The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel star Michael Zegen talks Joel's sacrifice and evolution
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Warning: This article contains spoilers about The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel season 5, episode 6.
Guilt is a hell of a motivator.
At least for Joel Maisel (Michael Zegen) it is. On the sixth episode of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel's final season, we learn why Joel is in jail in the future. After he learns that Susie (Alex Borstein) is in over her head with Frank (Erik Palladino) and Nicky (John Scurti), Joel approaches them on their own turf (an Italian restaurant, naturally). There, he makes a deal to protect Midge (Rachel Brosnahan) — they give up any stake in her and her act in exchange for a piece of Joel's clubs.
Of course, this eventually comes back to bite Joel when he's arrested by the FBI in the middle of synagogue surrounded by his family and friends. This exposes the truth — that he saved Midge after Susie basically sold her to the mob. Midge, furious at this revelation, blows up at Susie and their relationship fractures in what seems an insurmountable break.
Philippe Antonello/Prime Video Michael Zegen on 'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel'
All of this is a far cry from the Joel of season 1, who cheated on Midge and then left her. That character arc was creator Amy Sherman-Palladino's goal from the start. "It was a personal pet peeve of mind that these shows would start with people as a couple, and then suddenly the guy was just an a--hole," she tells EW. "I wanted people to know there was a Joel that Midge was so in love with and made her so happy. To do that, Joel had to be a real person and he had to have good sides and bad sides. He was a guy who was young, and he f--ed up, and the rest of his life was a decision to try and fix what he broke. That is a tragic hero."
If anyone was grateful for that arc, it was Zegen, who's spent six years playing Joel, sometimes to harassment from viewers. "Other than Midge, he's the one who has evolved the most," he says. "It's almost like he's a different person. He's learned a lot and he's matured. He was young and acting like a baby; he was the villain."
"I love how people have come around to Joel," he adds. "When the first season came out, I loved being on the show, don't get me wrong. But it wasn't fun when people would come up to me and be like, 'I hate you.' I'm thankful that in the last couple of seasons people have told me, 'I hated you, but now I love you.'"
It's not just audiences who have started loving Joel — it's Midge too (if she ever stopped). They've found a fragile peace as co-parents and friends, looking out for each other in various ways. "Their bond is only second to the one that Midge and Susie have," Brosnahan says. "They love each other deeply. They grew up together. They became parents together, and they've seen each other at their highest highs and their lowest lows. They're deeply intertwined forever. Amy said to me early on — and it's been a north star — that they will always love each other, but that they'll never be on the same page at the same time. Midge will always think of the day before Joel left her as being the happiest day of her life."
But the day of Joel's arrest is far from the happiest day of her life. We called up Zegen to get more details on why Joel makes this sacrifice, what he thinks it means for him and Midge, and what Joel thinks about Susie and Midge's break-up.
Philippe Antonello/Prime Video Joel (Michael Zegens) begins to realize the predicament Midge is in with the mob on 'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel'
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Joel decides to put his life and business on the line to protect Midge. Why?
MICHAEL ZEGEN: He loves Midge. Since he wronged her all those years ago, he's been trying to make up for it, and this seemed like a reasonable solution to that. Even though him leaving her in that first episode jump started this newfound career of hers and ultimately led to a better life, deep down he's never really been able to come to terms with what he did. Despite the fact that it led to this new lavish lifestyle for her, he's always retained feeling guilty.
Does he fully understand how dangerous Frank and Nicky are?
He knows that they're dangerous for sure, but I don't know if he thought it was ever going to lead to him serving time in prison. He knows that any sort of organized crime is not going to end well. But I don't think he knew the total ramifications.
Were there points along the way that we don't see where he tried to pay them off or get out of it?
I don't know. But I would sure love to see that at some point. Maybe if we do a movie set in the '70s somewhere down the line we could have a scene or two with that.
This FBI raid at the synagogue is such a classic Maisel moment. What was your reaction when you first read it?
Suddenly everything made sense. Combined with the flashback where he's talking to Frank and Nicky at the bar, it all made sense because going into that last scene that we did in the prison, I honestly didn't even know why he was in prison. That being said, the first thing that I thought about was, "Oh no, not another synagogue scene." Because we filmed in the synagogue every year, and it's always miserable in there. It's so hot and we're wearing suits. I knew we were going to be broiling in there and we were.
Philippe Antonello/Prime Video Rachel Brosnahan and Michael Zegen on 'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel'
He fully takes the rap, but Midge blames Susie. Does any part of him want to blame her or throw her under the bus in this moment?
No. At this point, he's taken the blame. Sure, he'd like to throw Susie under the bus, but it's so far down the line, it doesn't matter anymore. He did what he did and he's going to pay the consequences.
Midge tells Susie that Joel saved her. Do you agree and what do you think would've happened if he hadn't intervened?
Sure, I would say he saved her. I don't know what would've happened. Maybe they would've gotten mixed up with some other criminals. He knew that Susie and Midge doing business with these guys was never going to end well. I don't think anybody thinks it's going to end well if you suddenly do business with the mafia. He did what he did, and I don't think he has any regrets.
This arrest fractures Susie and Midge's relationship. How do you think he feels about that? Does he want Midge to make amends with Susie?
That's a tricky question. He's always had a real love-hate relationship with Susie. But it's so far down the line that Midge is already famous and she already has this amazing career. It's sort of moot at this point. But he probably always wanted her to find a different manager.
Philippe Antonello/Prime Video Midge (Rachel Brosnahan) and Joel (Michael Zegen) share a rare romantic moment on the fire escape in 'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel'
His choosing to do this feels like his penance for leaving her. He basically goes to jail for her. Can he finally feel like he's atoned?
That guilt that you have when you did something wrong never really goes away. Despite the fact that she's had so much success in this career that was only started because of what he did to her, it doesn't matter. He's always going to have this guilt, and he's always going to wonder what could have happened if he had never left her? He wronged her, and he's still paying for that in his mind.
There's a lot of time between the early 1960s and his going to jail. Do you think they ever get back together?
If they do, it's never for more than one night. I personally don't think they ever got back together. They're always going to be in each other's lives. They share children together and they'll always have this shared love for each other. But they're better off leading these separate lives.
That being said, Joel will love Midge until his dying breath, yes?
For sure. The fact of the matter is they got married very young, and I don't think they were quite ready to have children and start these lives together. That's part of the reason why everything blew up. Both of them didn't know what they wanted out of life. But he'll always have love for Midge.
This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.
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