Josh Wilder knows he would have gone home earlier on Survivor without Matthew's injury
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Josh Wilder was living on borrowed time on Survivor 44.
The 34-year-old surgical podiatrist was gifted an idol on his journey, which he immediately used for his first Tribal Council on Tika post-swap, and his next Tribal was canceled after Matthew Grinstead-Mayle was medically evacuated. So, when he was on the chopping block during this week's mergatory Tribal as one of only six people not safe, his time finally came. No lies about fake idols could save him this time.
"Everyone dreams of winning, of course, so it was hard watching," Wilder tells EW of seeing his vote play out on TV. "And, of course, knowing the behind-the-scenes of who's talking about you, who's with you, who's not, that was kind of surreal, too. It was sad, but I was still so happy to play the game... I would do it again in a heartbeat. Call me, Jeff!"
EW spoke with Wilder about what people didn't see on TV, all those lies he told his tribe, why he didn't play his Shot in the Dark, and more. Watch the interview in the video above or read it below.
Robert Voets/CBS Josh Wilder on 'Survivor 44'
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: What surprised you about how your exit played out now that you've seen all the conversations you weren't involved in?
JOSH WILDER: What surprised me the most is knowing that certain players were aligned with me and seeing who wasn't, because out there, with all those people on one beach in half a day trying to get all that information together to make a single unified vote was craziness. It was madness. Like, you'd be talking to one person about Plan A, but two seconds later it was Plan B, and Plan C two seconds later. When I saw the votes align, it made me realize who was really working with me and who wasn't.
You talked a lot about how you were in such a great position with your old Soka tribe, and how you had power on your new Tika tribe with the fake idol, but did watching the past few episodes change your perception on your standing in both tribes?
Yes, absolutely. They were smart getting me out, because if I would have made merge, I would have been all the way through. But it's okay, I'm a threat. I get it. Yes, I thought I was staying Soka strong and that was the plan and I think I was just behind. Maybe I was playing too slow or too old school in that regard.
What was your thought process when it came to telling some people your idol was real and other people that your idol was fake?
Obviously, at Tika, my fake idol was a bust. And I knew once we split that Carolyn was going to tell that tea. She was going to let them know it was fake and everything — I just didn't know if they were going to believe it. I was trying to play that to my advantage to put doubt in people's mind to give me a little bit of edge because if some knew, some didn't, then confusion would erupt and then maybe it will get off of my back or get some people with me, and then put a target more so on Yam or Kane at that point. I was just trying to make myself look as small as possible, and all I had was that fake idol to put doubt in people's head.
At what point did you realize you were in trouble?
When it came down to us six I knew I was in trouble from the jump. I knew I was a threat and that's why I was trying to make all these lies about myself — to make myself as small as possible and insignificant. But when you're going from a group of 12 or 14, however many were on that beach, to six people, I just knew I was a threat and people were gunning for me. I knew Yam and I weren't really clicking that much so I knew he was coming for me and I was coming for him. As soon as we got to the six I was like, "I think I'm on the chopping block."
So why didn't you play your Shot in the Dark?
I was up in the air about it. I wanted to be with Yam so bad that I think I took it... I play emotionally, I realized that about myself. I thought everything was going towards Kane and I thought we got at a same level. So I was like, I don't need to use my Shot in the Dark. I don't want to play it too fast. I'm just now getting here. Let me get my footing first and save that for later. Plus, I would lose a vote, and I already knew I was on the chopping block and I knew it was between somebody else, so I wanted to save my vote so that we could have that extra number to get someone out.
Robert Voets/CBS The Soka tribe on 'Survivor 44'
Who did you think was going to go home instead of you?
Either Yam or Kane. Looking back at it, I really wanted Yam as an ally but I knew going forward I couldn't really trust him so that's why I put his name down. But then on the other side, if I voted for Kane, then that would put trust in Carolyn's head because she wouldn't think I was with the bros alliance or whatever. I was kind of going back and forth between Kane and Yam Yam and we ended up on Yam, so I thought Yam was going to go home.
The last two Tribal councils, you played an immunity idol you were given on the journey and then you didn't even go to Tribal because of Matthew's injury — do you think you would have been out sooner if things had gone differently, like if you hadn't been picked to go on that journey, or if Matthew hadn't been medevaced?
I definitely think I would have gone home [at] Tika, [when it was] me, Yam, and Carolyn. I think they would have gotten back together. I would definitely play my Shot in the Dark at that point. And then I would just try to stir up some drama or something at Tribal just to get the heat off my back, try to put it back on Yam so Carolyn and I could work together. If Matt didn't go home when he did, I think I would have gone home earlier. When he did, it kind of gave me a new perspective on life on the island, going back together with everybody. I thought I was more Soka strong than what was going on. But, like I said, it makes sense they were coming for me.
You were telling a lot of lies out there, from the fake idol to lying about not being a surgeon when Sarah asked you — was that your planned strategy, to lie a lot, or did you find yourself unintentionally spinning a bigger and bigger web of lies?
In this game, it's all about lies, deceit, betrayal. And in my everyday world, as a surgeon, I have people coming to me, paying me to give them advice and tell them about their condition. I'm used to honesty, people just talking. In this game I knew it is all about bias. I wanted to downplay who I was as much as possible and make myself look as small as possible, so I felt telling someone about my condition, telling them I was a surgeon would just make me look strategic or make me look like I don't need the money and I think that would've put more heat on my back than I already had. I'm strong, being a Black gay man, everyone's always looking at you and downplaying who you are. So I was like, Why don't you play that little role and act like I'm small and don't need anything. But being a Survivor player, I wanted to compete. I always wanted to do the puzzles. I always wanted to play those challenges. That kind of shot me in the foot, too, because I knew I was going to be okay at them and pretty good. But I wanted to be that strength for my tribe. And downplaying who I was, my medical condition, I just didn't want anyone to know how big of a threat I could really be because I was always perceived as a threat. As you see, everyone's always talking about me.
What's your biggest regret or moment you wish you could go back and change that you think would have changed the outcome of your game?
I would have used my Shot in the Dark, for sure. I never wanted to use my condition or Kristen [Reagle], who is my kidney donor, as a crutch but I would probably play on those strings to get more sympathy votes. Like, saying I was doing this for Kristen, who was my kidney donor who died, unfortunately, and saying she loved being outdoors, she loved being active, and I did this for her. I would talk more about my condition, start my authenticity at that point with everyone on the tribe, and then from there I think I could establish trust with people.
Carolyn's been so much fun to watch because we see how much she actually has a finger on the pulse of the game, but what was it like living with her? Did you realize how much of a threat she was or was it hidden underneath all her antics?
It was surprising! I did not think she had much of a finger on the game. But I knew that working with her would get me farther just because people wouldn't know how to take her. I did want to work with Carolyn, for sure. But I didn't know if I could work with Carolyn and Yam Yam, just because of the trust issue. But yeah, I did not know she had so much hold on the game. It's good to see, I love it.
Robert Voets/CBS Josh Wilder, Carolyn Wiger, and Yamil "Yam Yam" Arocho on 'Survivor 44'
What did you think of how Carson 3D-printed that puzzle, so he just flew through it during the challenge?
I mean, that's really, really cool. I would like to see different challenges on Survivor, different puzzles. That's cool that he had the puzzle, he made it before, that's awesome — puts others at a disadvantage, on a fairness level. I kind of want him to make me one, make me the snake thing that I did... I want Survivor, CBS, whoever does the challenges, maybe switch it up. Because if people are 3D-making these puzzles, that just puts people at a different advantage point than others.
What's something that happened out on the island that we didn't see on TV?
With my condition, not having a stomach, having a kidney transplant, it was really hard to play this game. Not only was I trying to be deceitful and lie and everything about it, but health-wise, I was struggling. My stomach hurt a lot of the time and that's why I have that grimace face because I'm just trying to breathe and survive, literally, and get through everything. But I wish they would have shown, there were a couple times I was passing out. Because of my condition, my blood sugar went low and I had low blood pressure, so if you stand up too quickly, get lightheaded, you fall down, and so I passed out a couple of times. I wish they would have highlighted my condition a little bit more for those who have prune belly syndrome, who've had stomach cancer, who have had all these conditions and chronic illnesses, and just highlight that this is hard trying to play a game and be out there with all these conditions. I was going through a lot more than everybody else, and I was trying to save that for the end so I could talk to everybody about that.
Did you talk to any of your tribemates about that?
I didn't disclose that at all. The only person who asked me was Sarah when I got to Tika beach. She was asking a lot of really good questions, which makes sense because she was trying to take heat off of her and put it on myself. She was the only one that directly asked me about my scars, about my tattoo, about my occupation. No one else knew about it, and I was trying to save all that for the end so I can justify how I got there, why I got there, and why I should deserve that money. Because I had another layer I was going through and I was doing it for Kristen, who was my kidney donor who died tragically, and that we should all just think about donating and think about those with illnesses and realize that just because you have these chronic conditions doesn't mean you can't do what everybody else does or do it better.
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