‘Our Flag Means Death’ Creator on How the Pirate Queens’ Fiery Arrival Heralds a New Start For Stede and Blackbeard
- Oops!Something went wrong.Please try again later.
- Oops!Something went wrong.Please try again later.
- Oops!Something went wrong.Please try again later.
- Oops!Something went wrong.Please try again later.
- Oops!Something went wrong.Please try again later.
For once, Stede Bonnet and Blackbeard aren’t the most dysfunctional pirate couple on the deck of Max’s comedy series “Our Flag Means Death.”
In Season 2’s fourth episode, titled “Fun and Games,” that distinction belongs to legendary pirates Anne Bonny (Minnie Driver) and Mary Read (Rachel House). As the series has done with the shared history between the real-life Stede and Blackbeard, “Our Flag Means Death” interprets the fearsome women pirates as a couple. But they’ve been at the whole dating thing a lot longer than the boys.
More from Variety
Anne and Mary are running a jungle-bound antique shop when Stede (Rhys Darby) and Blackbeard (Taika Waititi) stumble upon them during a lover’s spat. The long-awaited reunion of the couple –– after Stede abandoned their plans to run away to China in the Season 1 finale –– is off a bumpy start to say the least. A barely alive Blackbeard (who’s also called Ed) headbutts Stede before the crew votes to kick the leather-clad pirate off the Revenge for his recent rash of bloody crimes.
Banished to a nearby island, the wayward Blackbeard runs into his friends Mary and Anne, who have retired their pirating ways for a more domesticated life of antiquing and passive aggressive remarks. When Stede and Blackbeard find themselves invited for dinner, the bored Mary and Anne take the chance to playfully poke and prod at their guests’ relationship issues.
But given the chance, Stede apologizes to Ed for not following through on their plan, telling him that he loves everything about him. Things seem promising for the pair — that is, until Anne and Mary’s own grievances toward each other lead their former to burn down their house.
Series creator David Jenkins tells Variety the poignant “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?”-inspired episode will allow Stede and Blackbeard to embrace something audiences haven’t seen yet — a real relationship.
“They have never had to be an acknowledged couple where they aren’t the focus and the energy suck of everything,” he says. “It is kind of being like the parents of a family in a way. It’s about the kids, and not always about your emotional drama all the time. For them to settle into something resembling a midlife for however brief is the struggle of the second half of the season.”
Speaking of the kids, the disparate crew of the Revenge was reunited as well, but soon went to war over their own unspoken issues. To break down the episode, Jenkins spoke with Variety about casting Driver and House for the iconic roles, whether Buttons’ surreal transformation into a bird will be his swan song, and why you can’t just put a pirate family back together without some hurt feelings.
Why was now the perfect time for Stede and Blackbeard to confront their issues?
The way I like to look at a season is in threes. The end of the first act is when they find each other, and this is the beginning of the second act. They’ve found each other, but they are pissed. Stede thought it was going to be [Kate Bush’s] “This Woman’s Work,” but, in reality, it is this headbutt –– literally. Again, he has to deal with another partner that he has fucked over, and one that is mad to see him. But this time, he has to make it work. This time, he is invested in making it work. In working on this episode, I think it was interesting to see Stede confront the reality of what Blackbeard says, “Did you just expect me to melt into your arms?” To see him have to work for it, and see Ed not let him back in because he’s been burned and done dirty — I like to see that tension.
Audiences, especially queer audiences, so warmly embraced the love story between Stede and Blackbeard in Season 1, and Season 2 has proven it is the soul of the show. Was that always the plan, or did the reaction help influence the longevity of their relationship?
It was always part of the pitch. For some reason, the real Blackbeard took Stede Bonnet under his wing and we don’t know why. He was the best pirate, and Stede was the worst pirate, and then for whatever reason they traveled together — and we don’t know why. But like, they were together and, to me, that is the reason to make the show. The pirate genre is fun, but I wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. Taika wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. But the thing that was interesting to me was that Stede finds love, and he finds it with Blackbeard. What can they teach each other, and why do these two very different men fall in love? For the second season, it was just fun to go headlong into it, and not ramp up to it.
Is part of that fun getting to do an episode like this where you bring in Anne Bonny (Minnie Driver) and Mary Read (Rachel House), who give you a chance to call out the things Stede and Ed aren’t saying to each other?
This episode is based on a very, very thumbnail sketch of “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?.” Anne and Mary are Martha and George, and they are Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. They are the experienced couple that has the neophyte young couple stumble onto them, and they are going to torture them. As Rachel House’s character says at the end, “You’re like 14-year-old boys. You’re children. You’re just at the beginning of this.” And I think the great thing about “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf” is that it’s terrifying. You look at this marriage, and it’s fucked up. But what’s also beautiful about that story is that they are in love. You get to the end of it and it’s disturbing, and they are so mean — but at the end of that, they are in love. As the younger couple, they are asking what their relationship is going to be. For Stede and Blackbeard to look at a more mature and experienced couple and ask themselves “Are we going to give this a shot?” is a good way to orient them.
But they aren’t standing up against just anyone. You have Minnie Driver and Rachel House storming into this story to make them face this. What was it like bringing them on?
These are two great parts, and I wanted Rachel in the first season, but we weren’t able to make it work. She’s in almost all of Taika’s work and she’s just an incredible actor. She’s an incredible presence. She’s like New Zealand’s Meryl Streep, and I wanted to write a good part for her. Then Minnie just happened to be making a movie with Rhys in New Zealand, so she was already in that part of the world. I had my eye on her for months before we started shooting in hopes she would do it, and she did! They were both just so incredible.
Similar to Stede and Blackbeard, Anne Bonny and Mary Read’s names are often tied together in history. Was this always how you envisioned bringing in more famous pirates?
Yeah, and they also had a thing with Calico Jack [who was played in Season 1 by Will Arnett]. I don’t know if they were polycule or what, but they all knew each other. For us, it was interesting to bring them in and ask who they are to each other. And it was interesting to see another couple –– a pirate couple, for that matter –– that for me gets to be the scary warning that says, “You didn’t run away to China, but you kissed and then you blew that up and now you want to try this. How cute. How dare you try to have a relationship?” That’s how it is to be in a long-term relationship, and see a new couple. Anne and Mary are happy for them, but at the same time, they are telling them this is going to be hard.
There is so much comedic talent among these four actors crammed into that little, cluttered antique shop. Was any of it improvised?
I think most of this episode was scripted. It was so hot when we shot it. We were on location in a historic village in New Zealand. We were in this little house, and it was already a million degrees before you lit the scene. I mean, Taika is wearing leathers! Everyone was so hot. At that point, they like to have a good script to hang onto, because we had a lot going on –– there was a goat in that house and chickens walking around. Plus, you have no time, and you do want to get organic moments that come up between the actors. But at the same time, I want to see that scene where Stede apologizes to Ed, and I don’t want it to just go to comedy land. I want them to really talk to each other and that’s where the script comes in handy.
Beyond the fiery double date on the island, Buttons (Ewen Bremner) finally takes his true form as a seagull in the final moments of the episode. Is this the last we will see of Buttons?
That is the great Ewen Bremner’s exit from Season 2. But if there were a Season 3, I would be incredibly lucky to have him grace us again. We had four episodes with Ewen, and I just love the idea of him turning into a bird: I love the idea of Buttons somehow being the one character that is able to figure that out. But also, I really like the thing he tells Blackbeard about change. You have to be able to change in order to love something the way it needs to be loved. He thought he could love the sea better as a bird than he could as a human.
Blackbeard needs to change in order to love Stede in the way he needs to be loved, and vice versa. Those two moments laid up against each other very nicely. Plus, that scene where the bird is flying away as Izzy stands on his new leg really worked well.
Speaking of Izzy (Con O’Neill), the grouch is finally moved to tears when the crew fashion a wooden leg from the figure on the bow of the ship. Does this open up a new door for Izzy?
He’s going through his Lieutenant Dan moment where he’s lost his leg and he’s lost his hope. It’s just fun to put Con through stuff because he’s such a brilliant actor. And we wanted to put Izzy through something this season that sees him start to change. He’s a drinker and he’s bitter, but then what? What can he become if he’s no longer Blackbeard’s jilted friend? So it is a bit of a character turn for him.
This episode also pits the recently reunited crew of the Revenge against each other. The traumatized crew that sailed with Blackbeard doesn’t so easily return the gentle kindness that Stede preaches to his crew. They have to learn to live together again.
We liked the idea that there is something about trauma and getting past that trauma, even on a pirate ship. They have been through two very different ways of living and they have to get used to each other again. But it’s also a family that was separated, and becoming one family again is painful. There’s disparities and people feel like they have been abandoned, and you can’t just throw those two groups together and have them become one without a pain point.
Looking ahead to the rest of the season, what will it mean for Stede and Ed that they were kind of forced to confront the tougher parts of their relationship, thanks to Anne and Mary?
They can maybe start to reset into kind of a midlife, which I like for them because I don’t always want it to be that one is leaving and one is staying. What are they like as a couple? They have never had to be an acknowledged couple where they aren’t the focus and the energy suck of everything. It is kind of like being the parents of a family in a way. It’s about the kids and not always about your emotional drama all the time. For them to settle into something resembling a midlife for however brief is the struggle of the second half of the season.
Could they encounter Anne Bonny and Mary Read again down the road?
Any chance to work with Minnie and Rachel again, I’d jump at.
In the annals of pirate history, they aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. The pirate world is a small world.
And it doesn’t have to have any basis in history at all. It’s all made up. We could bring Calico Jack back, who, if you remember, was hit by a cannonball last season. Anyone who is that fun to play with and wants to keep playing, you always find a way to bring them back.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
Best of Variety
Sign up for Variety’s Newsletter. For the latest news, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
