Cadillac Celestiq and Honda Civic Type R revealed | Autoblog Podcast #740
In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor, Green, John Beltz Snyder. They kick things off by talking about the latest vehicle reveals, specifically the Cadillac Celestiq show car and the 2023 Honda Civic Type R. They discuss Chevy's move to offer incentives to help prevent customers from flipping the new Corvette Z06. Greg has spent time behind the wheel of the 2022 Range Rover First Edition, while John has been driving the 2023 Genesis GV60 Performance.
From the mailbag, a listener is looking to replace a 2003 Subaru Forester with something that can hold three dog crates and gets decent fuel economy. Another listener asks whether to keep a 2008 Porsche 911 Turbo or replace it with a 992-generation 911 for which he is awaiting an allocation.
Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.
Video Transcript
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GREG MIGLIORE: Welcome back to the "Autoblog Podcast." I'm Greg Migliore. We have a great show for you this week. A couple of cars here were revealed last week, much anticipated. The Cadillac CELESTIQ-- John saw it like two years ago. He saw it so long ago there was not even a pandemic. It was a different time, a different world.
We're also going to talk about the Honda Civic Type R, and, of course, the Z06. Z06-- we're going to work into it as well. With that, I'll bring in John Snyder, senior editor for "All Things Green." What's going on, man?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Oh, just enjoying, you know, the hottest part of summer as best as I can. The move is to go up North where it's cooler and be by the lake. That's the trick. Because in Ann Arbor, it's also art fair, always the hottest month of the year, always a lot of storms. So come up here. And I'm nice and cool. And I'm grooving.
GREG MIGLIORE: There you go. I have-- I used to work in Ann Arbor. The art fair was always a tough time to be there, if you weren't going to the art fair. Let me put it that way. I've been to it. You know, I've had a drink. I've looked at some of the art.
It's great time if you want to be there. You're just trying to work or you have to park. Whoo, it's a tough place to be. It's hot. You know, it's like Ann Arbor is just taken over. It can be very tricky if you're just trying to like I was doing-- write for a real estate magazine that no longer exists, so. But that was a long time ago.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I think it's actually over now. I managed to avoid it completely, which-- you know, some years we like to go to it. But it's been a long time since we've gone. We had a shop downtown so we would be there for every art fair when we own that-- our store down there. So that was always-- I got my fill of art fair, I think, for maybe another decade.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it's definitely for me like once every couple of few years kind of thing. You know why. So it goes. All right, so that's the art fair. That's the new section. And our review section is pretty good. We've got the brand new Range Rover. I just got out of that this morning, in fact. Price tag, first edition, it has that sort of copper bronze paint, $164,000. Seems kind of outrageous for a Range Rover.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But it's a beautiful SUV. And then you drove something that's perhaps a little more important for the industry but still probably not quite as sassy as this Range Rover that was the Genesis GV60. But it's a very good-looking electric vehicle too, so.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I was just quite shocked by it. And we'll get into that.
GREG MIGLIORE: We will finally. We will spend your money. We have a new question. And we also have an update from Blake, who we've been sort of tackling the evolving 911 situation that he's working through. So a small update there. But with that, let's get into it. You saw the CELESTIQ March or February of 2020. They showed it--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --to you and Warren. Where they-- it turns out they're going to build it. We finally get the full pictures of this thing. It's gorgeous. The headlines have been borderline drooling from some of the other outlets in town. What's your big takeaway now that it's out there, and you can share it to the world?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It-- well, at least now, I can actually, you know, show people what I've been trying to explain for years through words because we couldn't bring cameras in or anything then. But yeah, it is a flagship vehicle for Cadillac. This represents a big step forward for them as a brand in terms of design and in terms of the future of power trains. And funny enough, they designed the CELESTIQ even before they designed the LYRIQ. So this is sort of the first step in terms of design, even though the LYRIQ has come to us first.
But yeah, this is going to be riding on the Ultium platform. We haven't been given specs. But I imagine they're going to be pretty outrageous. This is going to be the car that they're selling to celebrities and MVP basketball players and things like that. It's going to be a statement for when people-- this could be hand built at Warren. They haven't built cars there since the '50s or '60s.
And yeah, they're going to hand build it there, tons of customization. But as you can see in the pictures now, this thing is big and long; very, very spacious; huge use of lighting, just like they did with the LYRIQ. It's got that sort of light up grill that smiles at you when you approach. The lighting on the inside, there's a lot going on there, a lot of really interesting materials.
There's a pillar to pillar display up front with privacy function for the passenger so the passenger can watch video content without distracting the driver. And then there's, you know, screens on the back of the front headrests. There's little touch screens between both front and rear seats to control different functions. I imagine there's going to be a lot of different functions that it can control.
It's going to use the next generation of GM's hands-free driving, which they're calling Ultra-Cruise. Not totally sure what that's going to entail yet. But, you know, this is a big step forward for the brand as they go move toward becoming all electric and sort of redefine themselves in this new era of EVs. And yeah, what a statement.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's interesting-- now, just to let the listeners, the readers know, a lot of times we will go to events. And they'll be like sort of a main crux or mission like, hey, we're going to tell you guys this. This is like the press conference like you see on CNN or ESPN. There's that part of it.
And then sometimes if you're doing something cool, they'll just be like, hey, you can't write about this. You can't even say you saw it. But we're going to show this to you. And they sort of know stuff's always going to leak. That's just the way the world works. I was surprised this never did. And then--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --they'll just pull the cover off and that's how John saw this. I actually saw the Ford Bronco-- man, when did I see that? 2019, something like that. And I think now that it's on sale, I can finally say it I saw it, you know, back then under similar circumstances. But I mean, is anything different? Did you see like-- what did you see? Did you see like foam and plastic? Did you see something that was real, how much it changed?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I do. It was-- this is what I saw--
GREG MIGLIORE: Awesome.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --as far as I can remember. It's been over two years. And I, you know, didn't have any visual--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --reference to go by in that time. But yeah, it's just like I remember it. And I think the production version is going to look pretty much just like this. There might be a couple of tweaks.
You know, this one looks like it has camera mirrors. You know, if they don't get that approved in time for production, this will probably have real mirrors on the sides, little things like that. But for the most part, yeah, this looks realistic. And this looks like-- I imagine this is what the production vehicle is going to look like. They really haven't changed much.
And it was an interesting-- it was an interesting event. It was-- like you said, it was one of those things where you get to see cars before they're shown to anyone else. And we were free to discuss it. We were free to talk about everything we knew and to describe what we saw. But also, this was during when they were still teasing the HUMMER EV.
So I got to see that. And I gotten to see the EV-- the Hummer SUV. And I got to see what looked like an electric Escalade. And then also, it was before they showed the Bolt EUV. And I got to see that in prototype form as well as some sort of design books of what is now the electric Equinox. And there was a Buick of the same size. And there was also a bolt-size Buick they showed us too.
So there's more stuff coming. And one thing they didn't have there was the Silverado EV or the Blazer EV. Those weren't even on our radar yet really. Well, that we knew-- we'd heard about the Silverado EV. But they didn't have any sort of example of whether it was a show car or design book on hand there.
But this and the LYRIQ were looking totally ready to go. And the LYRIQ stayed true to that form impressively so. The design of the LYRIQ is really impressive, especially on the inside. And so I imagine, you know, this is-- they're taking that same design language. I imagine they're not going to change this very much.
And there's some really neat tech in it like the smart glass roof. I didn't really get a chance to see how that all works with the suspended particle device technology that, you know, you-- different passengers can have different levels of shade in the glass roof above them, which is kind of neat and some things like that. There's still a lot left to see. We don't know exactly what the power train is going to be. It's Ultium. But we-- they haven't told us which motors or how powerful or battery capacity and range and things like that.
So there's still a lot to learn about this vehicle. But yeah, finally get our first glimpses. And it is really neat look. And I love that roofline that just stretches way, way back and tapers at the very end of the car, almost like a elongated fastback. And yeah, there's tons of room for passengers. It's going to be one of those cars that's going to be-- you're going to have to debate whether you want to drive it or be driven in it if you're one of the customers.
And prices are going to be astounding too. $200,000-- could go over $300,000 easy with options. And like I said, tons of room for customization because they're going to be hand building these things. So yeah, a real flagship, real halo car for Cadillac.
GREG MIGLIORE: In your article and also just in general, Cadillac called out sort of two historical touchstones. One was the 1957 Cadillac Brougham, which you have to dive deep into history to sort of remember what that was. Because, frankly, at that time, a lot of things had fins and were called Broughams. It could get a little diluted.
But this was another very limited edition car. I think they made only 400 as I read the GM Heritage site here. Again, a hand built, expensive car, beautiful, if you actually look at the pictures. It was actually a little bit more austere, if that makes sense, than, like, what was to come with the '59 just a couple of years later. I think everybody knows that car, whether it's like the "Ghostbusters" Car, or you've seen those big fins. And then they also called back to the V16 era before World War II. And that's--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --where you looked at Cadillac, where they were, like, really pioneering the use of powerful like one of the original applications of horsepower and engine technology as a luxury. It wasn't necessarily like a muscle application. But it was like-- you know, back in the formative years of the internal combustion engine, where if you had a more powerful engine, that meant you could literally go faster down your unpaved road in the middle of nowhere than the guy in the Buick or the Ford because the engine was so much more powerful.
So I think the idea there is to-- I mean, one, they're both great stories. Whenever you're an old brand and you want to sort of make something seem even better than it is, you go back in your history. And you're like, yeah, let's-- this page looks good. Flip a few more pages-- this one works. OK, yeah, that's part of the story. Is it true or not? Sure. It's a good story.
I mean, they're Cadillac. I believe them. Sure, why not? You have a history like them, go for it. All-- more power to you. But I mean, I would also say this. I buy it. I mean, it's--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's legit to, like, look at these two cars as inspiration for this really tour de force, if you will, of design the technology.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Right, like you look at the Cadillac 16. If you get a chance, go look at some photos of that. And you can--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --sort of start to see the resemblances at least in terms of proportions. I mean, they're very different looking cars because, you know, completely different eras. And they didn't want to make this look like a blast from the past. It's definitely inspired by these vehicles. It's not trying to copy them.
But you definitely get sort of that feeling. And some of the feelings of some of the concept-- Cadillac concept cars have come out between then and now that is still sort of carry over that gravity and panache and overwhelming presence sometimes in just sheer size of these things.
GREG MIGLIORE: Do you think this does-- like, this changes Cadillac's trajectory in any way? Because it's-- you know, we're talking about a very low volume car. It's like a hatchback, which is a very, like, lowbrow way of calling this gorgeous design element. But it is a hatchback. Or you could maybe call it a four-door sort of shooting brake kind of thing.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But I mean, that's what it is. My guess is if they sell enough of them and they create enough buzz with this car, the rest of the catalog-- it's the ultimate halo car. It just--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Everything else looks better. I mean, what do you think? You know, 10 years into the future, where do you think we stand with this for Cadillac?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: You know, I-- it's hard to say because this is more a sedan. And it's definitely not an SUV or crossover by any means. So I'm hoping that means that they're willing to branch out and engage with those segments-- continue to engage with those segments. They're one of the car companies that still do.
But, you know, I imagine-- you know, Cadillac has such a rich history that they'll continue to find inspiration where they can. And there's tons of source material for that. But I think this will sort of set the tone for the design interior and exterior. And I think we're going to see some more differentiation between Cadillac and the rest of the GM brands. I think this is going to sort of help them stand out from those.
Like the LYRIQ, they use all new pieces, all new switchgear, all new-- you know, everything was-- yeah, the tooling costs must have been enormous. And they said they're not going to share those pieces with the other brands. So you're not going to be finding parts bin pieces in these Cadillacs.
And I think it's going to help them stand out from the crowd and sort of plant their flag in the sand and say, this is who we are going forward. We are the premier thing. You know, there's going to be some competition in GM again hopefully. I don't see how they couldn't be, you know, trying to outdo this.
But, you know, that was a great thing for GM in the early '60s. And just look the cars that came from the different brands competing with one another. It was a lot of fun-- really cool power trains. Again, there's going to be some sharing of technology, some of the underpinnings. But I think in terms of design, they're going to sort of try and distance themselves from the rest of the brand-- rest of the automaker.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think, you know, internal competition among the brands at General Motors could be a really good thing because that's when-- you know, GM was at its absolute heyday in the late '50s, early 60s. You know, the brands were competing internally with each other. And, you know, you saw how good it made each brand. It also made them much more separate. You know, you didn't see the badge engineering, which we then--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --got to 20 years after that. So, you know? I mean, we'll see. I mean, it's-- right now, I mean, I'm pretty optimistic about it. It's very interesting to me that they-- that this is the approach they're taking too-- a hand built sedan, low volume, this expensive. I-- like, very honestly, I didn't see this coming from Cadillac. I think it's definitely a moon shot, which I think is a great--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --thing too. It's not like, hey, we're going to rethink our sports sedan strategy and try to steal like a tenth of a market share from the Germans. You know, we're going to roll out yet another crossover. They're like, OK, yeah, all that stuff is going to happen in some way or in some form. But you know what? That's happening then.
Right now, our next move is just to go huge and, you know, is a-- like a business economic strategy move, I think it's interesting. From a product perspective, it's interesting. I think it's all the more interesting because it's Cadillac. You know, if Genesis does this or even Lexus, we're all like, OK, yeah, cool. I mean, some people will buy them. Sure.
With Cadillac, it's a lot like-- you know, I would almost use the analogy of-- you know, like in sports like the New York Yankees, you know, or you're wearing a Michigan hat like Michigan football. You know, like they always think they're supposed to be good at some point, even if they're not at that moment. And when you look at a brand like Cadillac, you know, it's 100, and what, 20 years old? You know, like, they don't expect to suck. You know, they expect--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --to have something that will be world beating. I mean, even today, they still say, the standard of the world. I mean, it takes guts to say that in 2022 when you're taking on Mercedes. So I-- to me, this is a very gutsy play on their part.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, and I-- in talking to the folks at Cadillac, they are super enthusiastic about this--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --new trajectory. Yeah, you go to some of these events. And they're like, yeah, this is our new thing. It's an evolution of this or whatever. These folks are fired up to make cool cars and to sort of remake a name for themselves. It's good to see that sort of enthusiasm.
And yeah, it's going to be it's going to be interesting going forward. I'm interested to see sort of what segments stick around and what ones get invested in the most. But, gosh, I like to see, you know, a big coach like this, a big giant sedan thing sort of paving the way.
GREG MIGLIORE: No, I agree. I think this is-- you know, the Cadillac is looking to have a pretty strong 2020s right now. I mean, I think they're-- they've showed us what their products are going to be, the ones that we've-- are currently on the road have been pretty strong. We'll just-- you know, all that's left for them really is like sales and that type of thing is, will the sales volume end up coming to the point, where it's like, oh, wow, they are number one in the world.
Do they want to be? I think for them being the most profitable luxury brand is probably what they would be going for versus, hey, we sell more cars than anybody else. So yeah, I mean, I think this is another one I can't wait to drive. I mean, it's--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: You know, I don't know if we'll ever drive it We probably will. But I mean--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I really hope so. You know, it's going to be it's going be one of those cars that you're not going to see a lot of. And when you see them, they're all going to be sort of unique. And it's going to be a special thing to see. It's going to be a really fun one for all you car spotters out there to see out in the wild. I think if they can get customers and car fans as excited about this car as Cadillac is, it's going to be a wonderful thing.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right, sounds good. Well, that is the Cadillac CELESTIQ. Really, really interesting. Check out John's story if you haven't. It's obviously up on the site. Plenty of pictures, we have some videos too. But let's transition over to a couple of other kind of quicker news hits.
Honda Civic Type R-- this is really-- you know, it's-- they're building this is the most powerful production Honda ever in the United States. They didn't tell us the horsepower. But we can make some assumptions on that one going by previous Honda's. In case you're wondering, the NSX was an Acura. So don't comment. We know. We know-- in the United States.
So it looks pretty good. I think it does walk the line a little bit as far as cartoonish, maybe not as much as some of the more recent type R's. In that sense, it's a little chiller, I'd say, especially with that wing and back. Interior, it looks pretty wild to me. I like that. And this is also the 30th anniversary of the R moniker, so.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Ah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, some nice touchstones there, if you will. Yeah, I mean, here's a number I was looking for. Last gen CTR was 306 horsepower. So it's going to, obviously, eclipse that 306 I said. And then 316 is what it made in Europe. So I mean, it's going to be pretty powerful car. I don't think there's any doubt there.
You know, this is-- I mean, this is sort of-- like, as we're meandering through the final stages of internal combustion engines, plenty of these cars are still in the pipeline. They've been in development for a few years. They're going to start landing. This looks pretty raw.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I--
GREG MIGLIORE: I'd like to drive this.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I appreciate that they sort of dialed back the styling a little bit compared to the last generation. That one, it almost looked as though the designers were paid by the line.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: There's just a lot going on. And I'm sure when you get up close to this, there's going to be lots of little details. But it just doesn't look quite so busy and cluttered design wise while still looking quite athletic inside and out. I do like seeing once again that honeycomb mesh grill vent on the inside across the dash. That looks pretty cool. I think it still looks good in this sporty application.
But I think, you know, the last Type R handled its power super well. It was really good to drive, really well balanced. I drove it on a track and was really impressed with how neutral it could be. And I imagine that with an incremental or even, you know, more substantial power boost with the things Honda's been learning in recent years, you know, just been making cars that they'll-- they're not going to make a car that's too powerful for what it can handle. And I anticipate that this will be-- still be a great handling car as well.
GREG MIGLIORE: I have-- I've really been more sort of a Civic Si guy, if you will. I've always thought the Type R was a lot, you know, and not quite my flavor of whiskey, if you will. Certainly appreciate what it can do, what it can do on a track. But it's intense. And, you know, like I said earlier and to agree with you, the looks are a bit more palatable to, I think, just in general. I think it's a better looking for this generation. The last one was kind of like-- almost like that sea monster vibe. It was a bit much. Even if you were a--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It was.
GREG MIGLIORE: --die-hard fan.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It was.
GREG MIGLIORE: So yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's good that Honda continues to invest in the segment too, you know?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, and--
GREG MIGLIORE: They're continuing with the Type R.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And I'm glad we get, you know, another generation of vehicles with that fabulous six-speed manual.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes, yes, that's actually really one of the better points right here is that six speed. It's brilliant.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: It is. And, you know, with internal combustion eventually going away, this is going to be one of your last cracks at it. And yeah, I imagine it hasn't got-- this awesome six-speed manual hasn't gotten worse over--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --this generation. So I'd imagine this is going to be a great last hurrah for that transmission. And, gosh. Yeah, just the way that that little stick feels, it's so snickety and just really nice to go through the gears with.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, it's-- I've always thought Honda, Mazda, and often Volkswagen, their transmissions when used in their performance cars on sort of mainstream chassis, it's always been just a really good recipe for making those platforms as fun to drive as they can be, so.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Well, speaking of performance, Z06, I just saw one I think for the first time in the flesh on Saturday. I went to--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Oh, wow.
GREG MIGLIORE: --a cars and coffee with my son. And it's the one up on Pasteiners. I think it's called Parking at Pasteiners. But it's a cars and coffee. And we're walking through the neighborhood in Royal Oak or maybe that's Birmingham. It's like right off the Woodward corridor.
And we're both like, whoa, what is that? And he's just looking at it because it's awesome looking. And I'm like, wait a minute. That's got to be the Z06. And it was. And it's really impressive. It's one of those that I think looks better. It looks better than the last gen Z06, which now it's the mid-engine layout, of course.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But also, they toned down some of the things. I thought some of the last front engine Corvettes did get a little cartoonish with all the wings and fins and things, splitters. This one is-- it does look like a jet, let me put it that way. But it's just a little bit more subdued. It was white. Yeah, I don't know. Whoever is-- if-- whoever drove that, if you're listening, your car looked awesome last weekend.
Point of this is not my Saturday activities. The point is General Motors is offering Z06 buyers some sort of incentive. We don't know exactly how much but incentives sort of in the form of points and things like that not to sell their car immediately. And they're hoping this will, like, in general, prevent flipping of the Z06, which we've seen for a number of hot releases in recent years. You know, people buy the car, and then boom, resell it real quick.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how the points program works there. But yeah, we'll see if it's going to be enough to keep people from flipping the car. Because, gosh, you could probably make a lot by doing that. Hopefully-- you know, I think a lot of people who will buy this car are people who will want to hold on to it. They're going to be genuine enthusiasts and maybe collectors or just people who really like the Corvette and want to drive the coolest one.
So hopefully-- yeah, hopefully, we don't see a lot of people flipping cars. And it's interesting that an automaker has to do something like this to try and keep people from flipping the car. But I guess it's better than signing-- having to sign some agreement as a buyer that you won't sell it or else, you know, you'll face some sort of punishment. I think a reward is better than punishment here.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, I think the other thing is I think if you're going to flip the car, you're going to do it. You're going to figure it out. And if you're not, you're not. The incentives, the points, the-- some of the subtext that they've put in here, it's not going to make a difference.
Like, you want the Z06, you're going to be happy to get, like, the points or the sum of the parts, things like that. Or you're going to say whatever. That's just the tax I pay to flip the car. And you're going to throw it up wherever you want to throw it up. And somebody will pay you extra, whatever premium you could get. And that's just part of the cost of doing business. That's capitalism. So, you know, we'll see.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, especially in times of product shortages. It's-- yeah, it's a tough situation out there. I do really hope that the people who honestly want to buy and keep this car get the chance to do that.
GREG MIGLIORE: Agreed. Agreed. So that is the news segment. Let's run into some reviews. So a couple of pretty high ones here. You can flip a coin who goes first here. Why don't you jump in with a GV60? What-- this is an important vehicle. This is-- it's electric. I think that actually is lost on some people too.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Because it doesn't really indicate in any way that it's electric. I just assumed it was like one of the other GV Genesis crossovers. But why don't you kind of give everybody the back story in case-- because I feel like a lot of people aren't really read in on what exactly the GV60 is.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Sure, it's there-- it's Genesis' first all-electric vehicle. And yeah, the naming scheme is kind of weird because this one doesn't have the electrified appendage at the end as the newer ones that are coming out like the G80. That one's called the G80 Electrified. But it's all-electric. This one's called-- just called the GV60 and doesn't have the electrified moniker. But it is indeed all-electric.
We get two versions here in the US. First of all, it's based on the same E-GMP platform as the Hyundai IONIQ 5 and Kia EV6. So it's sort of rounding out that trio of electric crossovers. This one has the same wheelbase as the EV6, which is slightly shorter than the IONIQ 5. But it's shorter in length than both of them.
And it's kind of funny. If you look at it in pictures, it looks kind of big and tall. And you stand next to it in person, and it's actually-- seems quite small. And you do lose a little bit of leg room compared to those other vehicles. But this one-- the one I was driving was the Performance.
So there's two versions we get here-- the Advanced and the Performance. They're both all-wheel drive. The Advanced starts at just under $60,000. And that has 160-kilowatt rear motor and a 74-kilowatt front motor. So that one has a total of 314 horsepower, 446 pounds feet of torque.
The Performance gets-- both motors are the 160 kilowatt. So that is-- oh, what does that come out to-- a total of 429 horsepower and 516 pounds feet of torque. But there's also a button on the steering wheel for a boost mode. And it's similar to the Porsche sort of overclock button that, you know, it's almost like a push-to-pass button.
And Porsche, I think it lasts for 20 seconds. Here, it ups power to 483 horsepower and 516 pound feet for 10 seconds at a time. And then it goes back to whatever mode you had it in before. And then-- but you can immediately press it again. There's no real cooldown afterwards. I haven't-- I hadn't done it over and over and over and over and over again to see if power falls off a cliff.
But this thing is silly fast. [LAUGHS] It's really, really quick. You know, I think Genesis claims a four second 0 to 60 time. And that's about what I would guess-- probably-- yeah, four seconds, probably tops. Once you're going, it's-- you're just gone. By the time you think to check the speed, you're past 60 miles an hour.
Also interestingly enough, there's a drift mode. [LAUGHS] You have to put it-- it's almost like a cheat code for a video game. You have to put the car in a park and then hold the stability control button down for-- I think it's three seconds until it turns completely off. Then you hold down both of the paddles simultaneously. You have to time it just right. Pull them back both simultaneously, hold those for three seconds, and you'll get a little notification that says drift mode activated.
And that allows you to sort of slide the car around a little bit. I had it out in not a huge parking lot. So I didn't do a lot of that. But I had the vehicle off to Zach. Hopefully, he's getting to test it out a little bit. Also, we don't want to, you know, completely destroy the tires on the thing. But if you're a GV60 owner and you have budget for tires and you have a safe place to do it, go nuts with the drift mode.
This thing-- it gives up grip pretty easily. Yeah, two things I knock it for. It doesn't have a lot of grip-- both 4 and 1/2 and lateral. Whenever you-- you know, if you're in sport mode or boost mode, the tires will chirp as you take off. And then they'll spin some more a moment later. And if you have any steering dialed in, it spins like crazy. And-- but I guess that sort of helps make drift mode possible. [LAUGHS]
The other thing is the handling is a little on the GUI side. It's kind of like when I drove the Mustang Mach-E and the Volkswagen ID.4 back-to-back, I was really surprised. You know, the Mach-E was much quicker in a straight line. But the steering on the ID.4 was way more precise, way more pointy, way quicker turn-in.
This GV60 goes more toward the side of the Mach-E. You-- if you turn the wheel sharply, it takes a moment for it to, you know, turn its nose. It feels a little bit like a boat that hasn't planed yet. But that said, it's really fascinating straight line and also super quiet, super comfortable. The suspension, even in sport mode, you know, you get very little in the way of noise or vibration or just bumping around in the cabin at all.
And it's so quiet that Genesis put in its active sound design piping in sort of a soundtrack. And there's three different sound options. One is futuristic sort of like spaceship sound when you accelerate. There's a G motor one that sounds kind of like a gas engine with sort of a sport exhaust but much quieter. And then there's an electric version and the electric motor version, which says something about how quiet the car is. Because you can't really hear the electric motors with-- when you have active sound design off.
So if you want to actually sound like an EV and get that sort of oral feedback from the power train, you have to put it in this sound mode to actually hear, you know, an artificial electric motor whine, which is kind of interesting to me. But I mostly just kept the sound off for most of my driving. I made a video, where you can sort of hear the different modes. But I mostly kept it off. I like the quiet sound and the feeling of whisking away in silence other than the sound of the tire squealing. [LAUGHS]
But yeah, very cool car. I liked it quite a bit. I think it looks great. On the inside, very nice materials. It's one of the ways-- the Performance is more than is offered in the IONIQ 5 or the EV6. And just the level of luxury and comfort that's afforded here is another way that this car differentiates itself from its E-GMP cousins.
But yeah, it was a really nice car to drive. I think it's hard to tell whether it will be successful in terms of sales. I think it was successful in terms of execution. But, you know, there's still not a lot of Genesis brand recognition. You're starting to see more of them-- of different Genesis vehicles out there. And this one is a popular segment-- the small crossover.
And it's got the performance chops and the luxury chops to keep those customers happy. So I think there's a chance this could be pretty successful on the sales side. But it's hard to tell. I hope it-- I hope it is because it's a good car. I'd like to see people with smiles on their faces driving a super fast EV down the road.
GREG MIGLIORE: Certainly looks beautiful. It's obviously something Genesis sort of sorely needed, which is a very premium, versatile SUV crossover, if you will. Though I guess the one hang-up I have is I really enjoyed driving the EV6 the last time I drove one, about probably six weeks ago. Also enjoyed the IONIQ. I think that's a brilliant car.
You know, I don't know. If it were my money, I probably wouldn't step up. I would probably just pick one of the other two and go with that, just as far as-- like maybe you're foregoing some of those really flashy elements. But you're still getting a very capable, very attractive EV. So I would probably land on the EV6 that were-- if I were spending my money of these three, let me put it that way.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: But, Greg, then you don't get drift mode.
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: [LAUGHS] What you're going to-- you're going to want the drift mode. You're going to need it, in fact. No, but I'm totally with you.
GREG MIGLIORE: Very fair. Very fair. I may want drift mode. You're right.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I'm totally with you, though. I think the all-wheel drive versions of the EV6 and IONIQ 5 are plenty fast. They're about five seconds-- little under five seconds 0 to 60-- plenty fast. And the handle a little better. They do things a little differently from one another. I personally like the IONIQ 5 better. I like the lounge like interior as opposed to the sort of sporty interior of the EV6. But, you know, that's just my cup of tea.
But yeah, either way, I would probably pick one of those over this. Although, you know, when you get into the more powerful, higher trims of those cars, you're starting to butt up against the low end of the Genesis. But I don't know. If-- it's really nice on the inside. If you really want-- if you're a luxury car buyer, that's what you're going to pick, you know?
The other ones just don't have the same level of luxury and comfort, although they're very comfortable one. They're very nicely designed. They're very interesting to look at. I just think this one takes that part of it to another level. And you get the bragging rights with the extra horsepower, the boost mode, and the drift mode, if you get the Performance.
GREG MIGLIORE: And that's very fair. And if I had driven it, perhaps I might have that context. And my opinion might be swayed a little bit. I do think EVs, rightly or wrongly, they get a little bit of a break as far as like-- you know, everybody expects to pay for the technology. And those who want it will seek it out and then, in fact, pay more for it.
I think some people are often willing to make some compromises on the insides. You know, if you get inside a Polestar, like two specifically very nice car but nothing special. You're also paying a little bit more for that as it is a premium brand, for example. So I mean, I sort of feel like there is some EV buyers, who will say, well, this IONIQ 5, this looks great. It gets me this much range. It's much power. The inside's a little dull, although most people seem to like it.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: And they'll just take that as par for the course. Same with the EV6. Although the case of the EV6, I just think it's the best looking of the three irregardless of price. But you can probably pitch me on the IONIQ 5 is like one in one A. And it's odd because I actually really like Genesis design. I think they've been crushing it I think just almost by default. It's like a very amazingly good third place here. But I just happen to like the other two a little bit more totally subjectively.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: A couple of the things as Genesis has that the other vehicles don't have. One is that orb, that crazy orb that turns-- that flips over and turns into a shifter. It's a total party trick. And that's not something that would cause me to pick the Genesis over the others.
Another thing this has, it has-- you can input your fingerprint. And there's a little touch button to record your fingerprint. And there's also on the B pillar on the driver's side outside, you can teach it to recognize your face.
So let's say-- I don't know-- you left your key. You meet up with some friends. And you're throwing-- you went rafting or something. You're throwing all your gear into one of their cars. And then they take off. And you get to your car, I don't have my keys. You can open the car with your face and start it with your fingerprint. I mean, again, not a big deal.
But interestingly enough, this doesn't have the highway driving assist too. So it doesn't have the updated logic for when a car cuts in front of you or a car encroaches on your lane, and your car will sort of adjust accordingly. It doesn't have the machine learning, where it learns how you drive and, you know, adapts to that.
It also doesn't have the augmented reality heads up display, which, you know, I think is probably not really that important to a lot of people. It still has a heads up display that'll show you where you need to turn. It just doesn't highlight the car in front of you. And it's not, you know, 12 feet projected out in front of you instead of 4 feet projected in front of you.
But I kind of thought that was interesting that they didn't sort of include those technologies that the EV6 and IONIQ 5 have. But it does have a fingerprint and the facial recognition. It also has-- I think this might be available on those other vehicles. You can use your phone as a key too as a digital key, like a proximity key. You don't even have to take it out of your pocket to unlock the door.
And then you can actually share that digital key with, I think, three other people. So if you want to give other people access to your car permanently or temporarily, you can share your digital key with them. And they can-- you know, so you need someone to come pick up your car at the airport and-- or something. You can give them a digital copy of your key for their phone. And they can drive it away.
GREG MIGLIORE: I think that's a very useful feature that I think I'd like to see it in the number of cars, actually. I don't necessarily know if that has to be like a luxury premium type thing. I think that's just highly useful, I mean. Because--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --you know, when you have multiple drivers in a household, it's super easy to misplace your keys. And, you know, your phone, if you lose it, well, you make it your business to find it, you know?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So, you know, there's that. Cool.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, so that's the GV60. Wrap up drives here with just a couple of quick thoughts here on the brand new-- this is the new Range Rover-- the Land Rover Range Rover. I had-- I think I told you this offline. So maybe you don't-- you want to guess how much this one costs, John, if-- maybe you already know.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: You told me, so [INAUDIBLE].
GREG MIGLIORE: Did I? OK.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: It's buck 64-- $164,000. This is the top end model. It's the first edition. So they don't make all that many of this. This has the-- it's marked by the copper paint, if you will, the bronze paint. The only thing more expensive as far as this goes is the long wheelbase first edition. This is the P 530with with the 4.4 liter twin-turbo V8, 523 horsepower, 553 foot pounds of torque.
So yeah, I mean, there's a little bit of sticker shock here as far as just Range Rover pricing. I feel like it's really snuck up on me as far as, you know, where it was even a few years ago. I mean, I guess that's like bread, milk, everything.
But it's getting up there above just like, you know, hey, we're going to compete with the really top end like BMW and Mercedes. It's starting to get in that gap between some of the more mainstream, if you will, German cars and even the Cadillac Escalade up to kind of that bridge between things like the Aston Martin DBX, things like that.
So it's expensive. Let's put it that way. But it's gorgeous. I mean--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, it is--
GREG MIGLIORE: --it's--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --really nice looking.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah, have you driven it by chance? I realized I'm kind of late to the party driving it. I don't know if you--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I have not.
GREG MIGLIORE: You have not? OK.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: No, I have not.
GREG MIGLIORE: We-- so it was revealed last fall. And, you know, the cars were making their way out throughout the course of the year. You know, I definitely like the twin-turbo V8--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --very powerful, sounds good.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I love when you attach, you know, some sort of forced induction to a V8 and then you double it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes. Yeah, it's-- I mean, it's the-- I will say this, though. There's a little bit of like a growl. But it's also like-- for the most part, it was not-- it wasn't outrageous. It wasn't like this crazy thing. So in that sense, it was, here, let's do a quick callback here. It was a little bit like the Cadillac V-16 baton, if you will, to try to do a very loose parallel here. It's just-- it's a luxurious car that's expensive. And you want a powerful engine in it because you're paying a lot of money.
So, you know, this is a luxury tactic that they've used throughout the years, throughout the ages. Inside is gorgeous. I would say this. If you have kids, dogs, anybody who's going to ride the back seat, you probably want to spend the extra $5,000 to go with the long wheelbase model. I can't believe this is the first thing I'm saying is a complaint. A little tight back there.
My son was like, the screens are right in my face. And I'm like, well, this is not a problem, first of all. But I mean, he also had a point. There wasn't a ton of room in that second row perhaps as much as you would expect. But-- so I would say might want to go with the long wheelbase version. That being said, the cargo hold was huge. That was great.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: We pulled up the target. And they could do the sort of like run and drop sort of thing, where you can just-- you roll in. You hit the-- you go through the app. And then they bring you out whatever. And you like-- it's so quick. You're there for like three minutes, you know? Because you say you're arriving as you pull in, and then you're gone.
I can see that the employee was kind of looking at me like, well, OK, you know? Not the first time I've seen maybe a nice SUV. But what is this thing? So in that sense, you know, I think the Range Rover does have that level of panache. It has a certain cachet to it--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --celebrity kind of look. And I think Range Rover in the last few years, Land Rover has done a good job of making the Range Rover even more prestigious. Like, it's not just like, you know, an X5, X6, X7 competitor. It's something different. It's something special, you know? And they've been doing it through paints and, I mean, just interior things. You know, like I said, the second row entertainment was pretty, well, entertaining, you know? Leather-- it had a leather headliner. I--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Oh, wow.
GREG MIGLIORE: I've never seen that before. Like, I drove an Aston Martin DBX that didn't have one of those. I was just in a Rolls-Royce. Now, the Rolls-Royce had a starry night headliner--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Right.
GREG MIGLIORE: --which, of course, had the constellations as they appeared on the day that production was restarted or launched in Crewe, England. So that's the back story to that one. Talk about a side note. I've driven some nice cars. I don't think I recall recently driving something with a leather headliner like this. It was gorgeous.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, I can't--
GREG MIGLIORE: So--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --think if I have. Yeah, I feel like there's been something in the past, you know, five years that had that. But I can't remember. I obviously can't remember what it is. So that would make that-- this--
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --stand out to me more. And also, it's a car that you're not going to see a ton of. Not a lot of people, at least around here, drive Range Rovers and Land Rovers. So it's always nice if you're spending that amount of money on a vehicle to not be a carbon copy of everything else on the road.
A-- the owner of a restaurant, a frequent-- shout-out Bandidos-- he's a Mercedes guy. He has a-- he replaced his GLS with a new GLS. But every time I go in there, he asked me if I've driven this. It's just one of those cars that-- you know, because it's not something you see all the time, it does seem maybe a little more special. And the Range Rover name does carry some weight to it, some cloud.
So yeah, I think that would be a big reason for me why I would pick this over something else. I would probably pick something else. But one of the reasons I would consider this is just because it's not something you see all the time.
GREG MIGLIORE: So the-- I was looking for this. The name of the paint is sunset gold satin, which does a really nice job of summing up just how gorgeous this car is-- this SUV. Honestly, I will say this. Even though I'm driving the-- one of the very-- like, the tip of the spear here, to me, if it were my money, I would probably go with the seven-seater, more humble P400 SE with the long wheelbase-- the seven seat. That gets you the mild hybrid.
That's the 3-liter turbocharged inline six, 395 horsepower, 406 pound feet of torque, $110,500. You can even step down for the short wheelbase, which, like I said, it's a little tight in there if you're doing anything more than, like, a small family. You probably want to go with the long wheelbase. That one's $104,500. So I mean, when you're talking about $65,000 in savings, and frankly, I would go with-- I would prefer the hybrid would be my--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --preference. Because this is a great V8 but-- so it goes. You know, that's-- we've all driven great V8s before. It's-- I think I definitely go with the other one, the smaller inline 6 with the hybrid application, so. But, again, with this, you're thinking-- well, you're cross shopping this thing with, you know, the Gelandewagen, you know--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --the Escalade V. You know, you're not going to save fuel economy a gallon here. You're going for-- because it's expensive. You're literally buying this car, this SUV because it's more expensive. So, you know, I see why people would go for that.
And the first edition is very special. It's very, very cool. You know, I mean, it's definitely helps sort of position this as something that's special and different. And I'll say this too. It's-- I think the vehicle looks great. They've done a good job of sort of cleaning up some of the different elements of Range Rover design over the years.
I think it's more than 50 years now the brand is around, the nameplate has been around in some form. It's very sleek. It's got like the high sides with kind of the low greenhouse. That's how it looks from the outside. But inside, it's pretty airy, a lot of leg and head room. It's excellent view of the road too.
It's one of those rare vehicles in this time, if you will, that looks almost chopped. It feels like you're high up, and you are. But then the roof is just kind of like-- you know, it's designed to look like it's-- you know, it's not like a lead sled or anything like that.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But they designed it very well. Head and taillights look great, especially the taillights. I mean, the front end looks pretty Land Rovery, if you will. In the back, they've got these almost like L or C kind of like shapes for the taillights. Looks great. Wheels, you know, very much kind of like almost oversized. I think a lot of that is what I'm getting here on the first edition.
But I'd really give Land Rover credit that the design has managed to stay sporty, if you will, for an SUV-- I know that's a cliche-- but also in sleek but still looks like a Land Rover, still looks--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --like a Range Rover. So I think they really succeeded there. And another note of familiarity, the steering is just spot on Land Rover. You know, it's a little bit of work, if you will, to steer it to really-- there's a lot of like-- you know, numb is not the right word because it's pretty communicative. But you've got to work. There's a lot of turn-in. And I've noticed that. And maybe you've noticed that in Range Rovers, Land Rovers over the years. But this one had four-wheel steering as well. So it handled--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Oh, nice.
GREG MIGLIORE: --very well. I did a couple of just things, where I had to like make a turnaround. And it's like, oh, jeez, what are you doing? Or I was in this pizza place. Now, I did do a very tight turn-in park then have to run and get the pizza and then run out. Of course, there's tens of people doing the exact same thing.
So it was very maneuverable, far more than you would expect this, like, expensive, huge vehicle, which-- that's one of my favorite features this year, just to bring this all together is four-wheel steering. I had it in the Rolls-Royce Cullinan. Can't believe I'm, you know, making this comparison here. But it makes enormous vehicles that are often expensive so much less intimidating to drive.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Oh, heck, yeah. I had the Mercedes EQS recently. And you almost have to, like, recalibrate your brain to steer differently and to approach your parking angles differently, just because it rotates way more than you expect it to. I mean, once you get used to it, it's great and makes back into a parking place super snappy, especially for something as big as it is.
And it also makes it smoother going down the road, makes lane changes smoother. But yeah, I especially like it for that tighter turning circle in crowded parking lots, especially if you're driving something as big as a extended wheelbase Range Rover. Yeah, four-wheel steering is your friend.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right, so we've talked a lot about money. Should we spend some?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah, yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Let's do it.
GREG MIGLIORE: Let's do it. Sandra writes, "I currently drive a 2003 Subaru Forester with over 250,000 miles on it. I am the second owner. The car is old but in good condition. However, I know my time with this vehicle may be limited." Yeah, maybe. I mean, Subarus do run forever. But that's 19 years old with 250 on the clock. I mean, I think it's a good idea to reach out to us. Let me put it that way.
"I drive a lot, 3,000 miles a month with my dogs. So flat spacious cargo space to have the dog crates and kennels for safety concerns. This is super important to me." We both have dogs. Totally get that.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: Given how much I drive, and fuel economy is important, all-wheel drive is nice for the occasional wintry weather that they get up there in the Pacific Northwest. I do not have a third passenger in my car very often. So all the seats behind the front, the front driver, passenger [INAUDIBLE] will be folded flat or removed. I currently have three dog crates in my Subaru. And I'd like to have at least that much space to fit my three dog crates in the new car.
OK, so here's the field here. I've looked at the RAV4 Hybrid, the Honda CR-V Hybrid, which is sort of comparable to her current setup. I'm looking for a new ride with updated modern safety features. Things like blind spot warning are nice. Briefly considered some used vehicles. But I-- here, this is the greatest sentence right here-- I thought the current used car market is crazy. And if I'm paying that much for a used vehicle, I may as well get a brand new one.
100%. It's like-- it's bonkers right now. I would--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --only just say, if you can find a used car that you like-- I wouldn't be just dissuaded, because right now, average new car price just hit $48,000-- it's kind of a crapshoot either way, frankly. You really got to-- I wouldn't dissuade you, I guess, if you will, if you found, like, a lightly used '20 or '21 that had a good price.
A couple of other things here. Other class of vehicles considering is a mid-sized SUV, Highlander Hybrid, or even going all the way up to a Hyundai Palisade or Kia Telluride. Fuel economy is not so great, but she likes the tech. Hyundai Santa Fe, Kia Sorento Hybrid also in there, but they're very hard to come by. That is true. That is very true.
Again, other things that I'll kind of get through this to wrap this up here. She was looking at minivans, Toyota Sienna, which is all hybrid. You should check out James Riswick's breakdown on that one. He thinks it's the best minivan. It's very competitive. It's very good. They said the wait is more than two years, and they're not even taking orders--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --is what local, I guess, Toyota dealers are telling her. Also likes the Kia Carnival.
She doesn't want to pay the dealer markup. Not in a hurry to get a new car. Want to be prepared and plan ahead. I'm putting money away, so I can have a sizable down payment with a small loan if not outright pay in cash. I think my timeline is six months to a year if the Subaru holds up. What do you think I should do?
Phew. Great letter. Thank you for writing, Sandra. I think you accurately sum up what a lot of people are actually going through right now in the new and used car market, trying to navigate their needs versus price versus new versus used versus what they can actually get. And that's-- you know, that's, frankly, the intersection of life, right? How do you balance what you want versus the compromises you need to make to get there?
So I will kick it over to you, John, for some thoughts. And we can go back and forth here. This is a little bit to unpack.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah. So before I even started seeing the possibilities that she was looking at, the one that came to my mind was the Highlander Hybrid. It-- you can get it in all-wheel drive. And the all-wheel drive still has fantastic fuel economy. You only lose one MPG combined, compared to the not all-wheel drive. So it's 35 miles per gallon, which is fantastic.
And it's a big vehicle. This generation has extended the cargo area in the back. It didn't expand the room for the third row. So the third row is still really tiny. But if you're mostly just going to have it down flat, doesn't matter. You've got the extra cargo space that Toyota put into this thing.
If you're-- if you've been driving a 2003 vehicle with 250,000 miles on it, you probably have some expectations for how long a vehicle's going to last. And your shot of this lasting is probably better than most other brands.
And also, yeah, I-- you mentioned the Telluride and the Palisade. As a Palisade owner, I still think what you would be looking for would be a Highlander. Just, yeah, the fuel economy in the Palisade is not great. That's the one thing I don't like about it. And right now, especially, with gas prices, I would be feeling a lot better about driving a Highlander Hybrid around.
And, yeah, again, all-wheel drive, lots of cargo room. Probably going to get some serious longevity out of it. And, yeah, it's not bad to drive. It's not what I would call slow. It's not particularly quick. And you do have that CVT sort of droning a little bit.
But, yeah, a pretty straightforward vehicle. Lots of cargo room, especially if you're folding those seats down flat. Plenty for dogs and then some. Yeah, so that's what I would go with.
The RAV4-- I'd have to look at some of James's luggage tests, because in the real world, it's hard to tell what's going to be bigger or smaller. With the RAV4 and the Honda CR-V, I think those are-- just looking at the cargo area in those, those feel smaller. The Forester definitely has that nice height to the cargo area, but you're probably not going to be putting stuff on top of your dog crates.
But, yeah, the RAV4 Hybrid and Honda CR-V Hybrid, again, maybe, maybe, not sure. Three dogs? It depends on how big the dogs are. It might be on the small side. Highlander Hybrid, I don't think you're going to have a problem with that. So that's what I would pick.
GREG MIGLIORE: Good advice. Good advice. First of all, I would agree with that. I think that's a good move. I think, also, looking at the CR-V Hybrid could be a good move as well. Again, not the biggest thing you can get out there. But I think if you're used to a certain level of quality and reliability, going with, like, a Honda is-- you're not going to be disappointed in the long run on that, I don't think. I mean, historically, they've always stood up really well.
I'm going to go off the board here and throw the Toyota Venza kind of out here. That's-- it's a hybrid. It's all-wheel drive. I have not driven it, disclaimer, but it's the return of a nameplate that was gone for a few years. And that might be something just interesting to throw on to your consideration list as well, because it does tick a couple of the boxes. You do have some room in there. That could be something that-- I mean, it's worth considering and seeing if you even like it.
Yeah, I drove the Santa Fe Hybrid a while ago. I'm trying to remember when. And that's pretty good. I think I put-- I have one dog. She's a Golden Retriever. And she didn't ride in her crate. She rode, I think, shotgun, actually, but she fit in that thing. She's a big dog, though. So those would be a couple I would consider as well.
And then I would also look at the Subaru Forester. I think that's-- the new one. If you had an '03, you might be interested in at least checking out what the new one looks like, or the Outback. My preference tends to lean Outback when comparing the two. This is an age-old debate we've had on the podcast and as a staff. But those would be two just that I think would be worth, you know, take a look, see if maybe what Subaru is doing 20 years after your current car was built, and just see if that might work, too, because I do like the current Outback. I think the styling has gotten a little wild, especially that wilderness trim they have going on.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: But those would be interesting, just again, things to cross-shop as well.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Well, the Forester also has that cool wilderness trim.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's right.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And one thing about this generation of Forester, it's gotten bigger on the inside without getting bigger on the outside.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yes.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: So there's that going for it. If you really like the Forester, I think you're going to find maybe a little more comfort and quietness than some of the other picks out there.
You mentioned the Santa Fe. That's a great one. And that you can get in a plug-in hybrid, too.
GREG MIGLIORE: That's true, yeah.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: And that's a great car. The Sorento, also.
But honestly-- and my thing about the Outback, I agree that I like the Outback better than the Forester. That's what I would pick. And they do have just about the same cargo room on paper. In reality, the slope of the rear glass on the liftgate back there of the Outback sort of makes-- if your crates are tall, you might run into a little something there trying to get that liftgate closed, as opposed to the Forester, where it's all basically crate-shaped straight up and down. It's a box.
So, yeah, you could take a look at a Forester. I'm still sticking with a Highlander Hybrid.
GREG MIGLIORE: All right. Sounds good. So let us know what you end up doing. Hope-- I hope this is actually helpful. What we did is what we often do on the podcast is take what you give us, then throw a couple of more considerations on there, too. So please let us know how it turns out. We'd love to offer any more advice, which is what we're going to do next here.
This is another update from Blake. This series started back in episode 726. We did touch on it last week. And I actually emailed Blake and said, hey, I'm just curious, what do you mean by this? And then he came back with a couple of other more contextual elements.
So just a quick refresher. Originally, 726, Blake was between getting a Blackwing or a 911. What he's since done is actually go out and buy an '08 turbo, and then he put an order in on a new 911. But there's a major wait time right now. So what he's trying to figure out is-- you know, decide at the time, does he want to actually go ahead with that new 911 when it comes in? I think he said it was, like, a wait time of, like, two years. It's almost blowing my mind how long it takes people to get things that--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: That's crazy.
GREG MIGLIORE: I mean, 911s are hard to get, but they're not-- a couple of years ago, they weren't that hard to get. And Sandra was talking about how hard it is just to get Hyundais and Kias.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: What kind of world are we living in where you can't go get a Kia, you know? This is-- it's crazy times.
So anyways, Blake is just curious if-- the way he put it is, at the moment, I just don't know. The new car will be objectively better. This is a new 911. But he's like, hey, he went ahead and bought a 997. It's got that old school look, hydraulic steering. It's the last generation of the manual turbos. So when the time comes, future Blake and present-day Greg and John will try to suggest, should he trade in the '08 turbo or just go ahead and cancel the order and roll with that?
So, man, I don't know. It's one of those things, where I would almost say you're in a situation where it's a little bit like two different things. If I got a new 911, I would treat that as my daily driver. I think the '08 turbo is going to, at some point in the next few years, transition into something that it's not quite old enough to be vintage. It's definitely a respectable daily driver from that standpoint. But I feel like it might turn into something that you might decide you don't want to give up.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: So I don't know, financially, if you're-- you can do both. But I just-- my instinct is unless something goes wrong or you really get turned off by the turbo, you might just want to keep that 997. And if that means, OK, maybe I don't want to actually go ahead with the new 911, I want to say, hey, I spent some money on this toy car, and I need to get something a little more practical, maybe that ends up being your play-- not practical, but, like, something that makes it a little more palatable to keep this '08 turbo, but also have a sporty car, maybe just a-- I don't know, you make do with, like, a non-V-series Blackwing Cadillac. You just go with one below that or something.
So I don't know. What would you do, John?
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I would keep the '08, 100%.
GREG MIGLIORE: OK.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: I really feel like that-- giving up that car would be-- even as much as you might like the brand new 992, the-- I'm sorry-- the-- you're going to really enjoy the '08. I mean, you said it right there. It's the last generation of the manual turbo.
GREG MIGLIORE: Yeah. I can't argue.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: You-- I regret-- I had a Subaru WRX. And it was great. And I-- the manual turbo. And I got rid of it. I regret it deeply.
And in a Porsche? I mean, that was-- it's just such a fantastic car, that generation of 911 turbo. I just really, really, really love it. And if it were mine, if I had that in my garage, I don't think there's any new car that could get me to sell that. I just know from past experiences with cars that I've gotten rid of, the amount of regret that I would feel getting rid of that car.
So, yeah, that's what I would do. I would just keep that. Go find a way to take a ride or a drive in the new 911. I honestly don't get the same emotional feeling from driving it as I do with previous generations. It's just not as soulful to me. Maybe I haven't spent enough time with it. But, gosh, yeah, I just know the heartbreak that I would feel getting rid of the one you've got now.
GREG MIGLIORE: So 100%. And I think you kind of in some ways put an even finer point on my own thoughts. I just went back and looked at the original question. And Blake wrote that this is a third car. So it is purely for fun. So I would do exactly what--
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: Oh yeah.
GREG MIGLIORE: --you just said. Go test drive the new 911. And if you just do totally fall in love with it, and you're like-- like, that's where your brain's at, you know, like, hey, I've always wanted the new one, I want the newest and the best, and the power, and you want it, because it's new and expensive, then maybe that is what you want. But if it's just for fun, if it were me, I suspect that the '08 is going to grow with time. It's really going to like-- you're not going to be the only-- you're going to be one of the only people who has that car.
To use the example from my own life, I was able to just get an old Seiko Monster dive watch. I got a good price on it. A friend actually did a little work on it. And I was talking to some other watch friends, and they were like, oh, man, like-- they had the latest Seiko releases, which were crazy expensive and crazy capable as far as diving to the Lusitania or something. And-- but they were all like, oh, gosh, man, I wish we had this thing, even though it was a fraction of the cost. And I realized-- this is a little bit of a tangent. But that's how I would frame it my own life is I feel like with time that the vintage, if you will, Porsche is going to grow.
So, yeah, drive the new one and see how it feels. And I think you'll probably just-- you'll know after that drive. It'll be pretty clear in your head, what you want to do. But I suspect you're going to land on the 997.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: My life advice to everyone out there--
GREG MIGLIORE: It's getting deep here.
JOHN BELTZ SNYDER: --who has-- wants to have a car that they're going to keep around for a while, go buy any car with a manual, go buy all the cars with a manual transmission and a turbocharger. Buy them all. Buy doubles and triples of them. Keep them and hold onto them, because they're fantastic. And so it's the-- that is the format that I am going to miss when EVs are-- have proliferated, and internal combustion go away. Manual turbo. Just save them. Save them all.
GREG MIGLIORE: I will not say anything else. That's perfect. That's the best way to end it.
If you enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star rating at Apple Podcasts. [INAUDIBLE] spend my money. That's podcast@autoblog.com. Blake, Sandra, please let us know what you end up doing. Everybody, be safe out there, and we'll see you next week.
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