Mano a Mano with Royce Gracie
One-on-one interview with the UFC Hall of Famer. To donate to the "Fight Back" campaign - where 100% of proceeds go to support front line responders with Personal Protection equipment, visit the Red Cross donation link here.
Video Transcript
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ROYCE GRACIE: I grew up in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu I was-- I was born practically on the mats. My family already did this for many years back in Brazil. Yes, to America, it was new, but back in Brazil, former presidents-- I think it was two former presidents took class with my father. My father taught everybody back in the day.
It's not a question of having a choice and not. Do I think we look at it? You want your kid to be a football player, you give him a football for Christmas every year. He can choose to play baseball, but how is he-- you see, it's like we're guiding. We're not choosing. So the moment they say, hey, I want to do this. Hey, go ahead. We'll back them up. Not a problem.
Not harder. He treated us like another student. He wasn't, OK, I'm more in demand than that guy. You've got to do more. No. A lot of people think that my father taught us how to fight. No, he taught us how to teach. Fighting was just for the fun of it, just for the hell of it.
Before there was Pele, before there was Ronaldinho, before there were these soccer players, volleyball, beach volleyball, basketball, there was my father. My father was the first national hero in sports. There was nothing before.
That was way before Tele. That was pretty much-- people think, oh, my god, Tele was the first one. My father came before him in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu So it's been around in Brazil for a long time.
So it's that old-- it takes 10 years for overnight success. People look. It's like, oh, my god, they just came out of nowhere, built the UFC, and started the fighting business. No. People don't know that Rorion, when he first came to America, he can't handle. Slept on the streets . Spent a year like this.
The Gracie name could be a blessing. It can be a curse. If you know Jiu-Jitsu it's a blessing. If you don't know, it will be a curse. It's a very heavy name to carry around. That's why we tell the members of the family, hey, we're coming from self-defense fighting our family, so you better know.
You don't have to follow the career, but you have to know how to defend yourself. People will challenge you. People will come up and say, hey, your father, your uncle, your cousins, your brothers, they all fought. How about you? Uh, no, I'm a soccer player. It's like, really? You better know how to defend yourself.
So we don't-- we don't force the family members to follow the footsteps to become a fighter, to become a teacher. You can do whatever you want. You just have to know how to defend yourself. You better know because the question will come up.
About 14 years old.
- What happened?
ROYCE GRACIE: [LAUGHS] I knew I can give a man a hard time. 14 is still a kid. And the adults are having a hard time rolling with me, just sparring. It gives a power for a 14-year-old. And it's like, wow, I'm dealing with a man. And he has a hard time with me.
When another 14-year-old gets in a confrontation, it's almost like, look, dude, just walk away. You are nothing. You're a kid. Because I fight men.
For you to know-- a student of mine a long time ago once brought his son maybe six, seven years old to the academy. And the father introduced-- the father is just a blue belt just starting up Jiu-Jitsu about a year into training, year and a half. Hey, this is my son.
The kid looked at me. He was like, I can beat you. I was like, nice to meet you too, little guy. What makes you think you can beat me? Because I can beat my dad. My dad beats you. I go, oh, really, dad?
You see, but that's the-- a kid at that age getting used to spar with the father and beating the father, he took me like a man. He's like, you're nothing. I can beat you because I can beat him. He's big too.
At that age, it's like-- it's almost like there's so many of us in the Gracie family that try to come like, hey, I can do this. Put me in, guys. Reverse psychology. Nah. You're not that good. What do you mean I'm not that good? Now, we're going to put the other broad, the other curse.
It's like, what about me? Choose me. Choose me. Eh, you're not made for this. You don't have the heart. What? I'll prove you guys. Put me in. Come on. It's always a battle for us to get in, you see. So it's reverse psychology that we use.
I was about-- I was 7. But in Brazil at the time, you can only compete at eight years old. So they signed me up as a twin brother with Royler. So they signed me up as a-- they're both twins. They're both eight, but I was seven.
It was a BJJ tournament competition for kids. You could only compete at ages-- at eight years old back then. So they put me in like, you guys are twins today.
Once I left Brazil, I stopped with the Gi competition and started teaching back in the days in the garage with Royler's house. And teaching sometimes a student will being-- hey, I have a wrestling instructor. I have a karate instruct, a boxing instructor. And he wants to come over. And you guys say that you're so good. He wants to come over. He wants to come over and test it out. Sure.
But while he was fighting, we were trying to gain a new student. So it wasn't a fight for me back in the garage days. Guys who come in, judo guys who come in-- let me try out. Let me see how good you guys are. You guys are saying that you can fight anybody. OK, you do your thing, kickboxer.
You do your thing. I'll do my thing. Let's go. He's punching and kicking for real, but I'm trying to gain a new student, so I'm just controlling, proving to him, hey, see, you don't know Jiu-Jitsu So we're trying to gain a new student. It was almost like it wasn't a fight for us. For him, it was a fight.
I trust the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu style. So, yes, I study all the other styles for me to know what's coming at me. How would you set me up if you're a boxer? If you step this way, you're going to punch here. If you step that way, you're going to punch there.
Well, if you're a technical guy, when you turn this way, you're going to kick this way. You're going to kick that way when you step over there. You're going to punch if you step over here. I study not for me to use, but for me to know what's coming at me.
They didn't know the ground game. So, yes, they are difficult. A boxer, a kickboxer, a karate guy, a tae kwon do. They will hit. If they catch me with a hit, I'll go down. I'm not punch proof. But if they miss, I'll get them in a clinch. I'll take them down.
And then it becomes, well, he did some wrestling. Well, wrestling is very incomplete. Or judo. He did some judo. He's good on throwing, but he didn't know the ground game that we have. He didn't have the ground game.
So it was-- yes, the other style was incomplete. That's where we have the advantage. But we're not punch proof. We're not, you see, throw proof. No. Yeah, he takes me down. And? Go on. The fight will go on.
So that's-- a lot of people in the beginning thought the Gracies are so arrogant. They're trying to prove that their style is the best. It was a misunderstanding. We're not arrogant. We're on a quest. You say your boxing's great. You can knock everybody out. Hm. Can I test? We'll see. Let's put it to the test.
So people say that karate is good and that wrestling is good, and everybody claims that their style is good. We're just curious to know. Well, what if we take all the weight division, all the gloves and rules? You do your thing. I'll do my thing. Let's see what works.
So we're on a quest to find out what's the best style, you see. And we've been proving that for many years. And then today, everybody has to know Gracie Jiu-Jitsu If you know-- if you take Gracie Jiu-Jitsu out of the equation, you go back to be a pure wrestler. There's no chokes, no head locks, no punches in wrestling against a boxer who only throws punches, not even kicks. You see? Or a kick boxer who throws kicks and punches but he doesn't do any takedowns.
So it goes back to-- it's Stone Age almost. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is the bone that glues all the pieces together. I am a product of my father's work. I'm just doing what he started.
We don't believe in good students or bad students. We believe in good teachers and bad teachers. So if you show up again, you're going to learn that-- oh, he doesn't know. He's a bad student. Not with us. If you don't learn, it's our fault. So everybody is the same to us.
We teach from the heart. So we never completed high school. We never went to business seminars. But when Royler and I would teach at the Gracie Academy, 99 out of 100 that show up at the academy-- 100 students show up to see the academy. 99 will sign up.
And we never took the seminars. And we just sign them up from the heart. The ones that don't sign up, it's because he's from out of town. He lives-- he's not in the state. Can't take the class. Can't sign up. But 99 out of 100 will sign up.
It's like back in the graduate days before we opened the first Gracie Academy. We were teaching half an hour privates in two garages. Start at 8:30 in the morning. 8:30. Goes until 12:30. Start again at 3:00. Goes until 9 o'clock at night. Half an hour privates. There were two houses, two garages. [INAUDIBLE] all day long. There were about 107 students on the waiting list.
Hey, if somebody misses class, can you call me? Somebody can't make it. So the students calls like, hey, man, I can't make it tomorrow. Done. Call the first guy on the list. Oh, man. Tomorrow, I can't. Call the next guy.
When we opened up Gracie Academy, we already [INAUDIBLE] some 250, 300 students almost. But we teach from the heart. We never thought about the business part. So it becomes natural.
I don't believe in competition. I'm not talking about MMA. Points system. I don't believe in competition. Martial arts was not made for competition. Forget which one is better than the other. Which martial art was made for competition? None of them.
Martial art was made to defend yourself in a street fight situation, all of them. So martial arts is to defend yourself, self-defense, all of them. Competition is ruining martial arts. Point system-- you score a point. Yep. I would've scored a point on that. I win.
But that's not self-defense anymore. That's not to defend yourself. You need to totally change. That's not how you fight, how you defend yourself. If you have to throw a punch, you have to rip through his chest. You're not going to tap his chest and score a point. So I don't believe in competition's point system.
It's very hard to teach self-defense-- very hard. It's much easier to teach point system competition and being athletic. And what if I'm not athletic? What if I don't want to compete, I'm not interested in that?
So a lot of the schools-- a lot of the schools guide them to the competition point. Oh, you've got trying harder. You've got to go hard. You've got to be athletic. You've got to be in shape. It's like-- because it's much easier to do that instead of knowing the technique and teaching the right self-defense and the right moves.
My father used to say it takes a minimum of 10 years to know somebody's character. And sometimes, even after 10 years, you still don't know the person's character. So to get a black belt, we have to know the person's character. We're not giving a black belt. You have to know it's beyond the mat.
Does he drink alcohol? Is he an alcoholic? Does he do drugs? Does he have hygiene? Does he-- everything counts. It's not just-- it's a personal life that we build in.
It's not-- to get a black belt, at least with my family-- some people just-- hey, you've been training long enough. Here. You earned it. They don't care about your past, what you do in your off time. With me, it goes to my father. It goes beyond the mat, including chewing tobacco.
You're going to say-- you're going to tell me, but if I chew tobacco, I'm not harming anybody. It's me, my gig. Doesn't matter. You serve as an example for the little kids. They're going to see you. Sorry. You give up the tobacco, we'll wait no problem until you give up.
You've got to give up, or we're going to wait until you give up, but you aren't moving up. We don't have to promote you. You can be a brown belt before your black for the rest of your life. Not a problem. Either you give up the alcohol, the smoking, the drugs-- but that's why we have 10 years to know. Sometimes, it's 12, 15, 17 years before they get a black belt.
And if they don't change, we're not in a rush. We have plenty of time. We're very patient to teach. We're teachers. That's what we do. We don't cut ties and-- oh, my god. He's not going to stop chewing tobacco. It's your choice. But I will explain to you that that's not a good example.
Do you think my guys-- I tell them, hey, you want to get drunk? Get home, lock yourself in the room, and get drunk. You, your wife, your girlfriend-- I don't care. But don't take a picture in public holding a beer.
Don't walk in public and get drunk because a father of one of your little girls who taken class and one of your students is watching you getting drunk, getting stupid in public. You see, what you do in your private room, I don't care. But I'll try to fix it.
They understand that, that hey, it's not good. I don't even-- I wouldn't even take a picture with you if you're holding a beer. I'll tell you, put your beer down please. You'll thank me later. I did that so many times.
I treat them like a student when it comes time to teach martial arts. In life, I'm totally the opposite. Life is like, kids, my job as a father is to get you out of trouble. So if you don't get in trouble, I can't do my job. [LAUGHTER] How many times have I used that one?
My son used to play soccer. My son used to play soccer before he decided to fight. [INAUDIBLE] high school. He went to high school, got a scholarship for a couple of colleges to go play soccer, and suddenly decided, you know what? I don't want to play soccer anymore. I don't want to go to college. I want to fight.
All right. Cool. I never forced him to do either one. He was going to go to college. Last year in high school, he changed his mind and decided to get in the cage. All right. Good.
The entire team for soccer for high school ended the club team. Every time they go play, I tell them the rules are yellow card-- if you guys get a yellow card, it's my yellow card. $10 a yellow card.
If you get a red card, get kicked out of the game, I'll pay you $20. My red card. I'll pay you $20 per card. Sometimes, the kids would get kicked out of the game. They're walking out. They'll point to the stadium. Mr. Gracie, $20.
The point is, which kid wants to get kicked out of the game? They all want to play the game. But the coach is talking so much of, oh, my god, don't commit any fouls. Oh, my god. Don't play hard.
And you see the other team kicking my team over here, beating my team up. Kids, it's OK. Play tough. They don't want to get kicked out. But if they get kicked out, they get paid for it.
My father used to-- let's say-- I don't know the transaction back in the day. But let's see if I win the match, the tournament, he would give me $10. If I lose, he would give me $20. Do I want to lose? No. But if I lose, it's OK, man. I get paid for more, you see. But do I really want to lose to get more money? I don't want to lose.
The kids are playing soccer. They don't want to get a red card and get kicked out. They want to play the game. But it doesn't mean play like a little sissy and let the other team beat you. You can play tough. You can play contact. It's OK. If you get caught and you push the guy back and the referee sees and kicks you out of the game, I'll buy that. That card is mine.
I lost about two or three in my career. And the first thing is go back to the locker rooms and think, what happened? Where did the train derail? Because I trained to win. I didn't train to lose.
So I go back and figure out what happened. Then, we sit down right away, and we go through the fight and figure out, what did I do to lose or what didn't I do to make me lose?
There's a lot of tough guys out there. There's a lot of talented guys out there. But without discipline to get up and practice, you won't stay on top forever. Talent, toughness will go away. You have to have discipline. But that's for everything. You've got to have discipline to get up and do what you've got to do.