Culture conversation with Tommy Orange

May 17—Tommy Orange was working in behavioral health at the nonprofit Native American Health Center in his native Oakland, California, about 15 years ago when members began watching documentaries about Indigenous people, then discussing their takeaways.

"It was the first time some of us were talking about the idea of cowboys and Indians being a real presence in the media and how harmful that felt," he says. "This was in 2007 or 2008.

It had just been this quiet thing that was harming us underneath. It felt really good to talk about — like a support group, in a way."

Orange is 42; he was mid-20s at the time. It's telling that Orange is a citizen of the Cheyenne and Arapaho tribes of Oklahoma who earned a master's degree at the Institute of American Indian Arts, yet he hadn't previously explored such notions. He sees great progress in the worlds of both Native literature and awareness of Native cultures, not just compared with his childhood, but the recent past.

Of course, Orange since has found success talking about some of the very issues that came up during those revelatory conversations from his 20s. His first book, There There (Knopf, 2018), focuses on a large group of Indigenous people living in the Oakland area; it's interwoven with essays on Native history and identity. The characters face numerous challenges, including living with an "ambiguously nonwhite" ethnic identity in the United States. Its sequel, Wandering Stars (Knopf), was published in February 2024.

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On Stage with Tommy Orange, in conversation with Ramona Emerson at the Santa Fe International Literary Festival

* 2:30 p.m. Saturday, May 18

* Sweeney Ballroom

Orange will share his observations about his work, the increasing visibility of Native issues, and other topics during a conversation with Ramona Emerson as part of the Santa Fe International Literature Festival on Saturday, May 18. He's among a handful of writers at the festival whose works focus specifically on Indigenous people and issues.

Orange discussed public appearances, Indigenous literature, and his own work during a recent interview with Pasatiempo. Answers are edited for length and clarity.

Did you have any idea There There would become so popular?

I was not prepared for any of this. I think you'd have to be sociopathic or a megalomaniac to be thinking that you're going to put out a book and get this kind of attention for it.

There There was a finalist for the 2019 Pulitzer Prize and won the 2019 American Book Award. At what point did you accept it was going to be huge?

It has been translated into 30 languages, I think. As the number of translations rose and it became a global thing, that felt really surreal. I took my wife and son on the book tour. It was a 30-city tour or something crazy like that. Then we went for six weeks to Europe, because the book already had been translated into Danish, and there was a UK launch.

You've participated in on-stage discussions previously. Were you always comfortable in front of people?

I was forced to do a lot of public speaking in a short amount of time. Regular [journalistic] interviews don't feel that stressful, because I'm just talking to one person in an intimate sort of way. But the interviews that are on stage in front of a ton of people? That was super stressful for a long time, until I got used to it.

You've had huge success in the world of Native literature. Are you sometimes asked to serve as its spokesperson?

It happens. It has happened more this time around with Wandering Stars. I think people are a little more aware; like, I did an interview with a guy from CBS, which tends to be the most mainstream type of interview. He was aware that the question (about the growing popularity of Indigenous literature) was not fair, but he still wanted me to speak on the idea of it — which is a funny way to still do it without doing it.

Did the response to There There affect your approach to Wandering Stars?

[I considered] bringing things up that people may or may not know about in the Native world. In the end, I can't be thinking about any of that stuff during the writing process. I try to write for the general reader and toward a good reading experience rather than thinking about people's reactions and the stuff that they may or may not already know.

Do you feel any pressure because of that success?

I started writing the sequel [Wandering Stars] before There There even came out — before I saw any success. You never know with these things. You can be at a big publisher, and there can be a lot of hype, and a book can still flop. Eventually I did fear, because of how successful There There was, that the sequel would look like some kind of cash grab. It's probably going to sell a decent amount because people like to see a sophomore effort; even if it's a failure or a flop, it's kind of a spectacle.

What's next for you?

I sold my third [as-yet-unnamed] book at the end of last year. It has nothing to do with Wandering Stars or There There. I also finished a screenplay for a feature film and am waiting to hear back from the studio.

You teach at IAIA. What do you tell students seeking to follow in your path?

The only advice I can give that feels true is to treat (writing) like a discipline and to put in the time. For most people, you're just submitting as much as you can and waiting for something to happen. Whatever the romantic side of being a famous author looks like to you, that can't be the reason you want to become one.