Jonathan Van Ness breaks down in tears while defending trans rights on Dax Shepard's podcast
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Jonathan Van Ness got emotional after their interview with Dax Shepard took a complicated turn.
During the wide-ranging conversation on Shepard's podcast, Armchair Expert, the two clashed while discussing whether The New York Times should be considered a liberal-leaning organization, given what Van Ness described as "anti-trans" content. To this, Shepard argued using conservative talking points such as the outlet was merely "challenging" and asking "questions" about issues, such as teens taking puberty blockers.
He continued, "This whole notion that to be critical… or to question even question it makes you an enemy. I don't think that's the way forward."
"I feel like I'm talking to my dad," said Van Ness, who is nonbinary and uses he/him, she/her, and they/them pronouns.
Vivien Killilea/Getty Images; Jason Merritt/Getty Images Jonathan van Ness, Dax Shepard
"All I'm saying is what we know about misinformation and disinformation is when you have an outsized reaction to something, there's a good chance that you're being exposed to misinformation and disinformation," the Queer Eye expert and LGBTQ+ activist said. "And a lot of the rhetoric around the anti-trans backlash does have a lot of misinformation and disinformation in it."
"I'm not calling you a transphobe," Van Ness said at one point. "You can not be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse trans misogyny and espouse transphobic ideologies and beliefs."
Van Ness also pointed out that as a nonbinary person, they find it "disappointing" when people — such as J.K. Rowling — claim to be fighting for women when they exclude trans kids from sports. The discussion went on for over 20 minutes, with Van Ness citing specific instances of athletes and children being excluded from sports on illegitimate grounds.
When they noted that they hoped their appearance on Shepard's show would be spent chatting about their own podcast, Getting Curious, Shepard apologized for the tangent, saying he "did not intend" to start a debate.
"I didn't want that at all," Shepard said. "I adore you. I think that you're hysterical and talented and I love that you're an activist." Afterwards, Van Ness broke down in tears as they unpacked the personal significance of the issue.
ANGELA WEISS/AFP via Getty Images Jonathan Van Ness
"I could just cry because I'm so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to be included," they told Shepard, getting emotional. "I wish that people were as passionate about little kids being able to be included or grow up as they were about fictitious women's fairness in sports. I have to tell you, I am very tired."
Van Ness added, "I'm scared of the vitriol that trans people face everyday."
Noting that the "casual questioning" of rights can have even weightier results than trans kids being unable to participate in sports, "It's also healthcare, it's also gender-based violence," they said.
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