Game changers: Vanessa Williams on overcoming stereotypes in Hollywood

On the latest episode of Game Changers, Vanessa Williams talks to Yahoo Entertainment about overcoming stereotypes in Hollywood. Williams smiles when she recounts being crowned the first Black Miss America in 1984 and says, “It’s very easy to label when you’re a scandalized beauty queen."

Video Transcript

VANESSA WILLIAMS: It's very easy to label when you're a beauty queen. It's very easy to label when you're a scandalized beauty queen.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: You've had to navigate race since the beginning of your career when you were crowned the first Black Miss America. When you look back on that period, it made you a public figure. But was it worth the price you had to pay?

VANESSA WILLIAMS: I had the responsibility of something that I never thought would happen in my lifetime. But the fact that I got a chance to do it and open doors and have it mean something-- when you see people, especially older Black women, that would come up to me with tears in their eyes and say, I never thought I'd see it in my lifetime, that really resonated with me because even though I entered on a whim and I didn't think it would happen, and the fact that it did happen made my path mean something. And that's tremendously heartfelt to me because I made a change in my own little way.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: Your reign ended with the release of those unauthorized photos. With the 2021 lens, we can see the sexism and racism. But at the time, do you feel like anybody could call it that or see that's what it was?

VANESSA WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, at the time, again, I was 21. I had six more weeks to go with my reign. And I had no idea that this had been going around my back since the very beginning to make money. I felt extremely betrayed and of course stunned and humiliated.

And it's very easy to label when you're a beauty queen. It's very easy to label when you're a scandalized beauty queen. So that was a tremendous obstacle for me to have to break through. And it took years. And it took opportunity and experiences to finally break those walls down.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: And I think it's interesting generationally because, like I said, through the 2021 lens, that story should have gone a different way for you. But it is amazing to see how you rose above that. And as you said, that dust settled. And you started thriving in music.

You released albums. You started acting. How strategic were you during that time to still making your dreams come true?

VANESSA WILLIAMS: I wish I was more strategic at the beginning, just because I had more faith in what I knew I could do. My biggest reality check was when I auditioned to replace Twiggy in "My One and Only" on Broadway. And Tommy Tune was starring in it. Mike Nichols was the director. And I went in for my audition. And I killed it.

And I left. And Mike Nichols gave me the big thumbs up as I left the theater. And I did not get it. And I found out years later from Mike Nichols himself. And he said, oh, you ever want to really know what happened that day? You did a great audition. You left. And I turned around and said to Lee Gershwin, who is Ira Gershwin's widow and head of the estate, wasn't she terrific. And she said, over my dead body will that whore be in my show.

And once he told me that, it all clicked. I said, wow, it had nothing to do with talent. It had all to do with perception and her view of what she saw of me at that moment. It was her bias because of who I represented.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: You had your theater premiere in "Kiss of the Spider Woman." Did that feel redemptive in some way?

VANESSA WILLIAMS: It was the opportunity for me to show, really, who I am. And of course, I had people in the theater saying, oh, she's a recording artist. Can she do it? I was replacing Chita Rivera. And then of course recording people said, oh, she's doing Broadway, can she do it?

And it gave me a chance to really sink into what I really, really could do. So it was a collective triumph for all of us.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: What role in your career would you say has been the most defining for you?

VANESSA WILLIAMS: I think "Kiss of the Spider Woman," which we mentioned was, OK, yes, she can sing, dance, and act, and she is a triple threat and the real deal. Working with Arnold Schwarzenegger in "Eraser" was a huge, $100 million budget. And it allowed me to kind of say, yes, I've made it to a level where it's a worldwide hit and that I could play with the big fellas and be in a big action film.

Recording would have to be "Save The Best for Last" because with the naysayers, my stuff came out, and it was a hit, for week after week number one on the charts. Like, OK, well, I guess she's here to stay.

And for television, it would probably be "Ugly Betty" and Wilhelmina Slater. And I got three Emmy nominations from that as well. So that would be the role that I would think was the defining TV role.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: Tell me about the work that you're doing with Black Theater United.

VANESSA WILLIAMS: Black Theater United came about after the death of George Floyd. And we wanted to know what we could do. Part of our mission is for advocacy. And it's been about inclusion and diversity and changing the landscape of theater, not only more programming to see more Black shows, but down to ushers and unions and stagehands and staffing and creative teams, directors, producers, casting, board members. All those things are being introduced in terms of change and inclusion.

And we're really happy to be able to make such a strong and powerful statement and change within the nine months that we've been together.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: Do you think the theater community needed a year like 2020 to actually start addressing some of the systemic racial issues happening within the industry?

VANESSA WILLIAMS: I certainly think that people are listening now. These issues have been around for ages. But the fact that people are listening to stories and resonating with the stories about diversity and looking around at their systematically whitewashed worlds and saying, oh, I get it now. I don't see a lot of diversity. Now people are willing to listen and make a change.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: Which is why I loved hearing the song "Stand for Change." So tell me why you guys wanted to put that out.

VANESSA WILLIAMS: "Stand for Change" came to me from my dear friend Phil Gholston who wrote "Save the Best for Last" and "Sweetest Days" and some of my biggest hits. He's a professor now at Steinhardt NYU. And I'm a visiting professor there this past year.

And Dave Schroeder, another professor there, who's also in Steinhardt, they wrote a song together. And it's called "Stand for Change." And it's all about the change that has happened in the world and what we plan on doing as our legacy.

BRITTANY JONES COOPER: Much has been made about race and gender in Hollywood in front of and behind the camera and the desire for more parity, more equity. What space do you see that you would like to see more diversity in Hollywood?

VANESSA WILLIAMS: Well, it's been phenomenal. When I walk on a set now and to see the amount of people that are of color in different occupations all over the set, that has been a game-changer. I want people to know that, yes, there has been a real, tremendous change.

I've been in the business for-- oof-- almost 38 years right now. So I've seen it from the '80s to now, a significant change. And also with material, I mean, you go on Netflix, and there's a plethora of documentaries and features and television shows that are diverse and have diverse casts and diverse themes. So again, we're there.

Can there be more? Of course there's more. But I see it. What I'd like to see is more mentorship, that meaning behind the scenes as opposed to in front of the scenes. So camera operators, DPs, directors having apprenticeships with young Black people, learning how to do every aspect of making movies, making television. I would love to see more people actively taking other young Black talent under their wings to teach them the ropes. All those things can be helped with mentorship because that's where it all happens, teaching and educating.

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