City Hall and Thalian Hall are splitting up. Here's what that could mean for Wilmington

If you were in downtown Wilmington during the month of December, you probably saw historic City Hall/Thalian Hall lit up like a Christmas tree.

On the City Hall side of the building bordering North Third Street, stately Corinthian columns were wrapped in bright white lights, with red and white trim festooned over the entrance. Around the corner on the Thalian Hall side, smaller columns hung with more white lights made for a spectacularly seasonal appearance.

It was the first time in memory, if not ever, that the 1858 building had been lit so elaborately for the holidays. The reason for the precedent-setting display of decor, however, was more than aesthetic.

"I wanted to make a strong statement," said Rob Zapple, outgoing interim director of Thalian Hall Center for the Performing Arts (THCPA), the nonprofit that manages the venue for the city, which owns the building. "The city is not abandoning Thalian Hall."

End of an era

Ever since the building was built 165 years ago, Wilmington City Hall and the 650-capacity Thalian Hall have been roommates, as it were.

Not that roommates don't have conflicts sometimes. One recent morning, city tech staff was in the Wilmington City Council Chambers upstairs, also known as the ballroom, to sort out some issues that cropped up during the Dec. 5 council meeting. The meeting was disrupted, and a rehearsal of the musical "Elf" going on in Thalian Hall had to be temporarily stopped, because performers' microphones were interfering with electronics in the chambers.

Due in part to their proximity, Wilmington's cultural and political lives have become intertwined to some extent over the decades.

Other American towns built city hall/venue combos in the 19th century. But Wilmington's is one of the only ones to have endured, surviving fires, dodging the wrecking ball and helping make the Port City special, a little unique, along the way.

In Wilmington, City/Thalian Hall seemed to silently state, we put politics and the arts on equal footing.

The city of Wilmington's purchase of the former PPD high-rise on downtown's Northside earlier this year, however, has changed the longstanding arrangement. In November, Mayor Bill Saffo and City Manager Tony Caudle moved their offices into the new building, recently renamed the Skyline Center, as did staffers in the Wilmington City Clerk's office, which was located in City Hall downstairs.

During a Tuesday morning in December, the City Hall side of the building — which has been connected to the Thalian Hall lobby since a major 1990 renovation, but which was separated by a glass door for security reasons during the pandemic — was very quiet. A painted portrait of the town's namesake, Spencer Compton, Earl of Wilmington, commissioned back in 1907, hung darkly on the wall.

Nearby, framed headshots of the most recent Wilmington City Council, before new members were sworn in Dec. 5, hung beneath ornate moldings across from the Lord Spencer Compton Conference Room.

Still, while city of Wilmington staff has moved out of city hall, the town government isn't exactly severing ties with with the building it's occupied for more than a century and a half. Wilmington City Council will continue to have its meetings in the building's historic council chambers, which also hosts various events and performances, for at least a few more months.

City of Wilmington spokesperson Dylan Lee said council might continue to meet in the old building through the end of 2024, depending on how long it takes to outfit a new, permanent meeting room being installed on the first floor of the Skyline Center.

"The truth is we don't know" how long it will be until the city of Wilmington fully moves out of its historic home, said Zapple, who is now on the THCPA board. He added that "the city can be in there as long as they like."

It's understandable, he said, that the city would be more focused on moving into its new home than on clearing everything out of its old one, especially considering there's no pressing reason for the city to do so.

For the most part, Lee said, aside from council meetings, the public hasn't had much occasion to go to City Hall on official business in the past several years anyway. Exceptions included meetings with the mayor or the city manager, or an appointment at the City Clerk's office.

As a practical matter, Lee added, it's proven more convenient for city staffers to all be in the same place.

"Instead of sending an email, now I just walk down the hall," he said.

As it consolidates its operations into the Skyline Center, the city has said it plans to sell most of the buildings it currently owns as surplus, with at least two exceptions: the Hannah Block Historic USO/Community Arts Center at Second and Orange streets, and City/Thalian Hall.

Some have expressed worries that, once the city is out of its old building, that stance might change. Asked directly, Lee stated "without reservation" that the city had no plans to sell the Hall or the Hannah Block, now or in the future.

"That is consistent with everything they've told us," Zapple said. "The position the building has within the city, it's iconic. They have no intention of selling it."

A new agreement

As for what role the building might play and what form it might take in the future, that's more of an open question.

Shane Fernando, the incoming director of THCPA, who started his job at Thalian Hall Jan. 2 after moving over from Cape Fear Community College's Wilson Center down the street, calls the city moving out of the building "a huge shift, politically and culturally" but also "a thrilling opportunity."

THCPA just renewed a five-year contract with the city to manage the Thalian Hall portion of the building, Zapple said. But he and Thalian Hall staff have also been working on a proposal to the city where THCPA would become the property manager for the entire building, adding 11,570 square feet of space to the 29,000 or so square feet they currently manage, a 40% increase.

Lee said "the city is in conversation with THCPA about these issues" but that "nothing has been determined regarding future contracts or changes in contract scope." He said he "hopes to have more info about details in the spring."

Their proposal wasn't drafted "in a vacuum," Zapple said, but rather in conversations with city staff.

"There's going to be some back and forth," Zapple said. "But over 42 years, (THCPA has) a pretty good track record" of managing the building.

That all started with Tony Rivenbark, who was the executive director of Thalian Hall from 1979 until his death in 2022.

"We're all standing on his shoulders," Zapple said, noting how Rivenbark put Thalian Hall back at the center of Wilmington's cultural conversation and led the building through multiple renovations, including a major one in 1990 that added on the current lobby, studio theater and third floor office space.

The city pays THCPA a fee each year to manage Thalian Hall and its programs, Zapple said, and THCPA advises the city on building maintenance and repairs, with the city paying for major capital improvements, like the new HVAC system that was installed a year and a half ago.

As the Hall moves forward into this new world there are lots of things to figure out.

"Everyone focuses on the history of Thalian Hall. In reality, there's a whole lot of history on the city side as well," Zapple said. "Just a ton of history. THCPA would never lose sight of that" and would like to help manage and maintain that history, he said.

It's also possible some of the space until recently occupied by the city could be used by Wilmington-area arts nonprofits in various ways.

"As everyone knows, the Hall has been over capacity for a good numer of years now. You can't shoehorn one more thing in there," Fernando said. "The cultural community has really exploded, so it's time for Hall and the city to step up."

Which brings us to the matter of the ballroom.

Ray Kennedy, who's the new head of Opera House Theatre Co., which has been the Hall's biggest annual renter going back to the 1980s, said that about 10 or 15 years ago plans were drawn up to construct a "medium sized" theater in the current Thalian Hall loading zone and parking lot bordering North Fourth Street.

"That was Tony (Rivenbark)'s dream," Kennedy said, a space that would be somewhere between the main stage's 650 maximum capacity and the studio theater's 100 or so.

Zapple, who had a hand in drawing those plans, said a fundraising campaign to build it fell well short and the expansion was scrapped. But with the ballroom becoming more available in the coming months, opportunities to expand and diversify programming exist.

Fernando has said that a "major personal focus" when he takes over as director will be "identifying short and long-term opportunities to create new spaces for performances, educational programs and spaces that support the development of new music and theater works."

Fernando also noted that what is now the ballroom "was originally a theater. There was a proscenium. Frederick Douglass spoke in that room. Tony and I used to sit around a talk about what it must have looked like," he said. "So yes, there are changes, but also a chance for the building to go back in some ways to what it was. It kind of gives me some chills to think about it."

Zapple said that he, Fernando and others have been meeting to discuss the future of the building, including what a ballroom without city council meetings could like.

The ballroom currently has a capacity of 175, but "we may be able to expand that number (and) turn it into a multi-use space," he said, with enhanced sound and lighting.

"We've been going over floor plans, different ideas," he added, but "we don't want to get ahead of the city."

With future plans still coming into focus, financially "the Hall is thriving," Zapple said, and THCPA recently made several hires to bring its full- and part-time staff to 22, not counting a large corps of volunteer ushers and concession booth workers.

"We do a lot with a small staff," Zapple said, noting that the Hall hosted more than 700 events and meetings in 2023.

As for 2024, it will be "a turning of the page," he said. "It's what Wilmington has always done."

This article originally appeared on Wilmington StarNews: Wilmington City Hall and Thalian Hall to split up after 165 years