"Devs" Star Alison Pill Dives Into The FX On Hulu Sci-Fi Drama

The FX on Hulu series, "Devs," follows a young software engineer investigates the secretive development division of her employer, a cutting-edge tech company based in Silicon Valley, which she believes is behind the murder of her boyfriend. Alison Pill, who plays Katie in the series, joined BUILD.

Video Transcript

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RICKY CAMILLERI: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to "BUILD at Home." I am your host from my home in Bushwick, Brooklyn, Ricky Camilleri. And I'm joined right now by the fantastic, the always great Alison Pill who is here to talk to us about her show, "Devs" on FX, her show with Alex Garland and Nick Offerman. An amazing show.

But before we get started, I just want to say, as we do at the top of all of these episodes, that upwards of 705 school lunches have gone missing for students in need because of school closures due to the coronavirus. If you would like to find out how you can contribute, how you can donate, how you can help those kids get the meals that they need, please go to nokidhungry.org.

Alison, so good to see you. Good to see that you're healthy and safe. We talked a little bit about this before, but how is quarantine life going for you? How are you feeling?

ALISON PILL: Quarantine life is full of ups and downs. This morning was a big up. We might-- we had-- we got caterpillars in the, like, a little caterpillar set for home school. And this morning, we set free four butterflies, which was like, a win that I really needed.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Wow. That's like, such a symbolic, beautiful thing to do in the middle of this.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. You know, and we watch this-- and also, how insane that these little tiny creatures, like, you watch them grow and then they're just like, cool, I'm going to go ahead and grow some wings right now. Like, what? Like a [INAUDIBLE]

RICKY CAMILLERI: Wow. Nature-- yeah. And nature goes on, right? Like in the middle of all this, nature still progresses and goes on. It does its thing.

ALISON PILL: Nature is probably pretty psyched at the moment with that.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Yeah, it's true. It really-- nature's pretty psyched at the moment. 20% better air quality? Thanks, guys.

ALISON PILL: Thanks. Just like, you guys didn't need to fly all that much, huh? Could we just-- yeah.

RICKY CAMILLERI: So are you in LA right now?

ALISON PILL: I am in LA, yeah. I was supposed to be in New York, but that's not happening.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Oh, right, because were going to be coming to do this live with us, right? You were going to be doing the press corps.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. We have a place upstate, and so we were going to be like, naturing and foresting and all of that stuff. Yeah.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Oh, nice.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. One day [AUDIO OUT]

RICKY CAMILLERI: One day you'll get back there. I love "Devs" so much. I'm a huge Alex Garland fan.

ALISON PILL: Me too.

RICKY CAMILLERI: You know, going back to "Ex Machina" and, of course, "Annihilation." my first question about being in an Alex Garland project, especially this one, is, how much do you understand about the technology and about that?

Or do you, like me, as if you were kind of focused on the big ideas and the emotionality and objectives of the characters?

ALISON PILL: In terms of the quantum computing itself, no, I have very little technical understanding. I mean, I understand the concept of like, it goes beyond exponential, because of, you know, instead of the zeros and ones, you have spin up, spin down possibilities at the same time.

So in terms of like, the digitization of something, you know, anything is just like, you have this option. It's either a zero or it's a one. And in quantum computing, you would have just many more options for each little blip.

Again, blip meaning that I have very little technical knowledge. And then in terms of the physics of it, a very basic layman's understanding of quantum physics, which even the questions posed feel so irrational and so completely out of the experience of the human brain that it is really hard to even broach comprehension. Because you have to fight your brain every step of the way.

You know, it's just in the way that your eyes are telling you something, you have an understanding that the world, you know, there's two lenses, and [? couldn't have this ?] understanding of how little you actually see and how much you believe you see.

And the same thing as sort of true in my knowledge of quantum physics, where I'm like, the particles are-- the photons can be going through two slits at once, and we have known this for years and we still cannot explain it. You know? It's-- yeah. It's insane. It's mind boggling, truly.

RICKY CAMILLERI: When do you-- when you're doing a project like this, at what point do you put that interest or that curiosity or that knowledge away to focus on, you know, the motives, the objectives of your character in a scene by scene basis? Or do you hold onto that stuff?

ALISON PILL: I do hold onto it, because I found it really helpful for getting into Katie and her head space. She's somebody who has spent years of her life thinking about these things. Like, in her moments of solitude, she's questioning the nature of existence as a habit.

So, you know, like, just-- so in those moments, in those moments--

RICKY CAMILLERI: We are all-- we are all Katie right now.

ALISON PILL: Yes. In these still moments going, what the heck is happening. And I think in Katie's case, she's a true believer in determinism, which adds this whole other element. Because in terms of motivations, motivations are kind of the least curious thing to her.

The motivation is, you were always going to do that. You know, her full belief in the fact that everything happens because of a prior causal event means that every motivation is derived from some previous cause, which sort of takes the fun out of like, I'm choosing this. I'm motivated by this. It doesn't really matter what you are [AUDIO OUT]

RICKY CAMILLERI: Do you think that removes her ability to have emotional reactions or emotional connections to those around her? Excuse me. Like, I watched the entire season in like, a day or two. So I don't know exactly where viewers who are watching on Hulu or FX are right now, so I don't want to spoil anything.

ALISON PILL: The finale just started streaming, so I don't know if people have seen the last-- I don't know who's seen anything, because it's streaming.

RICKY CAMILLERI: OK.

ALISON PILL: But it is out there in the world.

RICKY CAMILLERI: It's available. OK. So there-- because there is an element of her knowing exactly, at least for a certain period of time, where these characters are going to go, leaves her a little emotionally disconnected from them, in a way, in terms of their fates.

ALISON PILL: Right. Well, I don't know that it's-- it's a depth of feeling. It's not necessarily an absence of feeling where, you know, in the first moments of grief, it's overwhelming. But if you've played out those moments of grief over and over and over and over and over and over, it's not that they're less, the depth isn't there. Just the sort of the outward shell of it isn't.

So it's just a different level of where you're at. Like, you have more function available to you. Not necessarily that there's a lack of depth, but there's a familiarity to the feeling already.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Right. She's aware of what's-- whereas the people that she's interacting with do not have a familiarity with it whatsoever.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not that I'm not, you know, moved every time I watch a favorite movie, you know? I still am. But I know where the things are, I know where the moving moments are. So it's sort of like, is this the expectation of emotion or is this actual emotion, you know? What is that feeling?

RICKY CAMILLERI: Well, I think of the moment in the finale, I believe it's in the finale, where her co-worker, the co-worker that they've basically let go, that they fired, appears in her back seat, and she's very aware of what is going to happen with him on this drive that they're going on.

But she still has a sort of-- it's not displaced, but an odd sense of affection for this person, even though she knows what's going to happen in the next couple hours that they spend together.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. And I don't think that's-- I mean, that's the interesting thing is that she's not in a moral quandary. The morality of determinism is incredibly complicated, because you awere always going to do what you were going to do, and can you even be blamed for it?

Like, what is the place for punitive justice, you know, in a deterministic universe? You were always going to do it. Like, how can you blame somebody for doing what they would always have done because of previous existing conditions, you know?

RICKY CAMILLERI: Yeah. And so these--

ALISON PILL: And I don't think it's a lack of affection at all. I don't think, you know, I think Katie really likes Lindon and thinks that Lindon is a genius. You know what I mean? And I had a great respect and appreciation for it, and wouldn't wish the world to be the way it is. It's not a matter of wishing or not, you know?

RICKY CAMILLERI: What was it like to watch the development or to read the development? I don't know how many scripts you got at once. It's a limited series, so I imagine Alex had most of them done prior to shooting, no?

ALISON PILL: He had them all finished.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Right. So you got to probably read the whole in its entirety before starting to shoot. What was it like to read her development? Because from the start, she comes off as like, a henchman for Nick Offerman's character, and that slowly turns into something completely different as those characters' sort of onion layers are revealed.

ALISON PILL: Well, I think that's what Alex does so brilliantly, is take your expectations and turn them. Not in a way that's, you know, abrupt or unnecessary or uninteresting, not just for the sake of it, but because people and their relationships are complicated and oniony.

And I also think his reflections on gender and race are really interesting. You know, taking, whether they're unconscious or conscious biases and saying like, oh, she's the secondary, you know, the henchman. He must be in control of this project.

You know, Lily, like, the assumptions about an Asian-American woman, you know, the assumptions about the incredible Stephen Henderson, you know, who's like, the one saying, I know poetry. I know history. I know more than you. You know, the wisest person in the room.

It just looks at intelligence, it looks at our expectations of intelligence and emotionality in all of these different ways and sort of picks it apart to say, everybody's everything. Shut the fuck up.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Yeah. Which character was Stephen Henderson? Forgive me.

ALISON PILL: He plays Stewart, the man-- the other guy in the lab. He and Lindon--

RICKY CAMILLERI: Oh, OK. Yeah. I really loved him. I can't remember the actor's name right now. I should have written some stuff down. But the actor who plays the sort of-- the muscle for Nick Offerman's character.

ALISON PILL: Oh, Zach. Yeah, Zach is amazing.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Yeah. He's so good. Why do like-- what a journeyman, like, when he appears and stuff now, it's like, oh my god, you've been with me my whole life and I didn't realize it.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. Yeah, no. He's such an exceptionally good actor. And so, yeah, I mean, I think our show has just some of the best fights and action sequences. And I think Alex does that so well. Like, I mean, I loved "Red." You know, like--

RICKY CAMILLERI: So do I.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. Like, that's a great-- I mean, the action in that is like, he's really good at action. And then in the midst of it you'll be like, and here's an entire episode of just huge conversations between two characters, you know, like, that we're just going to go back and forth between these little-- these huge important moments, and then we're just going to like, car crash. You know, and it's just this web of what I think good drama should be, which is not just one note.

RICKY CAMILLERI: I agree. I also think one of the things that I liked about the show that kept me watching is that, more so than most shows I see on TV right now that are trying to be serialized, this, Alex still imbues every episode with what feels like at least a singular storyline that will wrap up.

I mean, there is a satisfying feeling at the end of each episode, and you don't get that cheap sense of like, oh, I got to watch the next one to get any kind of satisfaction. It still feels like it's trying to give you-- like, each piece of the pie should be fun and satisfying in and of itself.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. And I think each episode has a different feel, you know? Not only because of the musical element, which is huge, but also the, you know, the plot elements, where we're at. Like, what, you know, are you part of a spy thriller? Or are you part of like, a tech dystopian moment?

You know, there are all of these kind of enclosed moments. And it really does feel, to me, like a novel, you know? It is one long thing, but it is divided into chapters. You know, there are moments of breath between them. It's not just-- it is closest to an eight hour movie, but it is an eight hour movie with chapters.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Yeah. I agree with you. It does feel like a novel. I also think, and I think you sort of said this before, it constantly subverts what you expect a TV show or a movie to do. I mean, right off the bat in terms of who you think is the main character.

You think one person is going to be the main character, and by the end, or by the beginning of the next episode, it's his girlfriend that becomes the main character. And you think Nick-- as you said, Nick Offerman is the mastermind behind this, and it turns out it's kind of your character who's the mastermind behind all this.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. And I love that subversion. And it is subversive. You know, I think it is really like, genuinely progressive in terms of casting in a way that it's not just like, oh, we need a person of color because they can be. It's like, no, these are written to be people of color.

You know what I mean? Like, it's not a Band-Aid solution. It's part of the fabric of the being of the project. And I just think more people should take note of that. It's not about creating characters who could be anybody. You know, that's sort of the opposite of what the point is. It's about writing things for people who can only, you know, for specific people.

RICKY CAMILLERI: And then at the same time, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

ALISON PILL: No, no, I'm done.

RICKY CAMILLERI: And then at the same time, still having the talent, I think, to individualize those characters within their socioeconomic status. Whereas, instead of like, relegating them to either cliches, stereotypes, or some form of like, I hate to say it, like victimhood, which happens so often with creators because they're just so scared of how to talk about--

Like, each character, no matter what race or class they are, is individualized in a very smart way, while still reflecting that aspect of society that they may represent in some way.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's really smart the way that-- I hope people take note of that most especially, just because it is really-- I think having this scene that explains what the machine is happening between two women at the table is really--

I mean, that was sort of the moment in reading the first-- in reading the scripts that I was like, oh, badass. You know? Like, you're just going to have us sit here and talk across the table for most of an episode.

RICKY CAMILLERI: But at the same time, it doesn't have that feeling of someone trying to be like, look at how badass it is to have two women doing this. Like, it is set up properly. It is worked out. And it feel is necessary to the script. I mean, I hope that people take note as well. But my only counter to that is that it really takes talent to be able to do it well. And Alex Garland is really talented.

ALISON PILL: Yes, it's true. He's really talented. He's really smart he's really kind and conscientious and generous. He's one of-- like, one of the things that I'm most amazed at is how somebody that smart makes other people feel smarter.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Oh, wow.

ALISON PILL: Because so often we have the idea that smart people make you feel dumb, and that shouldn't be true. I think most of the time, dumb people actually make you feel dumb. You know?

RICKY CAMILLERI: I agree.

ALISON PILL: And I think really smart ones lift you up, and he is somebody who will put-- he will put consideration into each and every question and will never make you feel silly for asking it. And that question can be anything.

I mean, I've watched him give really amazing interviews with people who are asking pretty basic journalistic questions. They don't know what-- you know, they haven't seen the show, whatever. And he will give consideration and respect to them in a way that I just think is so admirable and necessary.

And I think one of the things that I loved about working on it, and also in terms of having people watch it, I'm like, he does that same thing to the viewer. You know, like I hope that people walk away feeling smarter and more capable of asking these big questions.

Because I walked away going like, yeah, like, I am kind of capable of understanding enough of the basics of quantum physics to give consideration to these ideas, if not the details of them, to at least put my brain to work to try and comprehend this thing that has been confounding really smart minds for a long time. And that's sort of inspiring in terms of its challenge.

RICKY CAMILLERI: I'm going to ask a very basic journalist the question before I let you go, because we didn't touch on this at all. But as you said, Alex is really nice. But Nick Offerman is also one of the nicest people I've ever talked to. What was it like working with him? It seems like kind of a dream set.

ALISON PILL: It is. It was. Although Nick Offerman is not nice. He's [AUDIO OUT] He gives that impression, but he-- before every take, he would look at me in the face. Like, if it was my close up, he would look at me and go like, you're a liar. You're a liar. You're a liar. And be like, really thrown.

I'd be like, Nick, I really wish you wouldn't do that. And he would do that. He's very mean. Very mean man. But good at acting, I guess, sort of. No, it was truly the dreamiest set. And sort of just ruinous for me, because it was such a cool experience.

And then I got to go join "Picard," which was amazing. And I had another wonderful group of people to work with, which was amazing. But there was something about this truly magical time of us tucked away in Manchester for the last, you know, in January in Manchester, where there's very little daylight, we'd just be in the "Devs" cube all day long with just the best crew.

I mean, just the most wonderful, kind crew. It just-- Alex's crew, with whom he's worked on many projects, and his DP, Rob, and his first AD, Matt, there's just nobody in there who's shouting or disrespectful.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Oh, wow.

ALISON PILL: Yeah. Like, it's just-- I can count the number of times that anybody raised their voice onset. You know, like, I think everybody had one.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Right.

ALISON PILL: It's like, over the course of, you know, a six, seven month time period. So it was just, yeah, it showed me a lot of what's possible in terms of filmmaking, and TV making, and just creativity generally.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Absolutely. Alison, I'm such a fan of your work. It's a pleasure talking to you, and I'm happy to see that you're safe and healthy and at home with your family. Thank you so much.

ALISON PILL: Thanks so much. Stay safe.

RICKY CAMILLERI: Yeah, you too. Thank you. Bye.

ALISON PILL: Bye.