Ford F-150 Raptor R, Kia Telluride and SEMA highlights | Autoblog Podcast #754

In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor, Green, John Beltz Snyder and Associate Editor Byron Hurd. Byron has been sending the 2023 Ford F-150 Raptor R on the sand dunes of Lake Michigan. John has been off-roading in the updated 2023 Kia Telluride. Greg has been spending time in the Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro, Chevy Traverse High Country and Volvo V60 Cross Country. Next, they talk about the news, include SEMA highlights and the reveal of the 2023 Ford Transit Trail. Finally, they reach into the mailbag and discuss the Cadillac Celestiq's design.

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Video Transcript


GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to "The Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. We have an awesome show for you today, lots of cool things that we've been driving, some of them on-road and some of them off-road. With that, I'm going to bring in associate editor Byron Hurd who's been driving the Ford F-150 Raptor R, I assume mostly off-road. What's going on, man?

BYRON HURD: Yeah. [LAUGHS] Yeah. Oh, man. That was an experience. We had the trucks out at Silver Lake, I guess it's State Park, out north of Muskegon on Lake Michigan. And we had an absolute blast with those things.

That truck is everything you thought it would be, maybe even a little bit more. It's a-- it's-- it's tight, feels like-- it feels like a performance truck. It doesn't just feel like a truck that-- that happens to have a lot of power. Like it actually feels controlled and dialed in.

But man, it's big. Like it's-- it was shocking to me just driving on the highway to and from how often the like feedback and the lane departure warning kept triggering. Because I wasn't actually crossing the lines, but I was drifting so close to them in the construction zones with the narrow lanes that the truck was just freaking out. It is a big wide truck.

But I mean, Ford's obviously very confident. They sent us out there. They set us up with a jump. They were like, send it. Like, we'll tell you how fast to go. All you have to do is point, shoot, and go. And [LAUGHS] we did a lot of that and a lot of impromptu drag racing, which was also heavily encouraged, but in the sand still, of course.

But they had markers set up for us out there where we could actually like, you know, do just-- go full on. Like we went three wide at a couple of points, just blasting down the dunes. It was-- it's an absolute riot. I-- personally, like this is not the type of vehicle that I would ever be interested in owning. But man, it is so much fun to drive.

GREG MIGLIORE: Tell you what, this sounds like an absolute riot. So we've got to lead off the show with that. And we'll get more-- more into that in just a second. But I also want to bring in our other co-host, senior editor for all things green, John Snyder, who's been driving the Kia Telluride. What's up, man?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Hey, Kia Telluride's good. But I am-- I'm jealous about that [LAUGHS] Raptor R.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It sounds like a lot of fun.

GREG MIGLIORE: So Silver Lake dunes, that is a beach essentially on the west side of the state. Not the most obvious place to take your F-150 unless of course it's a Raptor. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what the R signifies for the F-150 Raptor.

BYRON HURD: So it's Ford's equivalent to the Ram TRX. It's supercharged V8. It's the 5.2 liter with a big-- actually a larger supercharger on it, I believe, than it has in the GT500, but it produces less power. So it's 700 horsepower dead on. So it's two shy of the TRX.

And of course, we all asked Ford, couldn't you just found three horsepower just to say it did it? I mean, why not, right? But they were saying, well, we're looking at a more holistic approach. This is all about having a truck that's already as capable as the existing V6 Raptor that doesn't sacrifice anything to get more power.

And so, it's the chassis is virtually identical. The spring rates were adjusted to account for the extra weight of the V8. But other than that, they changed nothing. Same brakes, same everything, because the V6 was-- I'm not going to say overbuilt, because I think that's misusing the term. But it was built with this in mind.

So the idea was, we want to be able to throw a V8 in here and get that kind of experience out of the truck without having to make significant revisions to the rest of it. Because they'd already gone through and redone the suspension, and we got the coil suspension. And all of that was already done with the V6. So it was just a matter of bringing in the GT500 V8 and saying, we're off to the races. Let's make loud noises.

So it's only about 200 pounds heavier than a regular V6 Raptor. And it's only about 100 pounds heavier than a V6 Raptor with the 37-inch wheel tire package, which is standard on the R. You can't get it without it. Which is, from what we're hearing, it's kind of the reason why it's not any quicker to 60 than it seems like it actually is.

We didn't get to do instrumented testing with it. But seat of the pants, I mean, it's obviously very fast. And whether it actually ends up being faster than the TRX or just as fast as the TRX kind of remains to be seen. But on paper, I mean, it's got an almost 500-pound weight advantage over the RAM. And I mean, that matters.


BYRON HURD: When you're off-road, and you're throwing that much mass around, even on those big heavy duty suspensions, the less you have, the less the truck has to deal with in order to get itself turned, get itself out of a hole, the better.

And I mean, you can really feel how tight that Raptor feels. It doesn't feel like they-- it doesn't feel like there's a V8 in it, which is a weird thing to say about a truck. Like it doesn't feel like it's the biggest of the big Raptors. It just feels like a Raptor that happens to be really stinking fast.

GREG MIGLIORE: I'm curious, like, you're looking for a very capable off-roader. I tend to think smaller, like to your point, more like, let's see what size Wrangler I might want for maybe my, you know, weekend adventures, or, you know, the Tacoma, which is something I drove. And we'll get to that in a minute here, in TRD pro trim. You know, it's definitely, I don't think large truck.

And we actually talked about this last week on the show. James [? Riswick ?] drove the Ram Rebel. And that is a very large truck. So to me, it's almost like for vehicles like this, you know, they do have a very defined purpose, which, you know, some of the things you do, you mentioned earlier, like burnouts, drag races, like that's where you have some fun with these trucks, is just more like almost wide open spaces where the terrain is soft, if you will.

BYRON HURD: Yeah. And realistically, like part of Silver Lake, this is a little forested area on top of some dunes where they actually had us at a pretty good clip kind of weaving in between trees and rocks and all that kind of stuff. And while it was fun from a technical perspective because, you know, I like driving on racetracks, so you give me something like that to-- to navigate as fast as possible, I could spend the rest of my life trying.

But it's definitely not nimble the way a two-door Bronco or a two-door Wrangler is. It's-- it's a big heavy freight train of a truck. And when you, like it's technically short cab, short bed, because they wanted it to be a quote unquote small F-150, but still a crew cab. So it's big.

And just doing donuts in that, it would be so easy to get too much steering into the car to the point where it pulls all your power and you have to loosen it back up and widen your arc just to make sure you can keep momentum. And when-- you know, we have a smaller vehicle, you can chuck it around a little bit more. The long wheelbase makes it very stable. But that doesn't do you any favors in terms of maneuverability.

And I'm with you. I'm a Wrangler guy. I have been forever. My family has been forever. And we've always been two doors for as long as that's been the option. And yeah, I'm with you. Like the technical weaving in and out of rocks and trees and all that kind of stuff appeals to me more than the like overland blasting.

But I mean, just because they're for different customers doesn't mean one is better or worse. And I mean, Ford's put together an excellent truck. And really the only things I would change objectively would be an improvement to the interior, which is still a little bit behind the Rams. It's just not quite as nice. It's pretty good. Not quite as nice.

And maybe just a few more features that really lean into the sporty aspect of it for the street. Because like there's no launch control, which is pretty much ubiquitous on modern performance cars. And you know, Ford's engineers, maybe said, like, what does that matter in this? Well, of course, we're all thinking, well, you want to beat the TRX guy, right? So he'd want every advantage you can get.

But it was really interesting listening to Ford engineers talk about the V8 R as kind of like there was always this plan to bring the V8 back to Raptor. But I think until TRX came about, this was not the way they visualized it being executed. It would have been the Coyote.

It would have been something that would have been probably normally aspirated, or maybe a smaller displacement boosted V8, not making nearly this much power. It was TRX that, I'm not going to say it forced Ford's hand, but you know, competition is a thing.

And when you're Ford and you've been building the Raptor for a decade, and you've kind of had the market cornered on fast trucks and someone comes along and, you know, takes your legs out from under you like that, it makes sense to respond.

And I mean, they had the perfect platform to do it, so why not. But it's interesting to see like the product we actually got versus maybe the product that Ford would have liked to build, which hopefully one day we'll be able to tell that story. But for now they-- they're keeping kind of quiet about it, so.

GREG MIGLIORE: That 5.2 liter V8 really just-- I think, you mentioned it's kind of a-- it's a tactical response, let's put it that way, a proportional response, if you will. But I think pulling it from the GT500, I mean, you know, you're not going to lose any votes with that, let me put it that way. You know it's--


GREG MIGLIORE: Can't wait to drive it. And I've always liked how the Raptor, I think-- and I've obviously not driven the Raptor R. But just having driven a couple of generations of the Raptor now, it's really like the bad boy of like the supertruck segment as it is.

It's to me, like the RAM does a good job, like the TRX of almost affecting some of the creature comforts that you could get in the different RAM trim levels. It's like literally the suspension of the truck-- the trucks are differently.

So just by its very nature, it's super capable, but it can also be very, very comfortable. And I actually, you know, I think the Ram does the best job of being the most luxurious truck, hot take alert here, if you will. But I think the Ram really-- or the Raptor really steers into just being like in your face, take no prisoners, just supertruck vibe, so.


GREG MIGLIORE: You know. And I--

BYRON HURD: And it's OK if-- sorry. It's OK if some of these like last gasp supertruck gasoline models are crazy over the top.


BYRON HURD: Because I mean, and this is something even Ford acknowledges, the new Lightning, even just like a mid-range Ford F-150 Lightning is going to smoke these cars, these trucks, in a zero to 60 race. Like the EV performance is going to shift the goalposts so much that these trucks need more than just the power to make sense. Like they need to be loud.

I mean, the Baja mode in the Raptor R, the exhaust is fully open. There's no baffling existing when you're doing that. And it's technically illegal to drive the truck on the road in that mode. It says, for off-road use only, because it's like 130 decibels max or something like that. It's absurdly loud. If you're standing close to it, it's a hearing loss problem. Like it's a real thing. But because it's an off-road only mode, they're allowed to get away with it.

So like we're-- they're kind of pushing the limits on how outrageous they can make these things between this, and the RAM, and then the Escalade V, which is different market, obviously, but the same attitude. And it's just all about doing the most with these things before they can't do it anymore. And I get that. I think, you know, if you're going to go out, go out in style.

GREG MIGLIORE: Well said, well said. Final thoughts here. Did anything surprise you about this version of the F-150?

BYRON HURD: The brakes.


BYRON HURD: Yeah. Going in thinking they would-- knowing that they weren't upgraded from the regular Raptor. And driving on sand, where you know, you're dealing with traction issues, whether you're just cruising along or where you're actually pushing it.

And it-- especially like just doing those repeated acceleration runs over, and over, and over again, and then coming down from that, having just a couple of yards basically of runoff afterwards, and coming back around, like the whole-- the trucks just smelled like friction material the entire time.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Because-- because those traction control systems are working like crazy trying to keep the thing pointed straight while you're accelerating. And then you have to get hard on the brakes and the shutdown.

So like, we were using the brakes probably just as hard as we were using the engine in those acceleration runs. And it kept going every time. The way you could actually just haul down on the truck in the sand and actually get it to stop quickly really impressed me. It's-- it's surprisingly strong in braking.

GREG MIGLIORE: Interesting. All right. So let's shift gears here a little bit. Believe it or not, it looks like John probably drove the Telluride on-road most of the time. Although if you look at some of the pictures here, he's really out in the wilderness, it looks like. And of course, the press shots always show the Telluride literally looking like it's doing Baja or Bonneville or something.


GREG MIGLIORE: Because you know, whenever I've done-- test-driven the Telluride, that's what I do. I seek out some rugged course. I head straight to Holly Oaks. That's how I roll. But it's a hugely important vehicle. They were very hard to get, even before like the chip shortage and inflation, a very in-demand vehicle.

For the most recent generation, we basically considered it along with the Palisade one of our favorite largeish crossovers. So I'm curious. I mean, that's-- it had some pretty big shoes to fill. You know, does it-- does it live up, if you will? John, what do you think?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Well, the changes to the vehicle itself are sort of incremental. There's some more techs, more driver assistance, some light face-lifting going on, some added convenience features. The big change for 2023 is the addition of the X line and X Pro trims, which are sort of the-- sort of like the Subaru Wilderness or some akin to that, just lightly off-roadish, not-- nothing crazy.

But we did actually take the X Pro off-road here at a ranch outside of San Antonio. And-- and we were crossing ditches, and you know, rock piles, and things like that. And it behaves really well. You know, we have a-- my wife daily drives a Palisade. And you know, there's no off-roadish trim there.

But we take that on some of the RV trails near our cottage just-- just for fun, just because that's how you can get from our cottage to one of the restaurants in the area. [LAUGHS] And it's, you know, perfectly capable in those situations.

The X line, X Pro add a little more ground clearance, I think 4/10 of an inch. The X Pro adds all-terrain tires, a little bit of suspension tuning, and yeah. It was actually, I couldn't tell-- I didn't get to try it back-to-back with the regular Telluride to see how much better it is off-road.

I was kind of surprised at some of the things we were doing. Lots of one, sometimes two wheels in the air sort of things. And it was finding traction. And you know, it wasn't getting stuck.

But yeah, some of the other changes to it, like the digital view mirror, and you know, the addition of the highway driving assist too, which has better logic and machine learning for cruise control. And it'll better account for what other cars are doing around you. Those make a little bit of difference in day-to-day life.

And people aren't going to take their Telluride off-road very often, even if they do have the X Pro. But it will get you to a campsite. But those little things, like those little tech and convenience things are what make life a little better in this.

And you know, I'm not sure that I care too much about the visual updates. They don't really do that much to it. But like you said, you know, it's a highly in-demand vehicle. I think it sold 93, 95,000, somewhere around there units last year. They're actually increasing capacity to 120,000 units per year.

So we were told that they joke internally, they call it the Selluride. But they did not really expect it to sell as well as it did. So that was sort of a challenge for them too. As we saw, you know, there was a time where you just couldn't get them. But now they're starting to catch back up with that and to reward those who are sticking with the nameplate.

GREG MIGLIORE: I'll be curious to test this out in like the new X Pro, X line trim, if you will. It sounds like there's two of them. I drove the Sportage in X Pro trim this summer. Didn't really do much off-roading with it. But I did like just the general, like the slight different tuning, if you will.

And there wasn't that much off-road, like really any off-road gear on it. But it was like a tuning, and then the look. So I mean, I think that could go-- you could get some miles out of that for a-- like for Kia. You know, they don't need to be Jeep, or Bronco, or anything like that.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is the look. It just looks a little more rugged. And if you do live somewhere like Michigan where you get snow, and maybe have some logging trails near your cottage, [LAUGHS] it might actually come in handy.

But mostly, it's an appearance thing, and it looks really good. And you know, those are only available in the top trims and with all-wheel drive. So no, you can't get the, what is base one, the XS with the-- I mean, I'm sorry, the LX with the-- with any of the X Pro or X line things.

But X line, X Pro, they're both lifted a little bit. The X Pro just gets the all-terrain tires and a little bit of suspension tuning. But otherwise-- and it's $1,000 more. I would pay the $1,000 for the cooler tires.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I guess. But yeah, that's all they really get with it.

GREG MIGLIORE: I kind of like-- and I will apply this also to the Palisade, the same, both the Palisade, the Telluride got like light cycle refreshes, if you will. I think I like the outgoing sort of appearances. I feel like they complicated both vehicles just a little bit. It's a little more contemporary, a little bit of the time.

I like how they both look, sure, design is subjective. But just they added some stuff to the headlights and that. The Telluride looks a little-- you know, looks a little busier up front. But I don't think it'll matter. They just-- you got to change vehicles visually when you're going to do any kind of a refresh.


GREG MIGLIORE: So I-- sometimes it's tough, you know? You have a good design that you don't really need to change, but you got to change it, so.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. [LAUGHS] And no powertrain changes here.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It's still the same V6, which is perfectly ample for this thing. You might be able to get away with putting a turbo four in there and getting a little more fuel economy. But I don't know, this V6, keep it simple and it works.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right. So speaking of keeping it simple. Let's go back in time in some ways with the Toyota Tacoma. I drove the TRD Pro. If you've driven a Tacoma in almost any point in the last 10, 15 years, you probably have a pretty good idea what the Tacoma rides and handles like.

This one's a bit different for one reason. It's electric lime green. I mean, you saw this thing coming from afar. So and plus, with all the off-road gear because it's TRD Pro, you know it already really looks the part, if you will.

I had very little occasion to stretch out any of this off-road stuff. You know, we're talking like the TRD tires, you know, it had skid plates, all sorts of like, you know, the upgraded suspension. It was like, you know, you could even see it like off the ground a little bit. It had the 16-inch wheels, which I thought was kind of cool in contrast to the rest of the, you know, the off-road sort of like vibe, if you will.

TRD trim inside, so that just doesn't really do anything, but it looks cool. Yeah, I mean, it definitely looked the part. You know, everything from crawl control, it had the locking rear diff, all the stuff you would look at here as I look at the Monroney. And of course, this is what I was looking for, the front and rear suspension lift. So the stance was pretty awesome.

This one came in at $51,637, which seems like a lot for a Toyota Tacoma, even in this era of, you know, ever elevating prices, it seems like a lot. But it's a lot of fun. You know? I mean, if this is-- I mean, if you're looking to go off-road, and you need to do it with plenty of capability, the Tacoma TRD Pro is there for you, that's for sure.

I tend to like that Tacoma frankly in a little bit lesser trims, because I just-- I struggle to find the use case where you would need this much off-road capability for your like midsize truck. You know? I mean.


GREG MIGLIORE: It does-- it would fit very well, far better than Byron's F-150 Raptor R in any spot. So it has that going for it. It definitely has more of the size and space that I look for in like an off-roader, so I appreciated that.

But to me, I look at the Tacoma, it is just like, you can get it in a lot of different flavors, and this was just the flavor that happened to-- it happened to come in. And that made it more fun. It didn't really change my thoughts on the Tacoma, if you will, which is it's still a pretty dated truck, if you will.


GREG MIGLIORE: But they did do some light tweaks like a year or two ago, but not much. You know, the thing that really struck me is, is it fun to drive around town like in an off-road like monster truck? Sure it is.

It's not so much fun to get on the Expressway and drive up and down 75 with those like off-road tires, with all the off-road stuff. Like I literally was holding my hands out, and I turned to my wife, I'm like, look at my hands. And she's like, are you OK? I'm like, I'm fine. That's the truck. There was so much vibration going out through the wheels.


GREG MIGLIORE: So I mean, like it's interesting, because I have a lot of people like that think, yeah, I think I want to get like a Taco, or a Forerunner, and sometimes I'm among those people, or like a Land Cruiser, take it up a notch. The honest answer is, is they're great for driving around town. They're great for off-roading. But there's like sort of in between use cases.

And I would just put it this way. Like if you think you want like a rough and tough off-roader to, as we would say, go up north, think about your drive up north. You know? Are you going to go up north and like scale the sand dunes like Byron just did, or maybe do some trailing, like you might do, John? Cool. But if you've got something with the four-wheel drive, a little bit of clearance, and then maybe you just want to get a few extra things because it looks cool or you think you need it, more power to you.

But I tell you what. Driving the Tacoma TRD Pro from say suburban Detroit to say the UP, man, you're going to feel tired when you hit the Mackinac Bridge. Your arms are going to be tired from keeping that thing straight and narrow on the road. You are going to be a little beat up. So to me, that's sort of like, you know, the contrast, if you will, like of some of these things. I can't believe how many people roll around town in Jeep Wranglers. Like I love the Wrangler.


GREG MIGLIORE: But it's like, you want to just feel like you've had like your back like mis-adjusted by like some chiropractor? Yeah, go to 7-Eleven in a Wrangler. You know, a Wrangler Rubicon, you know? It's just not what they're there for.

And that was sort of the approach I had with this is, oh, hell yeah, it's a lot of fun. And it's good at what it does. But you know, I mean, like I wouldn't want to commute downtown in this thing. You know? So and some of this, to be clear, is the off-road gearing. But yeah, man.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I feel like this is a truck for Toyota loyalists.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: People who have owned Toyotas their entire adult lives, are from Toyota families. This is for them. Because there are better trucks out there in the segment, in my opinion. There's some cool stuff about the Tacoma. I like the way it looks quite a bit, especially compared to the American mid-sizers.

But there's a lot of compromises too, like the interior, the size of it. When I was sitting in it, my head was-- my hair was touching the roof and my feet felt splayed out. It was just a really weird seating position. But you know, when we went up north and did that midsize truck comparison, and we took it off-road, it was great. It was-- it totally held its own off-road.

But I bounced around in that cabin a lot to the point where I whacked the side of my head [LAUGHS] on the interior b-pillar. But that being said, it was quite capable. I just think there's better things out there, unless you're someone who sticks with the Toyota brand because it's something you know, you're-- something you're familiar with, you like the reliability, that sort of thing.

There are all the things that go along with the Toyota brand. It's a truck that Toyota made for people who drive their cars who might be looking for a truck. Not for-- it's not a conquest vehicle, in my opinion.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I think that's a fair take. I think it's also, I noticed, like getting in the truck, because it's a jacked up off-roader, you got to get into it, steering wheel cuts pretty low for somebody. And I'm like a little bit shorter than you.


GREG MIGLIORE: But it's still pretty tight in there, you know. But I mean, it's also a lot of fun. You kind of open the rear-- like the sliding rear window, get that truck vibe, you know, put the windows down. I took my kid to the cider mill at the end of Friday, and it just, it was great. Everybody walking by is just like-- it's like the right vehicle for the cider mill. You know?


GREG MIGLIORE: A truck that just kind of looks-- sits amongst the leaves and all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, it's-- I think if I were looking for something like this, I would think Forerunner first, just because you get more like-- it's a little bit more comfortable.


GREG MIGLIORE: Or like, it's ridiculous how much they are, how good the resale value is. But used Land Cruiser, you know, maybe?


GREG MIGLIORE: Maybe go that route too and try to at least be a little more comfortable. But the brakes in that thing are even worse, if you can imagine it. You know?


GREG MIGLIORE: Like how do you modulate your driver inputs with that thing? You know, like you think you want one, but like, you know, I guess it's like, what is the sliding scale between looking cool, driving something that's kind of prestigious, versus like the fact that, you know, a Toyota RAV4 is much more comfortable to drive, you know. So it goes.

All right. So that is the Tacoma. Going to run through a couple of things I've had through my personal fleet. I had the Chevy Traverse. Curious, have any of you guys driven a Traverse at all lately? It's been a while since this is come to the fleet.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: That's been years, man. [LAUGHS]

GREG MIGLIORE: Right. It's been a couple of years, at least. Few years, probably.

BYRON HURD: Yeah, same.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. So this is the High Country. It was very nice, which it should be for the High Country sticker, $53,600. Had the 3.6 liter V6, the nine speed automatic. It's a beautiful shade of radiant red with a jet black interior with clove accents. OK.


GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. So it was a nice-looking crossover. It's huge, in case-- if like I'm sure, you-- there's no shortages of Traverses rolling around Michigan. But even if you haven't driven one lately, you can see it's huge. You get inside, it's huge. Tons of room in there.

You know, I mean, parts of the interior look a little dated. Like the IP right in front of me reminded me of my brother's 2006 Impala SS. So you know, there's that. Like it was literally very similar gauges.

But you get like the Chevy infotainment system. It works really well with your phone. Super comfortable to drive. Fuel economy is not terrible, 25 on the highway, 20 like combined. I saw somewhere the car driver actually got 27--


GREG MIGLIORE: --somewhere would be car and driver probably to crack that case. [LAUGHS] But it's very nice. It's, I, you know, I don't want to damn it with faint praise. It's not the best in the segment. It's not the worst. It's, if you, I would say, if you sort of lean domestic, this is probably your crossover.

If you're a loyalist of another brand, you're probably going to lean that way. And that's not really an indictment on the product. That's just different vehicles tend to have their loyalists, just like the Tacoma we mentioned. You know, this is it. If you're looking for a big domestic three-row crossover from Chevy, this is probably it.

Didn't blow me away in any sense, but it's also very nice, you know. I think it's competitive, for sure. You know, it's just that the segment is literally enormous.


GREG MIGLIORE: In keeping with the dynamics, and wheelbase, and length of most of these vehicles. The one thing it didn't necessarily have is vehicles like the Hyundai Palisade and the Telluride, they've had a little bit of like an it factor, maybe because they are so new in some ways, whereas the Traverse just felt very generic to me in an OK way.


GREG MIGLIORE: Drove well, handled well, fuel economy is good, nice interior. Not cheap. I do tend to think I might start to lean into Tahoe territory for 53,600. But I will say this. I mentioned how you think you might want something that's a little bit cooler versus how it drives.

I mean, even as enormous as the Traverse is, it still handles a little bit better than really any Tahoe. You know, it just, it does have a bit more of that crossover vibe, which if you go back 10, 12, 14 years when the Traverse, the Acadia, the Saturn-- what was the Saturn. It's driving me crazy I can't think of it. Outlook.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I can't think of it.

GREG MIGLIORE: Saturn Outlook.


GREG MIGLIORE: GM rolled these things out and they were like, look, we don't really think body on frame SUVs are really the future. We've got to roll out some crossovers. But we know our buyers still want enormous utility vehicles. So they're a little bit smaller, or they're a little bit more fuel efficient. But they were still basically cargo barges. Fast forward--



JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I'm sorry. I'll be a little bit more interested once there's, you know, an electric vehicle in this segment from Chevy.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Something, you know, a sort of midsizeish three-row crossover powered by Ultium with the new tech that GM's coming out with, maybe even with Super Cruise and updated looks. The things that GM is coming out with now just look better, in my opinion. They've started to step up their design, both inside and out.

So once that comes around, I think that would be pretty compelling, for me anyway. I think that just sort of would fix some of the genericness of it. And yeah, and just give it a little more premium feeling to match the price.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I think, this definitely marks the-- in some ways, the end of an era for Chevy. Many of their newer vehicles, like the Blazer, the Equinox, the electric versions of them have a totally different vibe.

You know, this Traverse fits-- it fits in well with things like the old Malibu, the old HHR, you know, the Camaro of that generation. And you know what? At some point, things like this don't have to be style plays, but they can. So it was a nice weekend with the Traverse.

You know, I actually took it to NACTOY testing. And I tell you what. After a day of driving like literally like 10 cars in a day, you don't really want to hop into like-- at least I don't-- hop into like a speed three and then drive 60 miles home in rush hour traffic.

I was more than happy to get inside a Traverse, let my Android phone sync with the Android base Chevy slash GM infotainment, pull up a podcast, and drive like barely conscious home, you know, after a long day of car testing.

Which I think is a lot of the ways people will use this thing in real life. You know, you've been hauling the family to soccer, or swim practice, the dog's got to have its own row, you're tired, you want something like this. So in that sense, I think it succeeds pretty well.


GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Let's talk wagons. I am driving the Volvo V60 wagon, and I am loving it. It is the first time in a while I've driven a V60 or any sort of wagon. And it just, it's so much fun to drive a wagon that handles like a car, that handles so well, that has such good steering, that looks good.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And it looks amazing.

GREG MIGLIORE: So it's really reaffirmed my belief in station wagons, guys.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: [LAUGHS] Yeah. I've had a couple in recent years, and when they show up in my driveway, I just stare at it. The proportions are so nice, the way that roof just extends to the rear.

And it really is a-- doesn't-- I mean, it has the sedan base, but like it doesn't look like it's based necessarily on a sedan. [LAUGHS] It's-- it looks really well on its own as a wagon. It looks like it was designed to be a wagon.

GREG MIGLIORE: Which it was. And this is just to be clear, this is the Cross Country, which is, you know, slightly a little more off-roadish, if you will. But it still looks really good.

You know, it's-- one thing I will say is this, is it's small enough that after driving things like the Traverse, you know, you get in there and you're like, yep, I see why people need a three-row crossover, or think they do. Because just putting a car seat in the middle row, it's pretty tight. It's like driving a mid-sized sedan, if you will.

But, I mean, that's the trade-off. It looks pretty good, handles great. I think it looks cool. It's nice to drive a car that doesn't look like you're trying too hard, which is the definition of Volvo. Has the [INAUDIBLE] crystal shifter in there, the Swedish flags in the seats, which is kind of cool. The trim, I forget what kind of wood it is, but it's kind of light grayish. It's awesome.

One thing I do not like is the Volvo infotainment system. In 2014, it was on like our short list for tech of the year. I'm not sure if they've changed it all that much in the inter-- the last few years. It's just very-- I find it hard to use. I find it-- it dates to a time when we thought buttons were going to go away.

And it seems like buttons have shockingly stayed around. I can't believe it. And it doesn't feel like they've done a good job creating a button-free experience, let me put it that way. I struggle to change the radio, to get the heat how I want it. It's all pretty doable.

But the touchscreen is pretty small and I don't think it works great. And I think it's layered enough that you have to basically strap on like a dive watch and some fins to try to navigate through this infotainment, so.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: [LAUGHS] Well, they're moving all of the Volvo line up to the Google platform.

GREG MIGLIORE: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: But that doesn't solve the problems that you bring up, the buttons, and the-- having to dig through menus. It does fix some of the things like navigation-- [LAUGHS]


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --and streamlining the experience from phone to car. It does bring about a really good voice control system. But yeah, you're still going to have to fiddle through menus to do pretty much anything with it.

BYRON HURD: Yeah. They retained basically the entire interface from the pre-Android version of it. So like you know, you could sit down and look at two of them and not even realize which one is the newer infotainment operating system. It's surprising how cleanly they transitioned it. But you're right, the performance improvements are nice, and the small fixes here and there to some of the kind of intuitiveness of the menus and stuff like that is nice.

And you're absolutely right about the voice control. That's, I mean, that makes a huge difference. Its ability to understand fairly natural language is excellent, which helps when you're looking for features, because you-- sometimes you can literally just ask the car to do whatever it is you're trying to find, and it'll do it, so.

GREG MIGLIORE: In some of the old-school Jaguar and Land Rover infotainment systems-- and by old school, I mean a couple of few years ago. That was the way to do it to me, was just, you know, press the voice command, and pick out the radio station.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Well, because if you touch it, it might crash.


GREG MIGLIORE: Well, that's true too. Yeah. That's very true. [LAUGHS] Yeah. But I don't know. There's not the many-- just to bring this all together. There's not that many true sort of wagons, and arguably Cross Country isn't exactly a true wagon anymore. But this is among my favorites.

You know, I don't know if there's anything else out there that you guys like better. The Outback is a wagon, certainly, but it's got enough of a crossoverish vibe to maybe not be truly a wagon in the way some people might think.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And there's the E-Class, but--


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --gosh almighty, that is an expensive vehicle. [LAUGHS]

GREG MIGLIORE: Indeed. Yeah. I feel like--

BYRON HURD: And it seems like they've really kind of moved away from like tuning wagons by default to be like enthusiasts. They're kind of just, they're almost watering them down even more just to make them appeal more to crossover folks.

And like, I was so disappointed by the new A6 all-road and the new E-Class all-terrain. Both were just, like even in their, quote unquote, sportiest settings, they were still just very soft, very wallowy. They just felt like crossovers. They felt like they could have been-- should have had a Q in front of them instead of whatever.


BYRON HURD: It's just, [SIGHS] it's disappointing. Because it's the kind of thing where it almost feels like it was the kind of vehicle that was engineered specifically to appeal to people like us, and then we're the ones who end up being most disappointed by them, because they don't do either job nearly as well as the real thing.

And you just end up feeling like you could have had a really good primary car and then a useful utility vehicle, and instead, you get this mash-up that kind of lets you down in both regards.

GREG MIGLIORE: You can get a, like just regular V60 hybrid. So you can get like without even special ordering it, as near as I can tell here, it starts at $70,550, which is a lot for something like this. But that is-- that's very appealing to me, if you will, if you wanted to like, you know, cleanse it of the Cross Country vibe. But you know, that's like literally it.

Looking at the Volvo lineup, you know, the V90 is actually a Cross Country as well. So for a while, I don't know if they're still doing this, you could special order a V90, like a regular V90 as opposed to a Cross Country. I don't know if they're even still doing that anymore, just because it was so-- like I got to imagine the take rate was pretty small for both.

I wrote the story in 2013 about the end of Volvo wagons. And it seems like it's time to write that story again.


It's coming back around. But you know, electrification changes everything. I think you bring electrified powertrains into the equation, and I think you-- it allows you to rethink things. I think there's some like sort of assumptions that we've forced ourselves into that, I don't know, like the idea that people don't want sedans or wagons.

I think, you know, obviously the numbers have borne that out. But I think with proper marketing and-- there would be a way to get people excited about these types of vehicles again. But by saying, hey, they're electric, check this out, I think people might-- it's almost like they just-- they reorganize their thoughts.

And it's just like, well, hey, I like this electric car. It's a wagon. Cool. It's an electric car. And they put the silhouette, which may have been a hang-up for them this year, and they just put that aside. So we'll see. It's really more like a psychology lesson than anything else, I would say, at this point.

So that is the review section. We've knocked out five cars in pretty quick amount of time. So that's pretty awesome.

Let's run through some SEMA highlights. Interesting show this year. Automakers showed up in different ways. Some of them were there, some of them let tuners kind of like do their own things or they spread them out, which is kind of like what Ford did. Lexus, Volkswagen really showed out though. A couple of cars that stood out to you guys. What do you think?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Um, I want to see what Byron says, because I think it might be the same thing. [LAUGHS]


BYRON HURD: I think I'm going to-- well, I've got two items, and they're actually both Toyotas, technically.



BYRON HURD: This new Trail Hunter get-up that they've got, like as kind of like a TRD alternative seems interesting. I'm interested to see what they do with that, because it's like, there doesn't seem to be any mechanical distinction to it. Like it's not meant to be like a TRD Pro plus or anything like that. It's just like a kind of better thing to say out loud than TRD, I guess. [LAUGHS] But I think there's potential there.

And kind of going back to what we were saying about the Tacoma TRD Pro earlier, like and it's the same is true of the Tundra. It seems like Toyota's kind of decided that its customers don't really want any more off-roadiness than what they've been offering for the last two decades. So we're probably not going to get something with like front and rear lockers, and like all the kind of stuff that you see on like AT4X and stuff like that from GMC. But I think there's potential there.

But then, the other thing that I thought was really interesting was the IS600 Plus Lexus that they showed, which was, you know, the idea of we've got the IS500 F sport performance right now, which is the V8 kind of IS F revival that isn't really. And this is kind of interesting, because it leapfrogs the V8 again, going back to the V6. But this time it's the turbocharged one that they're using in the new LX600 and everything.

So it's an interesting car. It's just a concept. I don't actually see any reason why they would want to go back to the drawing board and engineer a new powertrain into the IS, which they basically kept because it could still hold old powertrains and be cheaper for them. But it's interesting idea to say like, hey, look, if they'd followed suit with all the other manufacturers, we could have ended up with a turbocharged six-cylinder compact sports sedan, which is something I appreciate.

So I found that one kind of interesting in like a weird kind of jaunt off message for them to a degree, because it seems like they're all trucks, all SUV, and oh, by the way, we are going to figure out this electric thing. But hey, look at that cool little turbocharged sedan we stuck over there, so.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I thought you were going to say the electric Jeep CJ, because that's the one that got me excited. I just have so many good memories of CJs, and seeing one kitted out with an electric motor, and [LAUGHS] then they added a bunch of-- they added a lift kit and a bunch of-- 35-inch tires to it. It just sounds great. [LAUGHS] I want to go off-roading in that like right now. [LAUGHS]

BYRON HURD: Yeah. And it also seems like kind of a very consumer-friendly version of what they did with the Magneto concept, where this is something they could actually package for not production, but for modders and builders and stuff like that, who want to do restomodded EV projects, which is really cool.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. That's something I would love to see. I would potentially go out and buy a CJ [LAUGHS] to convert. Yeah, given the opportunity.

BYRON HURD: That would be very cool.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: That would be.

GREG MIGLIORE: Thought the Ring Brothers had some cool things. I specifically like the K5 Blazer. It was a '72, I want to say? Yeah, '72. That was kind of sweet, the Blazer Bully, they called it. I thought that was pretty neat-looking.

I like the fact that Dodge rolled out the Daytona electric concept again. All they did is really changed the paint color and further articulate a little bit on their, sort of their muscle EV program. But yeah, I mean, sure, it looks good and red. It's a Charger, essentially. So sure, let's roll that out again, why not. That's pretty cool.

Yeah, I mean, SEMA's an interesting setting, if you will. I think Mopar used to have, in my opinion, have the best press conference, because it was always at 5:00 o'clock, which meant all of the East Coasters who, you know, at this point it's 8:00 o'clock, you're already pretty tired.

They would do a pretty brief presser. They would show off the, like whatever crazy Jeeps they had, maybe something from Dodge, throw it an old Charger, that kind of thing.

Then they would always turn their press counter into a bar. And boom, beers would be coming over the side with the press kits, which were quickly put down as people were taking like two drafts. So that for me was always the highlight of covering SEMA is Mopar's open bar. Mopar, no car, I say Mopar or open bar, so.


GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. So that was SEMA this year. Check out the site. Plenty of useful things on there as far as like the reveals. I think we've gotten to most of them. You know, it's we're recording this on Wednesday morning. So by the time you're listening to the podcast on the weekend, we will have everything up. So be sure to check that out.

A little other news this week though, John, you saw the Transit. Sounded like kind of a fun setting the way you did it out in the middle of nowhere. This is the Transit Trail.


GREG MIGLIORE: So do tell, what the hell is this?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: So the Ford Transit Trail basically is a blank canvas for, I mean, it could be a work van that could sort of go off-road a little bit. But really, it's for the adventure types who want to build a little RV, whether that's a DIY builder or an outfitter, and it's going to be-- there's going to be allocation for both.

But basically. It's a Ford Transit van in either the medium or high roof with the long length, or you can get the high roof with extended length. And it has the 3.5 liter EcoBoost.

The suspension is lifted 3.5 inches, I believe. And a, yeah, 3.5 inch lift from the factory. So you don't have to, you know, put a lift on your own van that you bought and risk screwing something up, or messing with the warranty, or getting something out of alignment.

It has 30.5-inch Goodyear Wrangler workhorse all-terrains on it too. You pick that for a combination of capability and ride comfort. But basically, this replaces the former adventure prep package that you could order with your Transit. And it takes it all just a little bit further. With the-- it's got a little bit more lift, a little bit more tire, tracks widened by 2 and 1/2 inches.

Then you can get things like-- oh, and all-wheel drive is standard, of course. But then you can get things like a roof vent with a fan as a factory option. And then you're not cutting through the ceiling [LAUGHS] when you're, you know, building your little RV. And yeah, it looks pretty cool.

The one we saw, we were out in Dexter, Michigan at this little campground thing, really beautiful setting. But they had one on hand that was up-fitted by Vandoit Adventure Vans out of Missouri near Kansas City, I believe. And it had a bed in the back, a little kitchen. It was sort of minimalist-looking but sort of premium thing.

But you know, it has-- you can get the front seats as swivel seats or fixed seats. So this had the swivel seats with little trays that come out. So it turns them into a little table. But yeah, people can use it as-- turn it into a mobile workspace, or an RV, or you know, companies that need to bring all their stuff, you know, a little bit further afield can get one of these and go a little bit further than they would in their regular Transit van.

But yeah, it was just a neat [LAUGHS] neat van. And it really, I don't know, gets me wanting to-- I've always wanted to get a van and kit it out and hit the road with it. And now that you've got sort of this blank slate.

It is a little expensive. It starts at 65,975 before destination. Supply is going to be limited at first. By the time you hear this, the order books will have opened. They open on Thursday. So I don't know how many-- they wouldn't tell us how many they have for this year. So if you want to get your hands on one, be quick, or just wait [LAUGHS] till a later year.

But yeah, it basically takes the guesswork out for people who don't want to touch the suspension, who don't want to, you know, drill and saw and do those sorts of things. There are things like pre-positioned drillable areas that you can drill into without harming the vehicle that's meant to be drilled. And then it's got things like a sync four dual 12 volt battery power supply, 400 Watt AC inverter. It's got 4G LTE Wi-Fi, adaptive cruise control.

So and that's all-- the benefit is, you get all this and it's under warranty for three years. Whereas you buy something used and build it and who knows what happens. Or buy something new and don't have it factory-mounted, and you've screwed something up [LAUGHS] with the van, and there goes your warranty. But yeah, it was really cool.

I would love-- like any of these vans. You know, we had the Sprinter at the office a couple of years ago that was lifted and really, really awesome. And [LAUGHS] anytime I get around one of these vans, I just get super excited. It's fun. But yeah, that's the Ford Transit Trail.

GREG MIGLIORE: I think it's interesting to see Ford sort of invest a little bit into its van life approach. You know, they're going to stop making the Transit Connect, as Autoblog reports here, by the end of next year. So it's the top search result in Google, if you look for it.

But you know, it's-- I think it's interesting that they're like, hey, there's more of a call for larger vehicles and variations of them versus the Transit Connect, which when it launched, or was brought over here, was the way of the future. So but things have changed a lot in the last few years.



JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: COVID did a number on the way we live and travel. And yeah.

GREG MIGLIORE: Say that again.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: [LAUGHS] And so, yeah. So many people, you know, stopped flying, a ton of people bought RVs.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And yeah, the demand is there. And Ford saw the opportunity and is going for it, sticking its foot in the door and saying, hey, we're here with this thing that, you know-- and they have partners that will build them and sell them on RV lots too. So you'll see these around.

GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Sounds good. We have no Spend My Moneys this week. But we do have something from the mailbag. Jerry, a long-time listener, first-time writer writes in.

When he heard that the Cadillac is 18 feet long, referring to the Celestiq, of course, on the podcast, my mind immediately went to the '70s Lincoln Mark V. That's my mental image for what an American land yacht is. When I looked up the Celestiq, the front half is what I expect. But the rear feels like an old Citroen or something European-- bold looks, but the Lyric pulls it off better.

OK, I mean, I-- good take. Thanks for writing, Jerry, appreciate that. I, actually, the day after the Celestiq was revealed, I drove the Lyric. And to me, it was very much kind of like, huh, I'm getting like maybe half to 75% of the vibe for a third to a quarter of the price.

So you know, I think it's interesting too that they were designed about the same time. And then the Celestiq sort of came after, which is a little bit different for the Halo versus bringing out, you know, the mainstream model. But I think it's a good look for Cadillac. I really do. I think both of the vehicles look outstanding. Excited to drive the Celestiq if I get the chance to. We'll see.


GREG MIGLIORE: It's essentially like a Rolls Royce.


GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. You guys have any favorite land yachts you want to bring up?

BYRON HURD: [LAUGHS] Well, I mean it--

GREG MIGLIORE: Throw yourself the rails here, right?

BYRON HURD: If you like the Cadillac, if you ever get the chance to look at that new Lincoln L100 concept that they did--



BYRON HURD: --with the big crazy like cantilevered suicide door hinges, those things are-- that car is absolute insanity. It's longer than any other car-- any production car they build. So I mean, that concept is something like 22 feet long. It's absolutely enormous. And when I say car, I mean including like, you know, the Expedition. Like it's--


--it's enormous. And it's funny, like you know, we're like, OK, we've got EVs, and everybody wants trucks. But all these EV concepts are coming out as big like graceful sedans and coupes. I really like that, because it kind of shows that at least somewhere in society we still have a lingering lust for things that look like that.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It's funny, while our listener mentions that the rear of the car reminds him of something European, it reminds me of-- have you guys ever heard of or been to the House on the Rock in southern Wisconsin?


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It is this weird house [LAUGHS] that's built on this rock. It's like a maze with all these weird rooms. It's hard to describe what's going on there. But there is a big cantilevered hallway, sort of glass hallway, that extends way out over this big ravine. And-- but yeah, it's just like dangling out above it.

And [LAUGHS] that's what the rear of this car reminds me of. It just looks like it's defying physics by hanging so far out past-- beyond the rear wheels, and I love it.

GREG MIGLIORE: Wow. Guess I'll have to add that to the list of things when I head to Wisconsin next.


GREG MIGLIORE: So I don't know. Sounds good.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Worth a stop for sure. It's weird.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah? OK. That's pretty weird. All right. Cool. Well, this has been a good show. Good hanging out with you guys.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, good to be here.

GREG MIGLIORE: Any fall beer recommendations you guys want to recommend? It's early November now, so we're at that point where you almost can start to really shift it to stouts or porters, if you haven't done so, or at least like sort of like a Best Brown Ale kind of thing from, I think it's Bell's, that's pretty good. I don't know, what are you guys drinking in the first week in November?

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I haven't decided what my go-to fall beer is going to be. I've been drinking a lot of just like sort of lighter beers, actually.


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Just sort of like Founders Solid Gold, things like that. But as it starts to get colder, I start to remember that the Edmund Fitzgerald Porter exists--


JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --from Great Lakes Brewing Company. And boy, that is delicious. A lot of coffee and chocolate notes, and it's just nice and dark and filling. It's almost like a stout body. So I might go pick one-- a six-pack of that up this weekend.

GREG MIGLIORE: That sounds pretty good. I will give you another-- I'll second your Founder's Solid Gold. That to me is just a good year-round beer.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It's good for when you're watching the football games, you know, which is that's this time of year.

GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. It's a really drinkable beer. How would you, Byron?

BYRON HURD: Well, I really appreciate the fact that John brought up that Great Lakes Brewing beer, because I feel like I'm one of the few people in Michigan who is willing to buy beer made in Ohio.


And that's a solid one. I'm kind of in between. I've never been a big pumpkin ale drinker. That seems to be what everybody wants to do this time of year. So I just finished off my stash of Oktoberfest stuff.

And I'll probably hang back a little bit, wait till the Christmas things really start coming in. I like those, the winter warmers, the Christmas ales and stuff like that. Great Lakes makes an amazing Christmas ale. It's moonshine. I mean, it's like 9.7% average.


BYRON HURD: And every time they brew it, it's a little different. So it's not always the exact same strength. Sometimes it really knocks you over. [LAUGHS] So that's the kind of thing where, you know, you drink a couple of them, and you've had a really good evening. And that'll be my next stop on my annual alcohol tour, I think.


GREG MIGLIORE: OK. Your annual alcohol tour, sounds good.

JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It's a good tour.

GREG MIGLIORE: I hope your annual physical is maybe before the alcohol tour starts.


GREG MIGLIORE: Wow. Yeah, good times. Yeah, it is close when you start to drink the Christmas beers, the holiday beers. Sam Adams does a nice one. It's almost--


GREG MIGLIORE: It's almost a little too like notes of like cinnamon and stuff like that. But that starts to hit the grocery store shelves, if I could get that out, this time of year. I'm actually still drinking-- I have a tangerine IPA, Tangerine Space Machine from New Holland Brewing.

I actually got another six-pack of it. I was looking for sort of like one of those blood orange beers, which tend to go well on the fall, everything's orange and yellow. Couldn't find it, so I went back to this one, 6.8% ABV. So it's a little bit of a kick to it.

And I'm working my way through it. I think it's a tasty beer. It goes good with grilling outside, really anything. You really only need one or two of them with a 6.8%, you know, kicker there before you shift over to like Coors Light or maybe Gatorade or something. But it's a nice way to sort of start off your evening at home, have one of those.

And it's funny, I'd had-- I had had one of those beers, if you will, and the Volkswagen ad-- have you guys seen the ad with the sheep? I think it's for the Tiguan. And I don't know if it's just because I had maybe one or two strong beers, the song really stayed with me the rest of the night.


GREG MIGLIORE: It was, I mean, I got to give Volkswagen credit, that like sometimes their ads are just so like quirky or cheeky, I had no idea what the sheep was doing, like-- but then the song at the end of it, and this some ad guy really earned his commission on this one, let me put it that way. 1969 "Make your own kind of music," Cass Elliott of the Mamas the Papas sang it.


GREG MIGLIORE: So and I had no idea what it was. And my wife just kind of breezed through the room and she was like, oh, yeah, "Make your own kind of music," and kept going. So that sent me down on like, I'm like-- through this rabbit hole on my phone, trying to figure out, wait a minute, what is this?

So and of course, Volkswagen, I think, does a good job sort of parking its vehicles back to the late '60s when everybody loved them and loved their vans and all that. But there is really no tie-in with that, other than I was drinking my submission this week, the tangerine IPA, and this commercial came on.

And I apparently am the last person to see this commercial. So I don't know. They really play it a lot too. It was on during "The Office," as well as a couple of different sporting events I was flipping back and forth on last night. So yeah. I mean, yeah that resonates.


GREG MIGLIORE: All right. I think I've completely thrown the podcast off the rails.


GREG MIGLIORE: But yeah, you know, please give us five stars at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get the podcast. Send us your Spend My Moneys or any questions you might have for the mailbag. That's

If you have any winter drinks or something you're about to start enjoying and you want us to throw them out there as part of our recommendations, please let us know. Obviously, be safe out there. And we will see you next week.