‘And Just Like That’ Boss on Samantha’s Cameo, Aidan’s Return and the Evolution of Che
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“Are you an Aidan person or a Big person?” Michael Patrick King asks, shortly after his face appears via Zoom from New York.
When his Sex and the City sequel And Just Like That returns for its second season June 22, the showrunner is hopeful that this now decades-old debate will be had anew. After all, when the show’s second season trailer dropped earlier this month, it revealed that Aidan would be returning to the show, and to Carrie Bradshaw’s life. Instantly, it became one of two major plot points that has monopolized the media dialogue surrounding the show. The other: the return of Kim Cattrall‘s Samantha, who reportedly filmed her single-page scene in secret — without King or her former co-stars — earlier this year.
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In mid-June, King spoke candidly about the return of both, along with his concerted effort to add dimension and humanity to the other characters in his now expansive cast.
Let’s start with Aidan (played by John Corbett). At what point did you decide you wanted him to return?
The minute I knew we were doing a season two. Before I even started writing, there was only one word in my mind for the season: Aidan. I didn’t know how, what, where, when; I hadn’t even vetted it with anybody. The first person I went to was Sarah Jessica, and then the studio and then the writers. It felt like it would create excitement, which is great as a showrunner. And as a writer, it creates a very complicated past that we’re bringing into the present.
How focused or concerned were you with keeping his return a secret?
I mean, you keep your fingers crossed. I still think it’s a miracle that we got away with a surprising Big [Chris Noth] death. As you can see, there were two leaks this season: Aidan and Samantha [Kim Cattrall]. But we knew Sarah Jessica and John Corbett were going to be seen on the street together filming, so we sort of said, “Well, it’s there in the world.” Or, it’s there in the world when it has to be. And then sometimes it’s before it has to be, which is what happened with the Samantha leak. You can imagine my desire to have someone watching the show and see Carrie (played by Sarah Jessica Parker) hold her phone and look down and see, “Samantha,” out of nowhere. That would’ve been thrilling, but at least they know Samantha’s in the show.
What did you learn from season one that you brought with you to season two?
You knew all of the original characters for so long, so the most we could do with the new characters in the first season was to introduce them, really. You had judged everybody by the cover of their book last year because everybody only got the cover of who they were. When we knew we were coming back, we wanted to show who these people really are from Che [Sara Ramírez] to LTW [Lisa Todd Wexley, played by Nicole Ari Parker] to Seema [Sarita Choudhury] and Nya [Karen Pittman]. And then our mandate of why we came back to do And Just Like That at all with new people was to invite more points of view and more people to the table of this feast. And then the other thing was to try to connect them all because the first season they were on individual runways. It was Carrie and Seema, Nya and Miranda [Cynthia Nixon], and Charlotte and LTW. So, in room was almost like when you see those shows about a serial killer where the FBI have all the red yarn going [from one suspect to another]. But for us, it was, like, Carrie to Che to Miranda. That was our goal; to make it become more integrated.
I’ve heard you and some of your writers say that you were surprised and, at the same time, not surprised by the backlash to Che. I’m hoping you can elaborate on that.
When we wrote the fingering scene in the kitchen season one, when Carrie was in bed and she ended up peeing into a Snapple bottle [because Miranda was too busy being fingered by Che to help her friend to the bathroom], we were like, “This is the departing moment.” This now goes both further sexually than anybody was expecting, and I think that scene scared the audience. Like, “I don’t know what this is. I’ve never seen this combo plate, and I don’t know what they’re going to do next.” That was episode five, and I think everybody locked into some sort of tension mode for the whole rest of the season, thinking, like, “I don’t know what’s coming.” Like, if they’re going to kill Big, finger Miranda and then break Miranda apart, I don’t know what to expect. And I’ll take a rollercoaster over, “I saw it coming” or “I’m bored by it.”
Sure, Steve [David Eigenberg] is also a beloved character, and suddenly you have Che being blamed for breaking up Miranda’s marriage to him.
Yes, and we knew that the idea of anyone splitting a marriage apart would be the story viewers told themselves about what happened rather than Miranda liberating herself in front of Che. And we knew it was gonna be bad, but it was happening even before Che. When you’re telling most every couple, me included, that sitting on the couch watching television and eating desserts is not healthy, you’ve basically created a problem. And I love sitting on the couch with [my partner] eating desserts, but if you don’t love it, you’re being called out. And so I knew it was going to be problematic. It’s always problematic to point at anything that society says is normal, meaning a couple — because once you’re married, you stay married, and anytime you pull that apart, it’s going to create friction. And when it’s with a character like Che that no one’s really seen before, which is a confident sexual, standup comic, who’s in a nonbinary selfhood, it’s a lot for people.
How did that response inform how you approached the character this season?
I was so thrilled to have a chance to come back and make them more dimensional and human. It’s like we do with all our characters: Oh, you think you know Carrie, well, look she’s having an affair with Mr. Big and he’s married, okay, now, do you still love her? So, you get to turn characters around and, again, make them more dimensional. The reaction to Che in the multiverse that is Sex and the City and And Just Like That was a chance for us to really show what else is in a human being besides the label that you’ve put on them, or, even more advanced than that, that they’ve put on them that they’re constantly evaluating. So, yeah, I love the chance to show the vulnerability. And also, with Sara Ramírez, I knew it would be deeply felt, whatever it is. You can still have your feelings, and you can still say, “Oh, no, no, I’m not going to change my opinion of someone now because of the writing,” but we tried to show more dimension.
Do you have those conversations with Sara, preparing them for how this might land?
I have conversations that are important with all the actors. I would say, first, with the executive producer original three [Parker, Nixon and Davis], we aways talk about their arcs. And with Sara, too, and Sara has also been informing me of this journey, because we want it to be true to their experience. And I also want to be able to push where we can. So, I always check in, But when we started, Sara and I talked about it and I said, “Sara, I think what we need to do is deconstruct.” And they were like, “Yesssss.” It’s like, bring the scaffolding down and showing what’s underneath.
With LTW’s storyline, the second season really explores what it means to be Black in the upper crust of New York. Talk to me about what inspired that storyline and how you worked with the writers, and possibly even [the actress] Nicole Ari Parker herself, to hash out what the show wanted to say about the racial and gender dynamics?
We’ve deliberately had a very informed writing room because we’re trying to accurately portray different points of view. And Susan Fales-Hill joined us [as a writer] this year. I’ve known her in television a very long time, but I’d never gotten a chance to work with her. She’s on the international Best Dressed list, she is hilarious, and she is Black and in society. She’s on the board of ABT and she lives on Park Avenue, and the thrill of her is that she’s multifaceted in terms of her understanding of life. So, Susan and I wrote those first two episodes together, and I wouldn’t have done it without her because she really moved LTW and Herbert [Chris Jackson] and that family into a specific area that I needed information on because it is not my reality.
And listen, we all imagine everybody. I mean, the ladies are writing Steve and Aidan, I’m writing the ladies, we’re all writing Nya, we’re all writing LTW — but when it comes to really specific details of a being’s existence, a fictional character that you’re trying to ground with reality, then the writing and everybody’s personal experiences mean a great deal. And the shows this season are very much infused with Susan and Samantha [Irby’s] feelings and Jess Henderson, who joined us as a nonbinary Black standup, and Julie [Rottenberg] and Elisa [Zuritsky], who are mothers, and me, who doesn’t have children, but has a room full of mothers; we’re all in there, we’re in the mix. I’m glad you called that out though because it’s special, I think, and it’s unique. And one of the reasons we wanted to do it was because it was important to Susan to show a person who hasn’t been on television yet.
Okay, we’ve waited long enough, let’s talk about Samantha. As I’ve heard it, you got a call from HBO chairman and CEO Casey Bloys, who also approached Kim Cattrall, about the idea of having her return, and he said what, exactly?
You probably know more than me. I did not start this season thinking Samantha would ever appear in the show. Now, my Samantha has always been in And Just Like That. And in actuality, the audience saw Carrie texting with her and she sent flowers [in season one]. And in my writer’s sense, when I’m away from the screen, they’re calling and seeing each other. I know Kim said that she’d hung up the Samantha wardrobe, and then some magic happened behind the scenes because all of a sudden, there was a possibility of it happening. And I think, I don’t know, something about the 25th anniversary, the fans have always asked for Samantha and something happened where all of a sudden I was like, “Well, maybe if it’s a possibility, I can come up with a small beautiful little treat.” And that’s what happened.
Call me crazy, but I suspect that the magic that you’re referring to likely had something to do with the number of zeroes on Kim’s paycheck ….
Let me tell you, I like as much of a surprise in the show as I like as a viewer. And I was like, “Hey, if it’s happening, it’s magical. Let’s just keep going.” My job as a writer is to write it and then to see if it works, and how we present it to the audience. So, I will say that maybe if there was the Olympics of showrunning, I might have won the decathlon over this.
Was it an easy yes or did you have reservations about writing her back in?
I literally am telling you it was magic. It was done. And that’s all the details I’m gonna give you. (Laughs.)
You also got an 11th episode this season, presumably to tell this story?
I have an 11th episode because I had seven primary characters that I was trying to do a big arc with and when we got to 10, I Zoomed Sarah [Aubrey, at Max,] and I said, “Uh, this could be really good and there’s enough to make two good episodes.” And then it was just, “And this would also be in it.”
Do you see this as a one-time thing, or could you envision Samantha coming back for more?
I didn’t see it as anything! I didn’t even know that this was happening when I started to write season two. But Samantha is always in my mind as a character that exists in the world.
Speaking of more, I know your cast has said that they would love to do more beyond this season. Do you have more in you?
From a fan point of view, it remains to be seen what people will think about this season. From a writing point of view, I’m really happy with what we did with all of the characters. And I think that the actors have so much dimension and so much talent that I wouldn’t think that that would dry up. And there is enough in the play now that we could do some good stories if it happened.
There’s clearly a lot of dialogue around this show. Any guesses on where it might go, or perhaps where you’d like it to go this season?
I’m hoping they come into the season with the same dialogue that they had last year. The thing that was most thrilling about last year, aside from the creative work that we did, was the dialogue. It was this wide swing from, “I love it and I’m so glad to see my girls again,” to “I hate it, these aren’t my girls and how dare you even try this.” That kind of active conversation is really rare — it almost felt watercooler in the way that it used to be when Sex and the City was on. And because Max rolls these out every week, people had a week to either love it or hate it and talk about it and say, “I’m never gonna watch this show again …. till I do.” (Laughs.)
How closely are you tracking that dialogue?
I am not that sadomasochistic that I check it out and stuff, but you can feel it. There’s an energy that’s both great and negative. And let me tell you, I’ve seen things out of the side of my eye that I don’t want to be in front of my eye, and I’ve seen things out of the side of my eye that I love but I don’t invest in because then you’re hypnotized by it. But the worst thing would be you threw a party and nobody came.
Speaking of debate, is it true that the cast and crew were wearing either Team Steve or Team Miranda pins on the set?
Yes! Last year, when Miranda was breaking up with him, the entire crew had on pins with either Steve’s face on them or Miranda’s face on them. Cynthia Nixon had a pin with Steve’s face on it. She was walking around with a hoodie with a Steve pin. I would be Team Miranda because I thought it was important for her to liberate herself. And then if you flip my coat open, there would be Steve.
Well now I have to ask you: Are you Team Aidan or Team Big?
I’m team Carrie. I write based on Carrie and what we’re going to be able to do to move that character forward, however she needs to be moved forward; whether it’s through dark stuff like Big’s death or through new, light stuff, like Aidan’s return. But I always write from the point of view of what’s good for Carrie’s ongoing evolution and, how can we make that ever fascinating and not repetitive? And the thing that we’re always trying to do in the writers room is find ways to touch the past but make it present, and Aidan is a good way to do that. And everybody smells a good thing here.
Finally, we are talking as you and your fellow writers are on strike. I imagine you’re also part of the Director’s Guild…
I’m actually in all the unions. I’m in SAG, I’m in the DGA, the PGA and the WGA.
Wow. What’s it been like navigating this period, given all of those different hats that you wear, particularly as it relates to what you can and cannot do?
Well, thankfully, our show was completely written before the strike happened, and even before talks of the strike happened. So, as a Director’s Guild member, I was allowed to finish my cuts on the editing. And then the final polish is being done by John Melfi, who’s our executive producer. And the other thing that makes me feel good in terms of the Writer’s Guild struggle is that I am a dues-paying, proud member of 33 years and I’ve hired, as a showrunner, over 100 writers. So, I’m very writer-friendly, and what’s great about And Just Like That is that we had over six writers, and they were all episodically paid, and I promoted two assistants to script writers this year and actually I had them on the set so that they could experience it. So, in theory, my studio, Max, had already been playing in a paradigm of television that I was used to. There was no mini room. Everybody was hired and we were there from beginning to end. So, we were lucky because we are sort of a hybrid of TV on prestige cable and now streaming. And sure, I think it’s easier to have cooperation when you’re lucky enough to have IP that people value. It’s very difficult when everything’s starting at zero because there’s 5,000 shows on the air and everybody can seem equally unvaluable and that’s the worst thing for creativity.
Interview edited for length and clarity.
And Just Like That‘s second season is now streaming its first two episodes, followed by a weekly Thursday release on Max.
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