How Leroy Garrett and ‘Killer’ Kam Williams Became the Ultimate MTV ‘Challenge’ Power Couple
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In late 2016, Kam Williams entered the MTV Are You The One? house in the Dominican Republic in the hopes of meeting her soul mate and winning $1,000,000 in the process. She didn’t manage to accomplish either goal, but her wild season did earn her an MTV-verse promotion into the world of The Challenge for 2018’s The Challenge: Vendettas.
It was a season of reality television that changed her life forever. Not only did she defeat Challenge legends Tori Deal and Ashley “Meltdown” Mitchell in eliminations and make it all the way to the final, earning her the nickname “Killer Kam,” but she also met Real World: Las Vegas cast member Leroy Garrett. They were inseparable all season and eventually discovered that their relationship also worked off-camera. They’re now the loving parents of two very young children, but it hasn’t gotten in the way of their Challenge career. After a brief hiatus to start their family and sort through some thorny issues with MTV (more on that later), they are back on The Challenge: All Stars 4.
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We’re at the midway point of the season, and Williams and Garrett are both still in the battle. (The show was filmed well over a year ago.) We caught up with Williams and Garrett at their Houston home via Zoom during a rare break from their parenting duties to talk about their very public courtship, parenting, All Stars 4, and why Garrett decided to un-retire following an ugly racial incident on The Challenge: Dirty 30 that caused him to walk away from the show.
How chaotic is your life right now with two kids that young?
Williams: Oh my gosh. We feel it since we’ve doubled our family. Because at first, when we came out to Houston, it was just us two. And we had one baby, and we’re like, “Okay, cool. We have the hang of this.” And now, doubling the amount of kids we have, there are not enough hours in a day. There’s never enough time to get ready.
Garrett: What was sleep? What is sleep?
How much sleep do you two get per night?
Williams: To be honest, he takes the night shift. I go to bed later because he goes to bed with [our son] Kingston, so he is sleeping by 9:00 pm. And when everybody falls asleep, I get my me time. Last night, I got the best shower in, and I went through my skincare routine. And then he wakes up first.
Garrett: Yesterday, I got up at 3:00 AM, and I just stayed up for the rest of the day. I was hella tired yesterday. I mean, it’s not going to last forever with this, but you’ve just got to figure out a way to maneuver through it.
Let’s go back now. Leroy, tell me your first memory of ever seeing Kam.
Garrett: They sometimes put us in hotels before we actually leave to go film a season. And I remember her walking in before we went to JFK Airport. Johnny [Bananas] and I saw her. I started talking to her. I told her she had pretty toes. She was wearing sandals.
Williams: I walked over to them both because I was a rookie, and I was introducing myself to everybody. I think I tapped you guys on the shoulder. And before they even said hello, they both looked down at my feet at the same exact time. I was like, “Well, I’m Kam. Nice to meet you.”
Kam, what was your initial impression of Leroy?
Williams: I could tell like he had a very open personality, like a funny personality, just because of the toe thing. He was kind of weird but in a funny way.
Kam, you made a big impression on your rookie season on Vendettas. What was your plan going into that season as a rookie?
Williams: To be honest, since I just came off of a dating show where I was trying to find love, I was just completely there for the money. I was trying to make up for the last show that I did. And to be honest, I didn’t know what The Challenge was. I never watched it before. All I knew was you won money at the end. I was like, “Yeah, I’m just going to try to do that.” I didn’t know that I would’ve became who I am, or make such a huge impression on this show.
I remember when they brought in Tori as a mercenary. She won the first round. It looked like she was going to take you out. Then you got this fierce look in your eye and just creamed her. It was the moment you became Killer Kam. Leroy, do you remember watching that?
Garrett: She went into like four eliminations that season. I was there for her. I was screaming for her.
Williams: Have you ever rooted for a rookie so hard?
Garrett: Never. Never. When I saw her down there, I said, “This woman’s going to have my children.”
Williams: No, you did not.
Garrett: That was my thought.
Williams: You didn’t want children.
Garrett: I didn’t. But I was like, “She’s going to have my children somehow.”
Showmances are very common on The Challenge and other reality shows. They rarely lead to anything serious and permanent. When you guys first got together, did you think it was just a fling?
Williams: I think he definitely did.
Garrett: That’s for sure.
Williams: To be honest, I feel like, on the actual season, it wasn’t a showmance. I feel like it was a connection. And as time went on…
Garrett: Those were my fling days.
Williams: It was like one foot in, one foot out. We were like, “What is this? We kind of like each other in real life, but then there’s the show. What relationship actually works on this show? How serious can you even take a Challenge relationship?” I’m sure neither of us thought that we would become an actual family. It’s crazy when you think about it.
Leroy, how did your mindset go from “fling” to something more serious?
Garrett: Time. And going through ups and downs. When you are together, and then apart, you start saying to yourself, “Wait a minute, man, I really truly do like and love this person.” But it took a lot of ups and downs, a lot of being together and being apart.
What was it like the first few times you were together off-camera? The real world is obviously such a different place than the hot house environment of a reality TV house.
Garrett: It was cool because she was the same person that she was when she was filming. It wasn’t like she was totally different off-camera. She was the exact same. We would FaceTime every day.
Some people admit that they basically play a character when they go on a reality show. Sounds like you two weren’t doing that.
Garrett: I was always being myself. I feel like if I wasn’t, my friends and family would call me out like, “Hey man, that ain’t you.”
Williams: I honestly think that, with how they edit the show or just TV shows, in general, they highlight a certain aspect of your personality, and that becomes your character.
What was it like to enter the house as a couple? Do you think it put a target on your back since people would want to break up your alliance?
Williams: We’ve only been on the show as a couple twice with just Double Agents and All Stars 4. It didn’t really make us a target. I think it made us stronger. I think it made people look at us, like, “Hey, we want to work with them,” because that’s like an actual solid unit. I think it made people a little bit more hesitant to come for us, if anything, because if you get rid of one, the other is still in the game, coming for you. It makes us more of a threat.
Garrett: We were super strategic about it, but now I think it will be super rare to see us on a show together because with two kids…it’s going to be like, “All right, babe. You go, or I go.” I think you should go.”
Williams: Oh my god, whatever.
Leroy, what are some of the biggest changes you’ve seen on The Challenge since your first season?
Garrett: Well, the amount of money you could win. The amount of competitiveness. The amount of drama. This drama now goes into social media, too. When I first started, social media was just starting. Everybody has it now. Also, they’re adding other shows, which I think is great. There’s Big Brother, Survivor, Are You the One? I think that it’s good for the franchise. It keeps it going.
Kam, it’s pretty funny you went onto Are You The One? to find “the one.” And then you found him on The Challenge when you weren’t really looking for him.
Williams: I know. I think that’s how the universe works sometimes. When I went on Are You the One?, I really went there to find love. I feel like those feelings manifested in what I am today. I wanted love, and I ended up finding it through what I’ve been through on Are You the One?. You have to just trust the process even when things don’t work in your favor, or you might not understand why something is happening. That’s what my relationship reminds me of all the time.
Kam, you’ve seen a lot of rookies come and go without making a big impression. What mistakes do they make?
Williams: I think just being a follower and not thinking for themselves. In my rookie season, I was very much not trying to be up under anybody’s wing or taking orders from anybody. I wasn’t thirsty for alliances. I think what helped me is I didn’t know any of these people. I never watched the show. I didn’t know what to expect. I think that that was actually an advantage to my rookie season.
I went in there just all me, and I had a mind of my own. I think a lot of the rookies come on this game, and they see these big names and faces, and they’re trying to get up under their wings, but I very much was not like that. I’m like, “Oh, you’re the best person here, I’m trying to get you out, because what’s going to heighten my chances of winning is getting the current champs out of the game.” That was my approach on my first season.
Leroy, what do you do during the off-season to prepare for a Challenge?
Garrett: Oreos. Doritos.
Williams: Oh my God!
Garrett: Twinkies. Sitting on the couch and playing with my kids…I started taking swimming lessons. I started running, I ran a half marathon. Jordan [Wiseley] actually sent me his road bike, so I’ve been riding that. And just outside of the physical, doing math problems and working on puzzles. You’ve got to do everything. On The Challenge now, you’ve got to make sure you can do a puzzle. If you can’t do a puzzle, you’re out of there.
Leroy, we’ve seen you get so close to a victory so many times. As a fan, it’s been really frustrating. I can’t imagine what it’s been like for you. Does that frustration fuel you going forward?
Garrett: Well, normally, when I lose, I immediately start cursing out production on site. I’m like, “Fuck you all.” [Laughs] I mean, it used to be very tough for me. Now, I got to look at it like it’s either in the cards or it isn’t. Sometimes, you could do everything to train for it and get there. But you could get hurt, your partner could get hurt. There are so many different elements to it. So, I just try to keep coming back. That’s the only thing I really can do, it’s just keep coming back and just keep trying. It’s the same thing I would tell my kids: keep trying.
I read you were a bartender at the Britney Spears show in Las Vegas. What was that like?
Garrett: I was a bartender at Planet Hollywood. It was very nostalgic because I grew up in the Britney Spears era. We had Backstreet Boys, Gwen Stefani, Christina Aguilera, and all these different pop artists from back in the day. So, to be there, to be able to hear the concert every day, and then be able to meet a bunch of The Challenge fans was just amazing. I would sit there and be bartending and people would be like, “Wait a minute, is that Leroy?” And the everybody in that line would want to take a picture. So, it was a really cool experience.
I’m sure you saw her show a bunch of times.
Garrett: Yeah, I did. I would watch it, because as soon as the show starts, everybody will be in there, so bartenders can go watch. But I mean, after hearing it a million times, it was just kind like normal.
You retired a few years ago. What drew you back?
Garrett: Well, I retired because of the incident that happened on Dirty 30…the Camila incident. [Editor’s note: Former Challenge cast member Camila Nakagawa called him a “Black motherfucking pussy” and was allowed to stay on the show.]
MTV and Bunim/Murray [Productions] and I had a bunch of talks about the changes they could make at the network, such as making a policy for zero tolerance for racism, zero tolerance for any type of slander against the LGBTQ plus, whatever letters that I might’ve missed, community, just anything of that nature.
So, them putting this policy in place and having us do a two-hour training course to make sure that what happened to me won’t happen again is what made me feel comfortable with coming back. You can’t erase the past, but I wanted them to, A, first, take accountability for what happened to me, and then, B, make some necessary changes. And they did that, and that made me feel comfortable to come back. Because I feel like it’s a safe place now.
Kam, I’m sure you’re proud of him for taking a stand and forcing real change.
Williams: Absolutely. Even when we did Double Agents and everything, production had a talk with the entire cast. They were talking about the changes that would be made behind the scenes, it really made me feel great on the inside.
Garrett: People are being held accountable, the network is being held accountable, and production is being held accountable.
When you two got the offer to go on All Stars 4, were you hesitant at all?
Williams: Well, he was still retired when they initially called me for the show. And to be honest, it wasn’t hard for me to say yes because I missed it. It’s been some years. Once a Challenger, always a Challenger. And I was like, “Hey, I’m going to bring Leroy with me, too”. And she was like, “Wait. He would do the show?” I’m like, “I think if I talk to him about it, sit down and have a talk with him, he will.”
I think with us becoming new parents, we get so wrapped up in being parents first that we lose ourselves in the process. And I am a huge advocate on not losing myself just because I’m a mom. So, I went for me. And I also thought it would be cool if he could do something for him, too, especially since the climate changed.
How did it work logistically with the baby?
Garrett: Well, Kingston was seven months old, so we felt as if he was old enough to stay at home by himself. We had a talk with him, and he was like, da-da-da. [Laughs] No. My sister called and said she don’t think that’d be a good idea. She said to bring him to Michigan.
Williams: We have an amazing family support system that we knew that we could absolutely trust a million percent. So, we left him back at home with Leroy’s sister in Michigan, and she took amazing care of him.
It’s such a huge thing to be a Challenge parent and to leave kids back home. Usually, we’ve seen that from the outside looking in, but to actually be that is different. It’s like, “Wow, these Challenge parents, kudos to them, props to them.” They are way stronger than I could have ever thought or believed.
How did All Stars 4 feel different than the flagship show?
Williams: It’s done way faster. It was a more relaxed and more fun environment. They really tried to make it not as much of a hostile environment, I would say. And it was really fun. In regards to gameplay, I was just like, “Look, I have zero tolerance or patience for any of this. Am I getting my star or not?” I was just playing at a hundred percent. I wanted my star. I wanted to be making moves because either I’m going to play the best game possible to really heighten my chances of winning, or go out trying.
It must have been cool to meet true OGs like Flora and Kefla.
Williams: They are so iconic.
Garrett: When I first got to the airport, I didn’t even know they were a part of the cast. Had no idea.
Williams: They’re a huge foundation to this show. I don’t think people realize how huge and iconic they really are. Whether it was The Real World or Road Rules, those are the threads that built this big old blanket. Without them, there wouldn’t be us. Without all of those OGs, there wouldn’t be the show that it is today. I was probably still in diapers when they were on. No shade or anything, in all respect.
They must be inspiring to you. If they can do this in their 50s, why can’t you too someday?
Williams: Exactly.
Garrett: That’s your plan?
Williams: I don’t know. Listen, I sure would. I’m trying to make it all the way to the Challenge season 95 with my kids, like the real bloodlines.
Garrett: Look, you can get our son as your partner, and I can get our daughter.
Williams: Can we make that happen? I think we can.
You shot the show about 18 months ago. What the hell happened?
Garrett: I mean, that’s all on production. We couldn’t believe it took this long to come out. You know how long we had to hold that secret in?
Williams: We had a whole baby… I don’t think ever in Challenge history has a cast member ever had a baby in between filming, and the show airing. I don’t know what’s going on, but I was like, “Wow, that’s kind of cool.” But damn, it took so long.
It’s amazing to think that one day, your kids and even your grandkids can watch the show.
Williams: I think that that is going to be the coolest thing ever. If I had an opportunity to watch how my parents met or like to compete on a show, I would think that that is just so cool. I would probably binge that all the time.
In 65 years, some kid might say, “Want to see my grandparents jump between two moving trucks?”
Williams: Do you know how cool that’s going to be?
Garrett: You want to see my dad get knocked unconscious in the water?
Do you think you two will ever go on the flagship again as a duo?
Garrett: That’s tough, man. That would be really tough.
Williams: It’s too long for me.
Garrett: You’re talking like 10 weeks being away from our babies.
Williams: Maybe another All Stars one day, but not now. He’s a toddler now. I wouldn’t leave my toddler with anybody. He was a baby when we first left him, but now he’s a toddler. I would not put that on anyone. One of us has to be home with him. So, I think that when the kids are older in a few years, maybe, the next five years, possibly, we could even entertain ever doing any sort of show together again. But for right now, while they’re going through their toddler phase, absolutely not.
What if they asked just one of you to go on the flagship? Leroy, are you down to be away from your kids for 10 days?
Garrett: Hell yeah! [Picks up a phone and mocks making an agreement for a new season.]
How about one of you going on another show like House of Villains or Traitors?
Williams: I definitely have watched Traitors, and I think it’s just so cool to see how our fellow Challengers won. On Traitors, I was like, “Wow, that’s awesome. I would definitely do that. I’m a strategic queen.”
But House of Villains, I don’t think either of us are villains, even though some may say I’m in my villain era for this All-Stars season. I didn’t think so, but whatever. I am definitely open to doing other shows. I don’t think it would make me as anxious as jumping off of a building on The Challenge. So, I’m open to other things. I love being able to play a competition game. So, I definitely would.
I already have a strategy for if I would be a traitor or if I would be a faithful. I already know what I’m going to do. This is how my mind thinks.
Leroy, what’s next for you?
Garrett: Being a dad. That’s it. Right now, we just had a new baby. She’s about to be three months, and Kingston will be two on Friday. My son will be two Friday and my birthday is on Thursday, so I’m just focusing on family, family, family.
I’ll end with the question I ask everyone on The Challenge. Who is the GOAT: CT or Bananas?
Williams: I’m going to say CT. I played more seasons with CT, and CT can show up to a season where it’s like you would think he doesn’t have a great chance of winning, and he’s going to prove you wrong every single time. I’ve played a few seasons with him. Jordan is not to be slept on. Johnny is also not to be slept on either, though, but I don’t know. I love me some CT.
Garrett: I’ll say Johnny, because the odds are always against him these days. I think CT has an easier time.
Williams: But that’s what makes his game so good. He’ll arrive, and you think like, “Man, he’s getting old” or “He got out of shape.” And then, by the time that final comes, it’s like, “Oh, Christ, we forgot about CT. He’s still here!” And he just crushes a final. So, he’s an underdog to me in that sense, but he’s also a GOAT. Johnny’s a GOAT. Jordan’s a GOAT.
I’ll leave it there, but I’m really rooting for you both. Leroy, I want to see a ring on your finger. It’s about him.
Garrett: [Holds up hand] I’ll put one on right now!
I really hope that years from now, you get a chance to do another season together.
Williams: Maybe we’ll do Challenge 50 together. I’m going to try and talk him into it.
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