just a euphemism, or is probably not even a euphemism. It's really a code word for the B-word," she said before Thede dug into the power of reclaiming the word. While Meghan later said that she had "zero interest" in doing the same and joked that she hates the term so much that the conversation was giving her "hives," she praised the notion, saying, "these women I respect, whose work I love, a lot of them are entirely comfortable with that. They want to do that, to take the power out of it."

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Introducing zoologist Lucy Cook, author of Bitch: A Revolutionary Guide to Sex, Evolution and the Female Animal, Meghan pointed out a parallel "especially in the context of this, larger notion of difficult women who are threatening the human social order. Being masculine is being aggressive and dominant and being feminine is being submissive."

"It really annoys me, these labels, because actually being feminine, you know, amongst the animal kingdom, involves being aggressive and promiscuous and competitive, and dominant, and dynamic and varied and all the things that males are so these distinctions between masculine and feminine," Cook offered. "And I think are our cultural not biological. I don't think the word 'bitch' should be a swear word, why? Should be being a bitch, a bad thing."

In another voiceover, Meghan reflected, "So, perhaps the truth is that labeling a woman is the B-word, or is difficult, is often a deflection, a way to hide some of her really awesome qualities, her persistence, her strength, her perseverance, her strong opinion, maybe even her resilience."

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Later, she broke down how calling a woman "the B-word, labeling them as 'difficult,' it's often a way to insult and dismiss."

"I was talking to a good girlfriend of mine this past weekend and when I saw her, she said something I had never heard before — 'Well, isn't that a convenient villain' — an assertive woman in a position of power, being called the b-word? How very convenient," the Duchess of Sussex said. "But that's what happens when we label someone, a woman, especially, one of these words. it becomes a way to take their power away. Keep them in their place. A lot of times it's tied to the very women who have power and agency, as my friend was suggesting who aren't comfortable being silent, like, businesswomen and entrepreneurs."

Tuesday's conversation was the ninth episode of Archetypes, which debuted on Spotify in August. Programming was paused following the death of Queen Elizabeth II on Sept. 8, and the weekly release of new episodes resumed a month later.

Meghan and Prince Harry first announced a "multi-year partnership" between Spotify and their production company Archewell Audio in 2020. According to a previously shared press release, Archetypes intends to "investigate the labels that try to hold women back."

Previous guests have included Serena Williams, Mariah Carey, Mindy Kaling, Margaret Cho, Lisa Ling, Constance Wu, Paris Hilton and Issa Rae for conversations on ambition, race, mental health and more.

Last week, Meghan welcomed Sophie Trudeau, Pamela Adlon and Sam Jay for a chat called "Good Wife/Bad Wife, Good Mom/Bad Mom," where she opened up about the "morning rush" at home in Montecito, California with two little ones. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are parents to son Archie, 3, and daughter Lilibet, 1.

"Lili has just started walking," Meghan told Adlon. "She's a year and a couple of months old." The host added that with Archie being 3, she's "in the thick of it — toddling."

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"I'm sure it'll only get more chaotic as they get older," she added. "But for me, it's, you know, both monitors on for the kids to hear them, always up with Lili, get her downstairs, then a half hour later, Archie's up. I start doing his lunchbox right before he's up while I have her, getting her a little nibble. My husband's helping me get him downstairs."

Giving another glimpse into her family's routine and rhythm, Meghan said that she makes breakfast for her family each day.

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"I make breakfast for all three of them. It's very important to me. I love doing it," she said. "To me, it just feels like the greatest way to start the morning."

The podcast host added that she also feeds their three dogs, referring to pets Guy, Pula and Mia.

"Then get Archie out the door for school, but it does, it feels like a whirlwind," she said.

New episodes of Archetypes hit Spotify on Tuesdays.